Declassified files: The end of conspiracy

[kokain]

If all of the gov files from the 1940’s are declassified, will this put an end to the Philadelphia Experiment debate? 1980’s- Project Montauk
What about the millions of government cover-ups on UFO’s?
I think there will still be claims about a government cover-up to cover-up the government cover-ups.
What if the documents revealed that all of the loons where right? We have been in contact with aliens for over 50 years and if you want to live on Mars all you have to do is buy a ticket.

Just remember: Mars ain’t the kind of place to raise your kids.

 

[russ_watters]

There is no Philadelphia Experiment debate.

And that's exactly the point: conspiracy theory is an entity unto itself. It doesn't matter how open or closed a government is, it will always exist.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

There was no Phili experiment and that subject is banned here.

As for UFOs, were it true that we have been or are being visited, it would certainly be one of the most important, if not the most important revelation in human history.

One reason that the UFO phenomenon doesn't go away is that people claim to see them every day.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I think the Iran '76 documents show that whatever is going on, the government isn't hiding the information.
http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/ufo00020.pdf

...as opposed to this document, which seems to be protecting information.
http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/ufo00013.pdf

From what I can tell, the only information hidden is that critical to US security, and private information about individuals. But then again, many of those "loons" making claims are former military and intelligence personnel who claim to have direct knowledge of specific events, and at times, high ranking people who would be believed in almost any other context; as in the case of Admiral Lord Hill-Norton; Former chief of the British Defense Staff, and former Chairman of the NATO miltitary committee, who says this:

I have no doubt that something landed at this U.S. Air Force base [Bentwaters] and I have no doubt that it has got the people concerned into a considerable state. The Ministry of Defense has doggedly stuck to it's normal line, that nothing of defense interest took place. Either large numbers of people , including the commanding general at Bentwaters,were hallucinating, and for an American Air Force nuclear base , this is extremely dangerous - or what they say did happen.
In either of these circumstances, there can be only one answer - that it was of extreme defense interest to the U.K."

[the Bentwaters case: http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/foi/ufo/dep_ba1.pdf
the full(?) set of the Ministry of Defense files are also linked in the UFO Napster stickied at the top of the main page]

"I have frequently been asked why a person of my background—a former Chief of the Defense Staff, a former Chairman of the NATO Military Committee—why I think there is a cover-up [of] the facts about UFOs. I believe governments fear that if they did disclose those facts, people would panic. I don’t believe that at all. There is a serious possibility that we are being visited by people from outer space. It behooves us to find out who they are, where they come from, and what they want."

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Also, there is the Brookings Report to consider.
http://www.anomalies.net/brookings/brookings_summary.pdf

...The Brookings report discusses a number of topics related to space travel, but is perhaps most frequently cited in regards to its conclusions regarding extraterrestrial life. The relevant portion notes that while direct contact with extraterrestrials is unlikely,

"Evidences of its existence might also be found in artifacts left on the moon or other planets. The consequences for attitudes and values are unpredictable, but would vary profoundly in different cultures and between groups within complex societies; a crucial factor would be the nature of the communication between us and the other beings. Whether or not Earth would be inspired to an all-out space effort by such a discovery is moot: societies sure of their own place in the universe have disintegrated when confronted by a superior society, and others have survived even though changed. Clearly, the better we can come to understand the factors involved in responding to such crises the better prepared we may be."[1]

Curiously, the report also suggests that both scientists and religious fundamentalists might have their paradigms most altered by the verification of extraterrestrial life.

While not directly suggesting a cover up of evidence, the Brookings Report does suggest that contact with extraterrestrials (or strong evidence of their reality) could have a somewhat disruptive effect on humanity. Some ufologists and conspiracy theorists have suggested that the Brookings Reports' conclusions offers a motive for government officials to suppress evidence of extraterrestrial life, should it ever be discovered. This perhaps more sensationalistic interpretation of the Brookings Report may have been influenced by contemporary mass media coverage; a 1960 New York Times story on the subject had a headline reading "Mankind is Warned to Prepare For Discovery of Life in Space: Brookings Institution Report Says Earth's Civilization Might Topple if Faced by a Race of Superior Beings"[2]

The Brookings Report briefly considers the possibility of keeping some information from the public, but otherwise does not suggest a cover up of any sort. Moreover, the report is some 45 years old, raising the possibility that most of the suggestions and conclusions are no longer relevant. This is due primarily to the instant information exchange via the internet and mass media, which has dramatically changed the knowledge base, sophistication, and attitudes of the general public since the report was written. How widely the report's conclusions were considered and/or applied by the U.S. government may remain an open question.[continued]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookings_Report

 

[russ_watters]

A more interesting question would be the opposite question: does a culture of openness and freedom foster conspiracy theory?

AFAIK, conspiracy theory is a uniquely American phenomena. And America is also unique in its peoples' passion for their freedom. I think the two phenomena are related.

 

[D H]

A more interesting question would be the opposite question: does a culture of openness and freedom foster conspiracy theory?

Interesting hypothesis. Corruption/conspiracy is widespread in most countries of the world and has occurred in all countries. The fear of corruption/conspiracy is universal. People don't talked about it openly where it is rampant (they will come and get you). Since we can talk about it, we do, and some see it where it doesn't exist.

 

[kokain]

Why is the Philadelphia experiment banned? You say there was no Philadelphia experiment like you were there. I am not saying the boat vanished or anything, I am just saying there may have been a ship with high power coils hooked to it, let alone the existence of a project for radar invisibility. Definitely not out of the question. Whatever. Let’s talk about UFO's! That is way more scientifically possible.

 

[setAI]

A more interesting question would be the opposite question: does a culture of openness and freedom foster conspiracy theory?

AFAIK, conspiracy theory is a uniquely American phenomena. And America is also unique in its peoples' passion for their freedom. I think the two phenomena are related.

check your European history- nobody touches the French- all that Templar Grail / secret masters of the world stuff started there

 

[russ_watters]

Why is the Philadelphia experiment banned? You say there was no Philadelphia experiment like you were there. I am not saying the boat vanished or anything, I am just saying there may have been a ship with high power coils hooked to it, let alone the existence of a project for radar invisibility. Definitely not out of the question. Whatever. Let’s talk about UFO's! That is way more scientifically possible.

The issue is relatively clear-cut and therefore there isn't anything to discuss - all you need to know you can find on Google (or in the previous threads that are linked in the Guidelines). Allowing such discussion fosters/attracts crackpottery and we do not want to do that here. Yes, I understand that people with a real desire to learn won't get the chance, but the harm of fostering crackpottery far outweighs the harm of not being able to help a few people who legitimately want to know about it. We know this from experience, which is how subjects come to be banned.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yes, the Philadelphia experiment has been so thoroughly debunked that in the absence of even compelling anecdotal evidence, there is is no legitimate case to be made. In the case of UFOs we have official military and government files from about a dozen agencies [NSA. CIA, FBI, DOD, USAF, MOD and others], we also have photographic evidence, videos, RADAR data, radiation data, official investigations under three separate government projects [one of which - project Sign - concluded that some UFOs are likely crafts flown by ETs], and many orders of magnitude more human testimony by highly credible witnesses. Also, the subject has a following of qualified scientists with a few of particular note. Finally, to review the UFO phenomenon is not to automatically suggest that any are crafts flown by aliens. Many observations of natural and interesting phenomena, such as ball lighting and earthlights, have been filed as UFO reports in the past.

In the case of the Philadelphia experiment, we have the specific claim that a ship disappeared and appeared somewhere else…etc etc etc, due to a secret experiment. But in the end we only have the single source for this story - Carlos Miguel Allende - whose story is corroborated by hearsay which originated with two drunk sailors. The invisibility experiments refer to efforts to make ships less visible at sea by using various colors of paint and different patterns. The large coils often mentioned were for degaussing the ship to help protect it from magnetically sensitive mines. Also, the records and former crew indicate that the USS Eldridge was never in Philadelphia.

If anyone feels that they have new or compelling evidence to suggest that anything interesting happened, please send me a private message and I will look into it.