- #1
- 8,143
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http://www.thesandiegochannel.com/news/3292542/detail.html
Note: Slides and a Real Player video
Last edited by a moderator:
Mexican Air Force Pilots Videotape UFOs
In summary, the Mexican Air Force was on a routine patrol looking for drug-related aircraft when they intercepted something far more exotic. The objects picked up by their infrared imaging system and radar were initially thought to be UFOs, but they have since been identified as a group of weather balloons by a group of Mexican scientists. However, some experts believe that these objects could be part of a squadron of new stealth strike aircraft operated by the US. In addition, there have been similar sightings in North and South Korea, possibly indicating a US presence in the area. Another recent UFO sighting in Utah may have been a classified aircraft using a pulsejet engine.
http://www.thesandiegochannel.com/news/3292542/detail.html
Note: Slides and a Real Player video
- #2
suyver
- 248
- 0
It's even on CNN (so it must be true... ;-)
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/05/11/mexico.ufos.ap/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/05/11/mexico.ufos.ap/index.html
Last edited by a moderator:
- #3
megashawn
Science Advisor
- 451
- 0
Interesting. Could this mean the aliens are importing space drugs?
- #4
- 8,143
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No, but these are illegal aliens.
- #5
mouseonmoon
one detailed report-excellent-from Mexico
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m11-011.shtml
====================
check out Bruce Maccabee:
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m12-004.shtml
quote:In the Mexico case the objects were picked up by an infrared
imaging system that is like a TV system, but which is sensitive
to the spectral range of 3,000 to 5,000 nm (3 - 5 micron range).
This is beyond the spectral range of any infrared film, so if,
within the last 57 years, there had been an infrared radiating
UFO that was just "passing by" as someone took a picture using
an ordinary camera, the UFO would not have been seen nor would
it have been detected on film (not even on infrared film).
=================
and for detailed 'reports/discussions/latest news(above from here)
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/latest/
'regular news':
Source: ABC NewsOnline:Reuters source
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1106371.htm
05-12-04
Associated Press:
www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040511.wufos0511/BNStory/Front/[/URL]
“I couldn't say what it was ... but I think they're completely real,” added Lt. Mario Adrian Vazquez, the infrared equipment operator.
Lt. Vazquez insisted there was no way to alter the recorded images.
----------------
Reuters:
[url]www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5109891[/url]
--------------
Source: CTV Canada
[PLAIN]http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1084326182029_16/?hub=SciTech
05-11-04
Mexican UFO Sighting No Big Deal: Analyst
Ha!
=============
Santiago Yturria
Mexico
TECHNICAL DATA
DATE: March 5, 2004
TIME: 17:00 PM to 17:30 pm
EVENT: On Comision
LOCATION: Aerial Space Ciudad del Carmen, Campeche Mexico at
10,500 Fts.
COORDINATES: LAT N 18=B0 26.60=B4 : LON W 90=B0 45.69=B4
SENSOR EQUIPMENT: FLIR STAR ZAFIRO II
RADAR AN/PS 143 BRAVO VICTOR 3
DETECTION RATIO: 50 miles
FLIR RANGE: - 40=B0C till more than 1,500=B0C
CAMERA LENS: GERMANIO
AIRPLANE: Merlin C26A Bimotor
OFFICERS
Navigation Captain: Magdaleno Jasso Nu=F1ez
FLIR Operator: Lt. Mario Adrian Vasquez
RADAR Operator: Lt. German Ramirez
Members of the 501 Aerial Squadron
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m11-011.shtml
====================
check out Bruce Maccabee:
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m12-004.shtml
quote:In the Mexico case the objects were picked up by an infrared
imaging system that is like a TV system, but which is sensitive
to the spectral range of 3,000 to 5,000 nm (3 - 5 micron range).
This is beyond the spectral range of any infrared film, so if,
within the last 57 years, there had been an infrared radiating
UFO that was just "passing by" as someone took a picture using
an ordinary camera, the UFO would not have been seen nor would
it have been detected on film (not even on infrared film).
=================
and for detailed 'reports/discussions/latest news(above from here)
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/latest/
'regular news':
Source: ABC NewsOnline:Reuters source
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1106371.htm
05-12-04
Associated Press:
www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040511.wufos0511/BNStory/Front/[/URL]
“I couldn't say what it was ... but I think they're completely real,” added Lt. Mario Adrian Vazquez, the infrared equipment operator.
Lt. Vazquez insisted there was no way to alter the recorded images.
----------------
Reuters:
[url]www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5109891[/url]
--------------
Source: CTV Canada
[PLAIN]http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1084326182029_16/?hub=SciTech
05-11-04
Mexican UFO Sighting No Big Deal: Analyst
Ha!
=============
Santiago Yturria
Mexico
TECHNICAL DATA
DATE: March 5, 2004
TIME: 17:00 PM to 17:30 pm
EVENT: On Comision
LOCATION: Aerial Space Ciudad del Carmen, Campeche Mexico at
10,500 Fts.
COORDINATES: LAT N 18=B0 26.60=B4 : LON W 90=B0 45.69=B4
SENSOR EQUIPMENT: FLIR STAR ZAFIRO II
RADAR AN/PS 143 BRAVO VICTOR 3
DETECTION RATIO: 50 miles
FLIR RANGE: - 40=B0C till more than 1,500=B0C
CAMERA LENS: GERMANIO
AIRPLANE: Merlin C26A Bimotor
OFFICERS
Navigation Captain: Magdaleno Jasso Nu=F1ez
FLIR Operator: Lt. Mario Adrian Vasquez
RADAR Operator: Lt. German Ramirez
Members of the 501 Aerial Squadron
Last edited by a moderator:
- #6
- 8,143
- 1,762
Another excellent post by the Mouse. 
- #7
mouseonmoon
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m13-019.shtml
The videos showing strange objects picked up by military
aircraft were turned over to Jaime Maussan because he is a
person "who has been interested all of his life" in the study of
said phenomena, and was not given to scientists from
institutions of higher learning "perhaps because we do not know
them or know who they might be," according to General Gerardo
Clemente Vega Garcia, Secretary of Defense.
Source: Fundacion Cosmos AC and Milenio de Monterrey
Date: May 12, 2004
In an interview with the "Hoy por Hoy" radio show hosted by
Carlos Loret de Mola, Vega Gacia
Subject: Why Mexican Scientists Did Not Get UFO Evidenece
Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m13-016.shtml
The Sociedad Astronomica Urania of the state of Morelos said
that the video presented by the Mexican Air Force could have a
scientific explanation if we consider that given the shape and
displacement of the 14 objects filmed, these appear to be a
group of weather balloons, such as the thousands launched daily
from universities, research centers or airports.
The astronomica society claimed that this type of obejct is
frequently confused by commercial or military pilots with UFOs
given the strong air currents that convey them and the lack of
references which would enable to determine their distance and
size.
INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
May 13, 2004 Scott Corrales Translation
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
=======
already 'written off' as balloons by 'experts'!
Kinda interesting that it was given to Maussan...
there's a 2 hour show on this Sunday in Mexico-
interviews etc...
As Maccabee points out in one of his 'responses',
at 2 miles away they should have been seen by
the naked eye if they were solid objects reflecting
light? ----and then only 3 of the objects were 'seen'
by the radar?
This is extremely 'wierd'--and then the very unusual
'flight' of the ufos? They (2) fly away,come back as a
group and follow the plane,then 'circle' the plane...
'Natural phenomena'? 'Looks' like 'magic'?
Or maybe helicopters at Waterloo?
The videos showing strange objects picked up by military
aircraft were turned over to Jaime Maussan because he is a
person "who has been interested all of his life" in the study of
said phenomena, and was not given to scientists from
institutions of higher learning "perhaps because we do not know
them or know who they might be," according to General Gerardo
Clemente Vega Garcia, Secretary of Defense.
Source: Fundacion Cosmos AC and Milenio de Monterrey
Date: May 12, 2004
In an interview with the "Hoy por Hoy" radio show hosted by
Carlos Loret de Mola, Vega Gacia
Subject: Why Mexican Scientists Did Not Get UFO Evidenece
Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m13-016.shtml
The Sociedad Astronomica Urania of the state of Morelos said
that the video presented by the Mexican Air Force could have a
scientific explanation if we consider that given the shape and
displacement of the 14 objects filmed, these appear to be a
group of weather balloons, such as the thousands launched daily
from universities, research centers or airports.
The astronomica society claimed that this type of obejct is
frequently confused by commercial or military pilots with UFOs
given the strong air currents that convey them and the lack of
references which would enable to determine their distance and
size.
INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
May 13, 2004 Scott Corrales Translation
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
=======
already 'written off' as balloons by 'experts'!
Kinda interesting that it was given to Maussan...
there's a 2 hour show on this Sunday in Mexico-
interviews etc...
As Maccabee points out in one of his 'responses',
at 2 miles away they should have been seen by
the naked eye if they were solid objects reflecting
light? ----and then only 3 of the objects were 'seen'
by the radar?
This is extremely 'wierd'--and then the very unusual
'flight' of the ufos? They (2) fly away,come back as a
group and follow the plane,then 'circle' the plane...
'Natural phenomena'? 'Looks' like 'magic'?
Or maybe helicopters at Waterloo?
- #8
aychamo
- 375
- 0
Weird... Be nice to see what develpos :)
- #9
chief
- 51
- 0
mexico has an air force? this has to be fake...
this has to be fake... - #10
mouseonmoon
very interesting article:
Source: Newsmax.com
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/13/91044.shtml
05-14-04
UFOs Gone Wild
Charles R. Smith
The unidentified aircraft that shadowed the
Mexican surveillance plane are reportedly part of a squadron of
new stealth strike craft operating from the U.S.
The aircraft are equipped with special infrared light panels
that are only visible to special cameras or night vision gear.
The panels are used in formation flying outside of hostile
airspace to prevent the aircraft from colliding with each other
or with support aircraft such as refueling planes. The panels
are especially handy during aerial refueling with U.S.A.F.
tankers, allowing the tanker operators to visually monitor the
stealth planes in total darkness.
Both North and South Korean sources have recently reported
similar UFO- like aircraft in the skies of Asia. The sightings
are almost identical to the reports filed by the Mexican Air
Force.
The North Korean official media outlet recently announced that
U.S. spy aircraft had violated the DPRK airspace over 200 times.
A South Korean intelligence official has told the country's Chosun
Ilbo newspaper that American intelligence has identified ten
ballistic missiles and mobile launching pads at two locations...
and furthermore
Utah Donuts
In addition, the recent UFO sighting in Mexico came within days
of a report of a classified aircraft powered by an impulse type
engine flying over Utah. The aircraft left a distinctive
"donuts-on-a-rope" contrail in a flight over the Utah Wasatch
Mountains.
The March 21st sighting of the pulser jet showed that a
conventional chase plane shadowed the classified aircraft, which
left a smooth, unbroken, contrail. A mechanical engineer from
Salt Lake City photographed the contrasting exhaust plumes.
A pulsejet engine was used during World War II by the German V-1
Buzz bomb...
===============
Solved?
We're 'playing games' with Mexican AF?
Source: Newsmax.com
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/13/91044.shtml
05-14-04
UFOs Gone Wild
Charles R. Smith
The unidentified aircraft that shadowed the
Mexican surveillance plane are reportedly part of a squadron of
new stealth strike craft operating from the U.S.
The aircraft are equipped with special infrared light panels
that are only visible to special cameras or night vision gear.
The panels are used in formation flying outside of hostile
airspace to prevent the aircraft from colliding with each other
or with support aircraft such as refueling planes. The panels
are especially handy during aerial refueling with U.S.A.F.
tankers, allowing the tanker operators to visually monitor the
stealth planes in total darkness.
Both North and South Korean sources have recently reported
similar UFO- like aircraft in the skies of Asia. The sightings
are almost identical to the reports filed by the Mexican Air
Force.
The North Korean official media outlet recently announced that
U.S. spy aircraft had violated the DPRK airspace over 200 times.
A South Korean intelligence official has told the country's Chosun
Ilbo newspaper that American intelligence has identified ten
ballistic missiles and mobile launching pads at two locations...
and furthermore
Utah Donuts
In addition, the recent UFO sighting in Mexico came within days
of a report of a classified aircraft powered by an impulse type
engine flying over Utah. The aircraft left a distinctive
"donuts-on-a-rope" contrail in a flight over the Utah Wasatch
Mountains.
The March 21st sighting of the pulser jet showed that a
conventional chase plane shadowed the classified aircraft, which
left a smooth, unbroken, contrail. A mechanical engineer from
Salt Lake City photographed the contrasting exhaust plumes.
A pulsejet engine was used during World War II by the German V-1
Buzz bomb...
===============
Solved?
We're 'playing games' with Mexican AF?
- #11
danielg
- 17
- 0
- #12
username
- 226
- 2
smell something fishy somewhere can't put my finger on it
- #13
mouseonmoon
The "explanations" by scientists so far have been truly hilarious.
Meteors! Ball lightning! Plasma energy balls! Come on-for 31 minutes!
and Balloons! of course! 200 miles per hour (everything invisible to the naked eye)
Flying away from the plane-then returning with his buddies and surrounding the plane
keeping at 2 miles distance...
This was at 5pm in the afternoon--stealth aircraft are 'invisible' to radar--but should have been visible to the 16 human eyeballs !
Maybe they were 'hyp-mo-tized'!
btw Maccabee posts at virtuallystrange -great 'list'
==============
Re: above post:UFOs Gone Wild Mexico secret
Re:Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility -thread
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m16-035.shtml
((From "Sight Unseen" by Hopkins/Rainey. Page 61))
NASA's Jet Propulsion laboratory has proposed a sensor-and -
display system that would create an illusion of transparency
around almost any object. Whether an aircraft, a tank, or
perhaps a building, the objects would effectively be invisible.
Called "adaptive camouflage", these systems generate displays
that change in response to changing scenes and lighting
conditions.
This technological "magic" actually mimics nature's own
camouflage adaptation in which an animal's exterior color
gradually changes to blend in with the color and texture of its
environment.
=========
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m18-004.shtml
For what its worth, I have been aware of this technology for
over 15 years.
I first heard about it from, of all people, John Lear.
Considering the source, and the way it was described to me ("TV
cameras on the top of the plane and TV monitors covering the
bottom"), I regarded it with some suspicion, until the
technology was confirmed to me by a Rockwell engineer who had
worked on Senior Trend.
I have no idea what stage of development the technology was in
when I heard about it, but if we apply a generous development
curve of about 10 years from drawing board to fully operational,
it is conceivable that such planes are being deployed as we
speak in hotspots worldwide.
==JJS==
From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:53:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:54:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility
========
is the US in Mexican airspace? why not?
this is more 'likely' than ET-no?
And maybe there's more to this-propaganda war...
Meteors! Ball lightning! Plasma energy balls! Come on-for 31 minutes!
and Balloons! of course! 200 miles per hour (everything invisible to the naked eye)
Flying away from the plane-then returning with his buddies and surrounding the plane
keeping at 2 miles distance...
This was at 5pm in the afternoon--stealth aircraft are 'invisible' to radar--but should have been visible to the 16 human eyeballs !
Maybe they were 'hyp-mo-tized'!
btw Maccabee posts at virtuallystrange -great 'list'
==============
Re: above post:UFOs Gone Wild Mexico secret
Re:Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility -thread
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m16-035.shtml
((From "Sight Unseen" by Hopkins/Rainey. Page 61))
NASA's Jet Propulsion laboratory has proposed a sensor-and -
display system that would create an illusion of transparency
around almost any object. Whether an aircraft, a tank, or
perhaps a building, the objects would effectively be invisible.
Called "adaptive camouflage", these systems generate displays
that change in response to changing scenes and lighting
conditions.
This technological "magic" actually mimics nature's own
camouflage adaptation in which an animal's exterior color
gradually changes to blend in with the color and texture of its
environment.
=========
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m18-004.shtml
For what its worth, I have been aware of this technology for
over 15 years.
I first heard about it from, of all people, John Lear.
Considering the source, and the way it was described to me ("TV
cameras on the top of the plane and TV monitors covering the
bottom"), I regarded it with some suspicion, until the
technology was confirmed to me by a Rockwell engineer who had
worked on Senior Trend.
I have no idea what stage of development the technology was in
when I heard about it, but if we apply a generous development
curve of about 10 years from drawing board to fully operational,
it is conceivable that such planes are being deployed as we
speak in hotspots worldwide.
==JJS==
From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:53:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:54:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility
========
is the US in Mexican airspace? why not?
this is more 'likely' than ET-no?
And maybe there's more to this-propaganda war...
Last edited by a moderator:
- #14
- 8,143
- 1,762
"Ball Lightning Does Not Explain Facts"
Please see
http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=714&category=Environment
Personally, I have no opinion on any of this yet.
Please see
http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=714&category=Environment
Personally, I have no opinion on any of this yet.
- #15
BoulderHead
I've seen the video, very interesting!
- #16
- 8,143
- 1,762
Last edited:
- #17
mouseonmoon
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m20-001.shtml
Mexico's FLIR Rep On AF UFO Case
the FLIR representative for
Mexico, Mr. Gilberto Rocha, was interviewed by Jaime Maussan
regarding the images recorded by the FLIR STAR SAFIRE II aboard
the Mexican Air Force Merlin airplane during the March 5, 2004
incident over the Campeche area.
NOTE: The comments and opinions expresed by Mr. Gilberto Rocha
are his own, based on his experience and knowledge of the FLIR
STAR SAFIRE II operational functions and do not necesarely
represent FLIR Systems, Inc.'s opinion and points of view.
Question: Mr. Rocha, you just have reviewed some images recorded
by the Air Force during an anti-narcotics operation over
Campeche on March 5, 2004. What is your opinion about them?
Answer: These are interesting images because they are not
common. I will try to explain myself...
...represent round-shaped objects that
cannot be compared to any known object ...
Question: Could these have been any kind of conventional
aircraft?
Answer. No, because conventional aircraft have very well defined
temperature in their turbines and in front where friction is
registered, therefore they could not be seen as rounded lights.
-------
Question: If these objects are not any known aircraft what do
you think they are?
Answer: In the strict sense of the word, avoiding any distortion
or confusion, these are objects that fly and we can not identify.
====
gosh...kinda wierd...ya mean they aint't meteors,ball lighting, balloons, pelicans, helicopeters, Venus,stealth fighters from USA etc!
yeah, we don't know what they are,didn't really 'threaten' anybody so what the heck...who cares?
Mexico's FLIR Rep On AF UFO Case
the FLIR representative for
Mexico, Mr. Gilberto Rocha, was interviewed by Jaime Maussan
regarding the images recorded by the FLIR STAR SAFIRE II aboard
the Mexican Air Force Merlin airplane during the March 5, 2004
incident over the Campeche area.
NOTE: The comments and opinions expresed by Mr. Gilberto Rocha
are his own, based on his experience and knowledge of the FLIR
STAR SAFIRE II operational functions and do not necesarely
represent FLIR Systems, Inc.'s opinion and points of view.
Question: Mr. Rocha, you just have reviewed some images recorded
by the Air Force during an anti-narcotics operation over
Campeche on March 5, 2004. What is your opinion about them?
Answer: These are interesting images because they are not
common. I will try to explain myself...
...represent round-shaped objects that
cannot be compared to any known object ...
Question: Could these have been any kind of conventional
aircraft?
Answer. No, because conventional aircraft have very well defined
temperature in their turbines and in front where friction is
registered, therefore they could not be seen as rounded lights.
-------
Question: If these objects are not any known aircraft what do
you think they are?
Answer: In the strict sense of the word, avoiding any distortion
or confusion, these are objects that fly and we can not identify.
====
gosh...kinda wierd...ya mean they aint't meteors,ball lighting, balloons, pelicans, helicopeters, Venus,stealth fighters from USA etc!
yeah, we don't know what they are,didn't really 'threaten' anybody so what the heck...who cares?
- #18
BoulderHead
I think this is interesting because of the source it comes from, which I don't really see being questioned. Many people have doubted such things actually happen, questioned the source, and so on. Now something like this comes to light and I detect a small change taking place, because while whatever may have caused this remains a mystery, there seems little mystery that the event took place. Good to keep an open mind and withold judgement sometimes.
- #19
aychamo
- 375
- 0
So what's up with this, guys? It's videotape of stuff moving that people saw, which we can't explain.??
- #20
russ_watters
Mentor
- 23,522
- 10,865
The objects are so bright that they are not well-defined. So it looks to me like a stream of small, hot objects. Sounds like flares to me.
But it still could be balloons reflecting sunlight: ever have a digital camera focus on a dark area, then take a picture with a bright light in it? It looks pretty much the same.
If they were, in fact, moving fast, then satellite debris could be a reasonable explanation.
In an case...
But it still could be balloons reflecting sunlight: ever have a digital camera focus on a dark area, then take a picture with a bright light in it? It looks pretty much the same.
If they were, in fact, moving fast, then satellite debris could be a reasonable explanation.
In an case...
Ha? It is the default position in science to assume a mundane explanation unless some compelling evidence can be presented to the contrary. Jumping to the "aliens" conclusion is not warranted here.
Last edited:
- #21
mouseonmoon
RUSS:
" Sounds like flares to me."
But it still could be balloons reflecting sunlight...
... satellite debris could be a reasonable explanation.
Ha! Ha? It is the default position in science to assume a mundane explanation unless some compelling evidence can be presented to the contrary. Jumping to the "aliens" conclusion is not warranted here.
========
"Sounds like flares"?
and you're suggesting the "default position in science" here...
"The objects are so bright that they are not well-defined."
((infa-red FLIR imaging doesn't "see objects"=it 'sees heat'))
Hard to believe ; and who, in fact, 'jumped' "to the "aliens" conclusion"??
What are the facts/evidence supporting "flares" and "balloons" or 'pelicans'?
We've already heard these 'explanations'--without one iota of 'scientific evidence'
to support these 'mundane explanations'...for crying out loud, the Mexican Air Force
investigated the event and has "no explanation"...the FLIR expert cannot identify
the 'heat signatures'...
anyway, at this point they're still 'unknowns'...there's no need to call them
'Flying Saucers' piloted by Elvis or Angels, anymore than calling them 'butterflies'.
Who knows what they are? and That's the point Sir, believe it or not,
there are folks who actually want to figure out what 'really happened'.
Can you demonstrate 'flares flying' 200+mph and circling a plane? Have balloons
ever done this before?
Whatever happened, it wasn't mundane, (and hard to believe this event was 'hoaxed').
Perhaps the Mexican AF doesn't 'understand' the equipment they're using?
Dr. Bruce Maccabee received all info released by officials-there
is a two minute gap in the FLIR recording?-and he suggested an
'experiment' to refly over the area and discount the 'theory' that
flames from oil-well fires in the gulf could be the 'cause' of the
lights...this suggestion doesn't seem to hold up from the 'evidence'
of the tape and so far no info on whether this 'experiment' was tried.
" Sounds like flares to me."
But it still could be balloons reflecting sunlight...
... satellite debris could be a reasonable explanation.
Ha! Ha? It is the default position in science to assume a mundane explanation unless some compelling evidence can be presented to the contrary. Jumping to the "aliens" conclusion is not warranted here.
========
"Sounds like flares"?
and you're suggesting the "default position in science" here...
"The objects are so bright that they are not well-defined."
((infa-red FLIR imaging doesn't "see objects"=it 'sees heat'))
Hard to believe ; and who, in fact, 'jumped' "to the "aliens" conclusion"??
What are the facts/evidence supporting "flares" and "balloons" or 'pelicans'?
We've already heard these 'explanations'--without one iota of 'scientific evidence'
to support these 'mundane explanations'...for crying out loud, the Mexican Air Force
investigated the event and has "no explanation"...the FLIR expert cannot identify
the 'heat signatures'...
anyway, at this point they're still 'unknowns'...there's no need to call them
'Flying Saucers' piloted by Elvis or Angels, anymore than calling them 'butterflies'.
Who knows what they are? and That's the point Sir, believe it or not,
there are folks who actually want to figure out what 'really happened'.
Can you demonstrate 'flares flying' 200+mph and circling a plane? Have balloons
ever done this before?
Whatever happened, it wasn't mundane, (and hard to believe this event was 'hoaxed').
Perhaps the Mexican AF doesn't 'understand' the equipment they're using?
Dr. Bruce Maccabee received all info released by officials-there
is a two minute gap in the FLIR recording?-and he suggested an
'experiment' to refly over the area and discount the 'theory' that
flames from oil-well fires in the gulf could be the 'cause' of the
lights...this suggestion doesn't seem to hold up from the 'evidence'
of the tape and so far no info on whether this 'experiment' was tried.
- #22
rgoudie
- 33
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russ_watters said:
Then instead of listening, try viewing the videos.
-Ray.
- #23
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russ_watters said:
How about no conclusions? I don't see enough evidence to make any determinatation yet. Maybe with analysis the field of options can be reduced.
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mouseonmoon
The conclusion?
here's agreat in depth 'investigation' by a true skeptic!
it's long, it's 'hard'...
no 'sounds like flares', 'looks like pelicans' stuff
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don't miss this 'report'- four stars-excellent
oh yeah,forgot to mention the conclusion ...hey,do your own research
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and btw, this should likely be added to skeptic napster above--haven't had the time to to review it yet, but sure to be a worthwhile 'critic'.
UFOs: A Skeptical View
http://members.aol.com/tprinty/UFO.html
Tim Printy
here's agreat in depth 'investigation' by a true skeptic!
it's long, it's 'hard'...
no 'sounds like flares', 'looks like pelicans' stuff
-----
-----
-------
don't miss this 'report'- four stars-excellent
oh yeah,forgot to mention the conclusion ...hey,do your own research
=====
and btw, this should likely be added to skeptic napster above--haven't had the time to to review it yet, but sure to be a worthwhile 'critic'.
UFOs: A Skeptical View
http://members.aol.com/tprinty/UFO.html
Tim Printy
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- #25
Gza
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They seemed like camera artifacts. The light spots never seemed to disappear behind clouds or any other foreground objects.
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K.J.Healey
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aychamo said:
Actually :"These UFOs were captured on radar and by the FLIR gear. However, they were never seen by the aircrew despite having been two miles distant from the aircraft at one point. "
So the pilots only "saw" them by monitoring through extra equipment.
I don't know where I stand, but I'm fairly closeminded about aliens (I believe its probable that there exists like on other planets, but highly improbably that any have visited earth.)
- #27
russ_watters
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Ivan, mouseonmoon, I had a bunch of possibilities listed, but where would you get the idea that I had reached a conclusion? If I had a conclusion, I would have listed one conclusion, not a number of possibilities. The closest thing you could get to a conclusion from me is that there is probably (likely) a mundane explanation for this.Ivan Seeking said:
I've been mocked in this thread by people trying to call the kettle black, when in actuality only the pot is black here: the reason so-called "UFOologists" are "investigating" this is that they are hoping to find a non-mundane explanation, ie. ETUFOs.
Ivan, you wonder why I don't give the benefit of the doubt to the "I Want To Believe" crowd - this thread is a perfect illustration of why. Until I see some real skepticism, scientific thought, assumptions of mundane explanations, I will continue to dismiss these thinly veiled claims because of the people who make them. And no, I don't consider that an unreasonable ad hominem approach. They've earned it.
As an aside, mouseonmoon - that quote that slowly morphed into something I didn't say is the worst type of deceit: by misquoting me, you are, in effect, lying twice. You want to be taken seriously? Stop lying.
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- #28
mouseonmoon
Russ, the 'quote' is actually from 'every debunker' on this 'subject' so far...since Arnold's sighting ((it ain't personal-geez!))
'flares,peligans,balloons etc' is the simply what the 'choir' sings=and if you checked out Tim Printy (a true skeptic) you'll see this 'knee-jerk' reaction repeated in this case by 'experts' who never looked at the 'evidence'--from
UFOOlogists,Debunkers and 'scientists'...
After 3 months 'study' of this event, how can you expect "to be taken serioulsy" by suggesting "flares" at this 'juncture'? honestly, it's ludicrous.
As Ivan reinterated/interpreted my position,"How about no conclusions?..."
and why make the assumption that everyone who sees a UFO report as a UFO
report 'believes aliens are here'? If it's 'unidentified' it's 'unknown';and until 'you' (whoever) can 'prove' it's 'mundane' it's NOT!
If you believe every UFO has a mundane explanation-what you've got is a 'belief'...i'd like to find the 'real explanation' among those with an 'open mind' and a sense of mystery and humor-these are discussions in a pub-not a court
cheers! here's to BigFoot!
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russ_watters said:
Then we agree.
I never said anything about the I want to believe crowd. Are these friends of yours?
You can always chose to consider the least credible of any effort.
- #30
russ_watters
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No, I mean from past discussions we've had on the subject, Ivan. You've said in the past I don't give enough consideration to non-mundane possibilities.Ivan Seeking said:
I guess, Ivan, but I have a low tolerance for B.S. The reason I don't give them consideration is the same reason the USPTO refuses to consider perpetual motion machine claims. That crowd has proven (in the USPTO's opinion) they are unworthy of consideration.
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- #31
russ_watters
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Perhaps you misunderstood. This is what I am referring to:mouseonmoon said:
The part on the left is a direct quote, the part on the right is not - but the implication is that its something I said. That's deceitful - not to mention mean-spirited, since the reason you did it is ridicule.
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mee
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russ_watters said:
I think UFO's are possible because one day I saw three of them. I do not necessarily want them to be aliens. If they are aliens, perhaps it is good because they haven't shown themselves to be aggressive. But also, if some of these sightings are aliens, isn't anyone just the least bit scared?
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mee, I would love to hear your story. What did you see? If this involves some detail please start a thread.
If it turns out that some UFOs have ETs inside you would be nuts to not fear them, IMO. Still, if they are here, then the anecdotal evidence suggests they probably have been for a very long time; like thousands of years. What's to fear?
If it turns out that some UFOs have ETs inside you would be nuts to not fear them, IMO. Still, if they are here, then the anecdotal evidence suggests they probably have been for a very long time; like thousands of years. What's to fear?
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Dayle Record
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The Mexican military guys were tracking a drug shipment, no one entertains for even a second that this wasn't just a sophisticated cyber ruse, played out to distract the Airmen from their task?
It has just been revealed that millions if not billions have been spent genetic engineering Coca Plants to be twelve feet tall and four times as potent. You can't tell me that there isn't the money around to invest in communications disruptions.
It has just been revealed that millions if not billions have been spent genetic engineering Coca Plants to be twelve feet tall and four times as potent. You can't tell me that there isn't the money around to invest in communications disruptions.
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FaverWillets
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Oh my...oh me oh my... the problems associated with even the simplest UFO sightings are near insumountable... witnessing something, most always at night where altitude, size and velocity are rarely relative to anything else to assist the person in making a valid set of estimates makes educated conclusions impossible to reach... the damned things are most often reported as flying, "very high, very fast, and always QUIET" ... speculation IMMEDIATELY runs crazy under these observational conditions and then before you know it, another urban legend is born... little green men, aliens, time travelers, visitors from deep space... none of these runaway conclusions are without problems... so, most of us LEAP to these "answers" in a desperate need to explain what was just seen... Occam's razor must be applied to MOST of these...for those where no explanation fits all the conditions (damned few would qualify to that extreme, I'd think) all we CAN conclude is that such sightings remain UNIDENTIFIED. Jeezzz Louise... the more outlandish the answer the more impossible the answer. This does not mean that research on this phenomenae must be abandoned...it probably means that we should want to establish a scientific base for continued investigation of UFOs somewhere up in Quebec though. "-) I have witnessed some unusual things in the night sky too and in my case always with another witness besides my doggies... we have NO CLUE about what we saw, and we are still scratching our heads over all four of them, even now, ten years later. I have NO conclusion, that's MY conclusion.mee said:
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