View Full Version : Why there's more matter than anti-matter?
MathematicalPhysicist
Oct1-09, 03:44 AM
What kind of theoretical explanations are there?
And can we prove any of them?
I mean this asymmetry is like the asymmetry in humans who write in their right hand rather than their left hand (I think that statistically there are more right hand writers), I don't think there's an explanation why most of us write in our right hand, or am I wrong in this assumption?
Bob_for_short
Oct1-09, 05:16 AM
Maybe because there is no C-invariance?
There is a theorem by Sakharov on this subject. You need at least three necessary conditions to be true in order for a universe to generate more matter than antimatter
1) CP violation.
2) Baryon number violation
3) Departures from thermal equilibrium.
We know that nature has cp violation, and we know that the third condition holds true based on current cosmological models.
The second condition is the hard one. Currently the standard model of physics, at least perturbatively conserves B so in order to explain the asymmetry a theory beyond the standard model is required.
Bob_for_short
Oct1-09, 04:58 PM
I would add
0) "Asymmetric" initial conditions,
4) Incrementing fluctuations (instabilities) in a non-equilibrium high energy medium.
There is a theorem by Sakharov on this subject. You need at least three necessary conditions to be true in order for a universe to generate more matter than antimatter
1) CP violation.
2) Baryon number violation
3) Departures from thermal equilibrium.
We know that nature has cp violation, and we know that the third condition holds true based on current cosmological models.
The second condition is the hard one. Currently the standard model of physics, at least perturbatively conserves B so in order to explain the asymmetry a theory beyond the standard model is required.
Actually, baryon number violation is the only Sakharov condition that the standard model can provide sufficiently. It does so through non-perturbative gauge configuration called Sphaelerons, which change B+L while conserving B-L.
While the standard model has CP violation, it doesn't have enough CP violation to create a baryon asymmetry as large as the universe actually has. And, standard model cosmology can't get far enough out of thermal equilibrium to create the asymmetry.
Cryptonic
Oct2-09, 06:41 AM
I mean this asymmetry is like the asymmetry in humans who write in their right hand rather than their left hand (I think that statistically there are more right hand writers), I don't think there's an explanation why most of us write in our right hand, or am I wrong in this assumption?
When I was in primary school students were scolded if they swapped hands when writing; they were forced to pick a hand and stick with it. Right hands were encouraged. I've always wondered what that was about. Is this practise still enforced?
Neither Sphaeleron production or the amount of CP violation is sufficient (well at least without positing extra structure) to generate the observed asymmetry. Sphaeleron production is ridiculously tiny, and the accidental symmetry of the standard model holds to a very high degree.
The actual numbers are dependent on a bunch of things, like cosmological parameters. In general, in Baryogenesis models you try to enhance both the B as well as CP violation substantially with GUT and thermal processes and that almost fits (actually you probably need a leptogenesis phase as well). There is a certain amount of model building freedom where you trade off between the quantities of the 3 conditions.
Cryptonic
Oct2-09, 02:30 PM
That's a good interesting answer, Haelfix, thanks! "Sphaleron" launched me into all kinds of interesting wiki-pages!
I'm wondering if heavy elements in the earth (uranium etc) are forged, not in our sun (too small), but in some much more massive/more ancient supernova explosion... I'm wondering why "Big Bang Theory" claims that the "Big Bang" only produced hydrogen and a bit of helium (maybe one or two random complex molecules)?
Surely, the "Big Bang", the very FONT of pure energy from which this cosmos is manufactured, would have been much more capable of creating heavier elements than mere insignificant SUPERNOVA fission/fusion explosions. Surely the "Big Bang" is the most explosive/high-energy phenomenon in existence, in which case ALL the elements would have formed right at the start!
Antimatter, however... Well when you look at Feynman diagrams you see the particle and its anti-particle bouncing away in opposite directions. In other words, if there IS an equal-quantity antimatter universe parallel to ours "out there", there must be some distance/dimension keeping us apart otherwise there would be fiery cosmic holocaust everywhere.
DaveC426913
Oct2-09, 03:17 PM
When I was in primary school students were scolded if they swapped hands when writing; they were forced to pick a hand and stick with it. Right hands were encouraged. I've always wondered what that was about. Is this practise still enforced?
According to Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handedness#Social_stigma_and_repression_of_left-handedness):
"Left-handedness is still strongly discouraged in some cultures. In the Maswai culture in Africa, "almost 90 percent of teachers and parents said that if children show a left-handed tendency they should be forced to change to right-handedness."
"Until very recently in Taiwan, left-handed people were strongly encouraged to switch to being right-handed, or at least switch to writing with the right hand. "
enotstrebor
Oct13-09, 10:26 AM
Neither Sphaeleron production or the amount of CP violation is sufficient (well at least without positing extra structure) to generate the observed asymmetry. Sphaeleron production is ridiculously tiny, and the accidental symmetry of the standard model holds to a very high degree.
....
There is a certain amount of model building freedom where you trade off between the quantities of the 3 conditions.
The bottom line is that there is no answer within the SM view. This is a fundamental problem for the SM (The Matter Only Universe).
There is another fundamental problem for the SM, the Cosmological Constant Problem, which indicates the solution to both problems.
If one looks at data, like the measured cosmological constant and look at what various views on the energy of symmetry breaking produces for the cosmological constant there is one obvious pattern
View 1) Planks - Cosmological constant off by 10^128
View 2) Electroweak - Cosmological constant off by 10^48
View 3) QCD - Cosmological constant off by 10^35
The lower the energy at which the symmetry is broken the lower the theoretical contribution to the cosmological constant. Thus the cosmological constant is not only saying the SM symmetry breaking mechanism is not the correct one, it is saying that the correct energy at which the symmetry is broken is near zero.
Therefore the symmetry breaking mechanism must one is a symmetrical up/down symmetry like charge is, so that the total, like charge. is 0.
This implies that there is a mass/up down symmetry. But the SM as it is today can not have any such symmetry breaking mechanism.
But a mass up/down symmetry also means that there can be a matter only mass creation process.
So two Fundamental Problems related to the DATA (no antimatter is found=> there must be a matter only creation process, cosmological constant value=> there must be a symmetric mass creation process=a matter only creation process) are both saying the same thing.
There is an answer, but it is not within the SM view (a view that the data says is wrong) and as such it can not be discussed on this forum.
There is a difference between fundamentally accurate and fundamentally correct.
This data is ignored because its saying the SM is only fundamentally accurate and there is a strong SM bias (bigotry?) that refuses to admit this.
Such a symmetry does exist that is in a peer review jounal, but not one that Vanadium 50considers good enough for you.
So thank Vanadium 50 for deciding which Physics Journals (in Yale University Library) are good enough for you and which ones are not.
If you go to Advanced Physics Forums, you can find the information their.
Enotstrebor
arivero
Oct13-09, 11:04 AM
View 1) Planks - Cosmological constant off by 10^128
View 2) Electroweak - Cosmological constant off by 10^48
View 3) QCD - Cosmological constant off by 10^35
This depends of the way you look at it.
According wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda-CDM_model
\Omega_{\Lambda}\simeq 0.74
and according http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant
"is measured to be on the order of 10−35 s−2, or
10^{-47} GeV^4"
But, 10^-47GeV^4 is a scale of 1.7 \times 10^{-3} eV.
A lot of people has noticed it, but first time I read it from Smolin in a blog comment: it is the neutrino scale. Kamland 2005 measured a delta of 8.8 10^-3 eV.
Dmitry67
Oct13-09, 02:43 PM
Weird idea: I dont believe that parameters of the Standard Model change it time... except... except the CP violation.
CP violation means T violation (consequence of the CPT theorem). So, we have very weak T violation now, 14 billion years after the BB. May be that type of violation is just fading away from the BB? Because T-assymetry actually defines a 'special' direction of time on the microscopic level, pointing to the BB or away from it (depending of a view)
Other observations are not answered definitively by known physics. According to the prevailing theory, a slight imbalance of matter over antimatter was present in the universe's creation, or developed very shortly thereafter, possibly due to the CP violation that has been observed by particle physicists. Although the matter and antimatter mostly annihilated one another, producing photons, a small residue of matter survived, giving the present matter-dominated universe. Several lines of evidence also suggest that a rapid cosmic inflation of the universe occurred very early in its history at Planck time (roughly 10−35 seconds after its creation).
In particle physics, CP violation is a violation of the postulated CP symmetry, the combination of C symmetry and P symmetry. CP symmetry states that the laws of physics should be the same if a particle were interchanged with its antiparticle (C symmetry, or charge conjugation symmetry), and left and right were swapped (P symmetry, or parity symmetry). The discovery of CP violation in 1964 in the decays of neutral kaons resulted in the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1980 for its discoverers James Cronin and Val Fitch.
It plays an important role both in the attempts of cosmology to explain the dominance of matter over antimatter in the present Universe, and in the study of weak interactions in particle physics.
The Big Bang should have produced equal amounts of matter and antimatter if CP symmetry was preserved; as such, there should have been total cancellation of both. In other words, protons should have cancelled with antiprotons, electrons with antielectrons, neutrons with antineutrons, and so on for all elementary particles. This would have resulted in a sea of photons in the universe with no matter. Since this is quite evidently not the case, after the Big Bang, physical laws must have acted differently for matter and antimatter, i.e. violating CP symmetry.
The Standard Model contains only two ways to break CP symmetry. The first of these, discussed above, is in the QCD Lagrangian, and has not been found experimentally; but one would expect this to lead to either no CP violation or a CP violation that is many, many orders of magnitude too large. The second of these, involving the weak force, has been experimentally verified, but can account for only a small portion of CP violation. It is predicted to be sufficient for a net mass of normal matter equivalent to only a single galaxy in the known universe.
Since the Standard Model does not accurately predict this discrepancy, it would seem that the current Standard Model has gaps (other than the obvious one of gravity and related matters) or physics is otherwise in error. Moreover, experiments to probe these CP-related gaps may require the practically impossible-to-obtain energies that may be necessary to probe the gravity-related gaps (see Planck mass).
Reference:
Universe - Universe genesis 'Big Bang' model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe#Big_Bang_model)
CP violation - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP_violation)
enotstrebor
Oct13-09, 08:47 PM
From CP violation - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP_violation)
"One of the unsolved theoretical questions in physics is why the universe is made chiefly of matter, rather than consisting of equal parts of matter and antimatter. ...
The second of these, involving the weak force, has been experimentally verified, but can account for only a small portion of CP violation. It is predicted to be sufficient for a net mass of normal matter equivalent to only a single galaxy in the known universe. ...
it would seem that the current Standard Model has gaps (other than the obvious one of gravity and related matters) or physics is otherwise in error."
Given the accepted problems like the Cosmological Constant Problem, the Gauge Invariance Problem (Nature's mass is gauge invariant but the SM massed formalism is not), and the accepted Renormalization Problem (Feynman - "A dipy process") and the unaccepted fundamental Renormalization Problem (If the model represents Nature, then how does Natures particle renomalize itself, ?mathematically? - mathematics is not physics), and other Fundamental problems, my bet is not that the physics is in error, but that the model is.
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