How Do You Pronounce Sophus Lie?

[Teegvin]

How is it pronounced?

The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman) says it is pronounced like "Fine-man".

This has been bugging me for some time.

 

[zoobyshoe]

How is it pronounced?
The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman) says it is pronounced like "Fine-man".
This has been bugging me for some time.

That tallies with everything I've read. FINEman, accent on the first syllable. Why is this bugging you? You think he pronounced it differently? Call Cal-Tech and ask how it's pronounced.

 

[Teegvin]

Why is this bugging you?

It's bugging me because I wouldn't read it that way, and could find nothing else on the internet concerning its pronunciation.

 

[rachmaninoff]

Say it out loud very loudly, a dozen or more times. Yell it at a friend or passerby. Then it'll be second nature, and you'll hear it correctly when you read it.

 

[Pengwuino]

Yah it doesn't look like how its spoken. When I originally saw it, i thought "fayn man"

 

[zoobyshoe]

It's bugging me because I wouldn't read it that way, and could find nothing else on the internet concerning its pronunciation.

I was unsure how it was pronounced when I first saw it as well, and I settled on FAYNman, until someone corrected me. I've read three biographies of him, and all concur that it's FINEman. Feynman is probably a poorly chosen spelling of the German/Yiddish Feinman.

 

[ZapperZ]

It's bugging me because I wouldn't read it that way, and could find nothing else on the internet concerning its pronunciation.

Then you might pop a vein when you realize that "Einstein", "Brillouin", etc. are not pronounced the way they are spelled.

Zz.

 

[EL]

You should now how funny english sounds if I would pronounce it like it is spelled...

 

[selfAdjoint]

How about Goethe?

In Chicago there is a Goethe Avenue; the locals pronounce it Go-eth. But then they have also a Devon Avenue, which they pronounce Dee-Von.

 

[ZapperZ]

How about Goethe?
In Chicago there is a Goethe Avenue; the locals pronounce it Go-eth. But then they have also a Devon Avenue, which they pronounce Dee-Von.

In Texas, there's "Houston" prounced as "Hius-ton". In NYC, there's Houston St, pronounced as "House-ton". That's how the New Yorkers can tell if you're an out-of-towner.

Zz.

 

[FredGarvin]

In Texas, there's "Houston" prounced as "Hius-ton". In NYC, there's Houston St, pronounced as "House-ton". That's how the New Yorkers can tell if you're an out-of-towner.
Zz.

The first level was pronouncing Houston St. properly. The second level was knowing what Soho stood for.

I always thought Einstein sounded just like it was spelled...

 

[ZapperZ]

The first level was pronouncing Houston St. properly. The second level was knowing what Soho stood for.

Or Tribeca, etc... But New Yorkers, especially those living in Manhattan, do pronouce it as "Hous-ton".

I always thought Einstein sounded just like it was spelled...

It's "Ein-Schtein".

Zz.

 

[michealsmith]

Diffirent People Pronounce It Difiirently (wish I Cud Spell)

 

[neutrino]

I always thought Einstein sounded just like it was spelled...

I think it's like Ein-shtein. I may be wrong, but that's how I heard it on a German TV channel we receive.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,,8495,00.html

(Don't forget to take part in the quiz and win an Einstein action figure! )

 

[neutrino]

It's "Ein-Schtein".
Zz.

Looks like I type too slow.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

I'm reading "Don't You Have Time To Think?" at the moment and in a letter from someone from his childhood the pronunciation of Feynman as "FINE-man" on a radio programme is mocked. However, there was no reply printed from the man himself. Make of that what you will.

 

[zoobyshoe]

It's "Ein-Schtein".

German speakers pronounce the second syllable as "shtine" but no one in the US or UK or Canada or Australia does. It's "stine" in all those places.

 

[ZapperZ]

German speakers pronounce the second syllable as "shtine" but no one in the US or UK or Canada or Australia does. It's "stine" in all those places.

That's besides the point. People bastardizes pronouciations all the time. It is how the person's name is pronouced either by his/her immediately family, or by him/herself that matters. Einstein spoke German, and grew up German. That is how his name was pronounced if one wants to be accurate.

Zz.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

I don't think it necessary to adopt a faux German accent every time you want to say a German name. In fact, I think it's a tad pretentious to do so.

 

[zoobyshoe]

That's besides the point. People bastardizes pronouciations all the time. It is how the person's name is pronouced either by his/her immediately family, or by him/herself that matters. Einstein spoke German, and grew up German. That is how his name was pronounced if one wants to be accurate.
Zz.

Matters of correct pronounciation aren't established that way in the uniquely ecclectic English language. It is a matter of the majority rules when it comes to pronounciation of any word. For English speaking peoples "stine" is correct. It is a bastardization, and it is not the way Einstein himself pronounced it, but it is how it happened to evolve. English is well known to be the least logical language there is. "Einstein" came into our language incorrectly, but "Mozart" did not.

 

[ZapperZ]

Matters of correct pronounciation aren't established that way in the uniquely ecclectic English language. It is a matter of the majority rules when it comes to pronounciation of any word. For English speaking peoples "stine" is correct. It is a bastardization, and it is not the way Einstein himself pronounced it, but it is how it happened to evolve. English is well known to be the least logical language there is. "Einstein" came into our language incorrectly, but "Mozart" did not.

I don't want to get into a debate on this, but notice that I never mentioned anything about being correct.

It is more of a matter of respect in trying to get the pronounciation accurate. I work with many people from all over the world, and regardless of how that person's name is spelled, I always ask how he or she WISH his/her name to be pronounced. I may not get it completely right, but I certainly don't want to be THAT far off.

You also don't want to hear loud snickering when you pronounce "Auger" the way it is spelled, no matter what the standard English pronounciation says.

Zz.

 

[Moonbear]

Matters of correct pronounciation aren't established that way in the uniquely ecclectic English language. It is a matter of the majority rules when it comes to pronounciation of any word.

I can't agree on that when it comes to people's names. Their name is their name, and we don't get to vote to change the pronunciation of it. It really makes me cringe when someone makes no attempt at all to correctly pronounce someone's name even after being told the correct pronunciation. It can be difficult, especially if it involves unfamiliar sounds not found in the English language, but it's always worth a best effort. As Zz said, it's something done out of respect to show you care enough to get their name right.

 

[Galileo]

It's "Ein-Schtein".

By the way. Do you guys know why Einstein could never build a wall?

...He only had 'ein stein'.


crawls back to the hole he came from

 

[zoobyshoe]

I can't agree on that when it comes to people's names. Their name is their name, and we don't get to vote to change the pronunciation of it.

In any case of a foreign pronounciation it boils down to how easy a pronounciation is to pick up on. Apparently the way it worked out for Einstein is that too many people balked at, as El Hombre Invisible pointed out, sounding like they were affecting a German accent. The fact is that the vast majority of English speakers have taken to pronouncing it more or less as it seems to be spelt. That being the case, "stine" and not "shtine" has become the "correct" i.e.standard, English pronounciation. Simply put, if you go around calling him "Einshtine" people are going to think you're affected, odd, or otherwise off. There's obviously no disrespect involved.

 

[ZapperZ]

In any case of a foreign pronounciation it boils down to how easy a pronounciation is to pick up on. Apparently the way it worked out for Einstein is that too many people balked at, as El Hombre Invisible pointed out, sounding like they were affecting a German accent. The fact is that the vast majority of English speakers have taken to pronouncing it more or less as it seems to be spelt. That being the case, "stine" and not "shtine" has become the "correct" i.e.standard, English pronounciation. Simply put, if you go around calling him "Einshtine" people are going to think you're affected, odd, or otherwise off. There's obviously no disrespect involved.

Sorry, that last part is not true.

I have presented MANY talks, and in my line of work involving photoemission and photocathodes, the name "Einstein" appeared many times in my presentation. I have never had people thinking that I'm "affected, odd, or otherwise off". In fact, on the contrary, I've even had a few members of the audience followed suit in pronoucing his name that way. And considering that the audience were made up of an international conglomerate of people, I have seen a few approving nods especially from those who do speak German.

The same is true with "Brillouin". While almost everyone here in the US pronounced it as "Bree-lou-in", I have always tried to pronounce it the way it should sound in French, even when I am illiterate in French. One of my thesis committee during my defense even complimented on the fact that I found out the "correct" way to pronounce Brillouin's name.

From my perspective, anyone who pronounced someone's name the way it should be pronounced shows that the person cared enough to make an effort and a sign of respect. I see nothing negative at all about this.

Zz.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Sorry, that last part is not true.
I have presented MANY talks, and in my line of work involving photoemission and photocathodes, the name "Einstein" appeared many times in my presentation. I have never had people thinking that I'm "affected, odd, or otherwise off".

You can't know what people were thinking, and there are precious few who would have the bad manners to comment if they did think it sounded affected, odd, or off. It would certainly strike me as one of those, simply because I had never heard a native English speaker pronounce it "shtine".

In fact, on the contrary, I've even had a few members of the audience followed suit in pronoucing his name that way.

For whatever reason, they were following your lead for the occasion. In the course of normal conversation English speakers don't pronounce it that way.

And considering that the audience were made up of an international conglomerate of people, I have seen a few approving nods especially from those who do speak German.

Yes, I'm sure it sounds better to German speakers. I think the French also pronounce it "shtine".

Feynman, however, pronounced it "Einstine."

 

[ZapperZ]

You can't know what people were thinking,

Then why brought it up in the first place? You were the one who were making about how people would react. I could tell you the same thing. I countered your argument by saying that based on MY personal experience, what you were speculating never happened.

And honestly, I am surprised that we're worried about other people's reaction in a case like this.

and there are precious few who would have the bad manners to comment if they did think it sounded affected, odd, or off. It would certainly strike me as one of those, simply because I had never heard a native English speaker pronounce it "shtine".

I have, and it was the first time I realized that I've been saying it all wrong. I've corrected myself ever since, and I know that my students now know how to properly pronounce not only Einstein, but a bunch of other names.

Feynman, however, pronounced it "Einstine."

Feynman also played drums, refused to write letter of recommendations for his students, and generally didn't care that much about what other people think of him. Do you think he'd care if other people look at him funny if he correctly pronounce Einstein's name? Hell no! So why not emulate THAT characteristics also?

Zz.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

As some midway point between the two of you, I strive to use the correct pronunciation of names (imagine my horror when I realized I'd been mispronouncing 'de Broglie' for years). However, you have to draw a line between getting the right pronunciation and mimicking someone's accent.

For instance, if I went to America and was talking in my English accent to an American named Bill about a conversation I'd been having with another American named "Bahb" (in English: Bob), Bill would be disconcerted by my lapse into an American accent for that one word alone, would assume I was taking the piss, and think I was a contemptful English twerp.

Likewise I wouldn't pronounce Einstein "ine-shtine" because I don't have a German accent. In fact, due to my English accent, even my corrected pronunciation of 'de Broglie' is different to how a Frenchman would say it.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Then why brought it up in the first place? You were the one who were making about how people would react. I could tell you the same thing. I countered your argument by saying that based on MY personal experience, what you were speculating never happened.
And honestly, I am surprised that we're worried about other people's reaction in a case like this.

We're not worried about other people's reactions. We're worried about whether it's correct to say "It's pronounced 'Einshtine'." It isn't. Not among English speakers. All those "stein" names have come into English as "stine": Bernstein, Weinstein, Frankenstein, Einstein, and all the other steins. To the extent anyone is thinking you're eccentric for pronouncing it "Einshtine" it is simply a measure of the fact it's pronounced "Einstine." I'm not encouraging you to worry about what other people think, but to face the fact that pronounciation boils down to "Majority Rules". This is just the way it is with language. It is no disrespect to him to pronounce it "Einstine." To the best of my knowledge he never complained about the way English speakers pronounce it.

I have, and it was the first time I realized that I've been saying it all wrong.

You were never saying it wrong. You know, our German and Swiss members pronounce your name as Tsappah Tsee. Maybe the British ones think of you as Zapper Zed. Ever heard a recording of Einstein? He pronounced English all wrong: "Ee eekvals em see skveered." There's nothing improper or disrespectful on any of their parts.

Feynman also played drums, refused to write letter of recommendations for his students, and generally didn't care that much about what other people think of him. Do you think he'd care if other people look at him funny if he correctly pronounce Einstein's name? Hell no! So why not emulate THAT characteristics also?
Zz.

As a matter of fact he has that story about how he mispronouced "Bernoulli". Once he found out he had it wrong, he corrected himself.

 

[zoobyshoe]

As some midway point between the two of you, I strive to use the correct pronunciation of names (imagine my horror when I realized I'd been mispronouncing 'de Broglie' for years). However, you have to draw a line between getting the right pronunciation and mimicking someone's accent. For instance, if I went to America and was talking in my English accent to an American named Bill about a conversation I'd been having with another American named "Bahb" (in English: Bob), Bill would be disconcerted by my lapse into an American accent for that one word alone, would assume I was taking the piss, and think I was a contemptful English twerp.
Likewise I wouldn't pronounce Einstein "ine-shtine" because I don't have a German accent. In fact, due to my English accent, even my corrected pronunciation of 'de Broglie' is different to how a Frenchman would say it.

I bet your pronounciation of your own username would be a treat for the ears of native Spanish speakers.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

I bet your pronounciation of your own username would be a treat for the ears of native Spanish speakers.

Good example. Talking of which, are you "zooby shoe" or "zooby's hoe"?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Good example. Talking of which, are you "zooby shoe" or "zooby's hoe"?

It would be a good time to make yourself invisible, hombre.
http://frazettaartgallery.com/ff/bio/1960/neanderthal.jpeg

 

[ZapperZ]

We're not worried about other people's reactions.

Correction. You were the one who said

"... Simply put, if you go around calling him "Einshtine" people are going to think you're affected, odd, or otherwise off."

What do you call that?

We're worried about whether it's correct to say "It's pronounced 'Einshtine'." It isn't. Not among English speakers.

I really don't care what is the "correct" pronounciation "among English speakers". I care about how that person wishes his or name to be pronounced. Period. Chinese names are notorious for not having the same pronounciation as the English spellings. Try pronoucing "Xhou" or "Xi" or "Zhou", or "Qiang", etc. Or what about the Vietnamese name "Nguyen"? You are going to tell me, that even when you are told what the proper pronounciation of these names are supposed to be, that you are STILL going to stubbornly stick to the English pronounciation from the way it is spelled?

If that isn't a sign of disrespect, I don't know what is.

Zz.

 

[fuzzyfelt]

If that isn't a sign of disrespect, I don't know what is.

Zz.

It can also be funny. I saw an interview once with Colin Powell, where he said something to the effect that he eventually gave up his protestations and bowed to public demand that his given name be misspronounced in such a ridiculous way.

 

[FredGarvin]

Or Tribeca, etc... But New Yorkers, especially those living in Manhattan, do pronouce it as "Hous-ton".

I was warned quickly when I moved there. It has always been 'House-ton'.

It's "Ein-Schtein".

Really? I had never heard that. Now that you mention it, there are quite a few words that follow the same suit. I never really discussed Einstein when I was stationed there so I never really thought about that part of pronunciation. The one I always hear people complaining about with Einstein's name is that he got the "i before e" rule wrong twice in his name. I always have to argue that one.