Did Van Gogh's Seizure Disorder Lead to His Infamous Ear Cutting Incident?

[zoobyshoe]

Van Gogh and Gauguin were sharing a small room in Arles, France. The evening before the ear cutting incident they were at a Cafe drinking absinthe, a known epileptogenic drink that is now illegal. For no apparent reason Van Gogh picked up his absinthe and threw it at Gauguin. The next day he couldn't remember having done it. Gauguin told him he was going to go elsewhere, which upset Van Gogh. Gauguin went out for a walk...

"Going to his mirror and taking up his razor, van Gogh began to shave the edges of his ruddy beard. Just then, he told the doctor, he heard a disembodied voice commanding him to kill Gauguin. In Rey's (the doctor's) opinion, van Gogh had seized; the voice was a TLE (Temporal Lobe Epilepsy) seizure, coming from inside his brain.
Prompted by the voice, van Gogh went out into the empty street. He approached the public garden, passed between the firs and bouganvillea bushes that marked its entrance, and walked along the garden path, the blade still in his hand.
In a few minutes he reached Gauguin who, hearing footsteps, turned to find his host, fifteen feet behind him, looking crazed and holding up a blade. Van Gogh appeared to be in a trance. Moments later, he swung around and ran home, where he used the blade on himself, slicing off the lower half of his ear, the source of the voice that had told him to kill Gauguin.
To staunch the blood gushing from the wound, van Gogh pressed towel after towel to his head, dropping the soiled ones to the floor. Hours passed. Gauguin did not return; he had decided to spend the night at a hotel.
Around midnight, van Gogh picked up his severed ear, wrapped it in paper, and went out. He walked through the village to a brothel that Gauguin frequented, where he left his ear on the stoop with a note saying it was a "keepsake" for a prostitute who had once posed for him. He returned home, escorted by a neighbor who had been alerted to his strange behaviour, and went to sleep. The next morning, roused by officers summoned by the neighbor, he was taken to the hospital, where he met Felix Rey."

-Seized
Eve LaPlante
1993

She points out earlier in the chapter that this Dr. Rey had happened to be reading aticles on the various manifestations of seizure disorders by the great British Neurologist J. Hughlings Jackson. Before hearing the voice, van Gogh had started to suffer from occasional startling disturbances in his visual field, stomach aches, and mood swings. A couple of months after the incident he had a grand mal seizure that was witnessed by a nurse who was sent to keep him company while he painted.

 

[Monique]

Interesting that you should say this, just a few days ago this some how came up in a discussion.

It was said that Van Gogh was actually poisioned, which led to his irradic behaviour. Where did the poison come from? From the paint! All the organic solvents (not sure which one exactly, I believe they mentioned the compound a few days ago) he was inhaling, combined with the alcoholism caused this compound to accumulate in his body.

Not sure about the correctness of this statement, but it could be true.

 

[zoobyshoe]

He actually started becoming emotionally over-intense in early adulthood. You may know he tried for a long time to be a preacher. The parishoners petitioned to have him removed because he was too intense for them. He didn't even think seriously about art until after this failure as a preacher.

During the next ten years till his suicide, he lived on a near starvation diet, both because he had little money and out of some misguided empathy for the very poor people he liked to paint. When he did get money he was more likely to spend it on paint, coffee, tobacco, and wine, than food.

After the ear cutting incident he tried to commit suicide once by drinking turpentine and eating some of his paint. This may be where your story came from.

 

[Artman]

Originally posted by Monique
Interesting that you should say this, just a few days ago this some how came up in a discussion.

It was said that Van Gogh was actually poisioned, which led to his irradic behaviour. Where did the poison come from? From the paint! All the organic solvents (not sure which one exactly, I believe they mentioned the compound a few days ago) he was inhaling, combined with the alcoholism caused this compound to accumulate in his body.

Not sure about the correctness of this statement, but it could be true.

Lead and other heavy metals were also used in the pigments especially in white paint such as flake white. White lead is very toxic. I believe Cobalt blue has poisonous ingredients and the cadmium colors (not sure if they had those then or not) are supposed to be dangerous. He was also a big user of chrome yellow, which is very toxic.

 

[rick1138]

Exactly, all of the heavy metal pigments are very toxic - in my library somewhere I have a list of pigments vanGogh used - nearly every one contained heavy metals.

 

[rick1138]

I believe Cobalt blue has poisonous ingredients and the cadmium colors (not sure if they had those then or not) are supposed to be dangerous.

Cobalt blue contains cobalt which is aheavy metal and highly toxic. The cadmium colors are highly toxic as well, cadmium causes many of the same problems as lead poisoning, but it is also dangerous as a pulmonary carcinogen. Some of the compounds used in the cadmium paints are also used in pesticides. The cadmiums came into use in the late 18th century, and were widely used in vanGogh's time.

 

[einsteinian77]

It had nothing to do with the paints or alcoholism it had to do Van Gogh being insane. Just shortly after Van Gogh passed away his brother was also put into a mental institution. His brother having almost the same exact symptoms as Van gogh. This proves that it was a hereditary insanity.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
It had nothing to do with the paints

I agree. As I noted above, his personality was quite erratic before he even began to handle paints. It the paints were to blame all the painters of that time would have had the same symptoms.

or alcoholism

Alcohol was actually a thing that contributed to him becoming worse. Alcohol has a worsening effect on both mental illnesses and epilepsy.

it had to do Van Gogh being insane. Just shortly after Van Gogh passed away his brother was also put into a mental institution. His brother having almost the same exact symptoms as Van gogh. This proves that it was a hereditary insanity.

You are ignoring the diagnosis of epilepsy, made by Dr. Rey, and which was confirmed by the eventual generalization into a grand mal seizure that the nurse witnessed. You are also ignoring that on the night before he cut his ear he was drinking absinthe, which is so well known to trigger seizures that it has been outlawed.

His brother, Theo, was psychologically fine untill Vincent committed suicide. His mental breakdown was triggered by grief. What symptoms are you referring to that were "almost the same exact symptoms as Van gogh"?

 

[einsteinian77]

Van gogh's symptoms are not just limited to epilepsy. I've never heard of anyone cutting of their ear or hearing voices from any epilepsy caused sickness.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
Van gogh's symptoms are not just limited to epilepsy. I've never heard of anyone cutting of their ear or hearing voices from any epilepsy caused sickness.

Actually, people with simple and complex partial seizures do hear voices. They are subject to an incredible variety of physical sensations and sensory illusions.
Each person with epilepsy has his own personal mixture of seizure symptoms. Most forms of epilepsy do not involve any muscular convulsions. The general public is not aware of this.

Also, people who hear disembodied voices try an incredible number of things to silence them. The most popular nowadays is a portable music player with headphones and the volume turned up. People try earplugs, stuffing cotton in their ears, shouting at the voices to "Shut up!", and in some cases they try injuring their own ears. I think this must be a very horrible thing to experience.

Here is a link to an article that speaks about the difficulty sometimes experienced in distinguishing between complex partial seizures and mental illness.

Psychiatric Times
Address:http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p950927.html

 

[hypnagogue]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
You are also ignoring that on the night before he cut his ear he was drinking absinthe, which is so well known to trigger seizures that it has been outlawed.

Damn, where can I get me summa that?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by hypnagogue
Damn, where can I get me summa that?

A couple/three years ago it was getting a lot of press, making a comeback among avant-guard types, because apparently the "high" and mild hallucinations are quite pleasant. It is nicknamed "The Green Fairy".

Currently this street drug called "Special K" is the epileptogen that people are taking, mostly without realizing it puts them in danger of going into a grand mal seizure. It also causes the "Out of Body" experience pretty reliably, such that one researcher uses it to induce the OBE in his studies of that experience. I consider him quite reckless.

 

[einsteinian77]

It doesn't say anything about hearing "voices" just that sounds appear to be farther, closer, fainter, and more distinct then they actual are.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
It doesn't say anything about hearing "voices" just that sounds appear to be farther, closer, fainter, and more distinct then they actual are.

Let me do a little digging and I'll come up with an article that specifically mentions hearing voices.

 

[einsteinian77]

All I'm saying is that I've studied a little bit on epilepsy and I never heard of anyone hearing voices.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
All I'm saying is that I've studied a little bit on epilepsy and I never heard of anyone hearing voices.

It isn't the most common hallucination, to be sure, but I have probably read a dozen references to it happening in stuff I've read completely unrelated to the van Gogh case.

I don't want you to just take my word for this, and I will, indeed, find one of these references at least for you to have a look at.

 

[hypnagogue]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
A couple/three years ago it was getting a lot of press, making a comeback among avant-guard types, because apparently the "high" and mild hallucinations are quite pleasant. It is nicknamed "The Green Fairy".

It used to be quite popular back in the day among artists and poets, wasn't it? Not just a peculiarity to Van Gogh? I recall reading that for some reason.

And for whatever reason, most of the things that induce mild hallucinations turn out to be quite pleasant. Might have something to do with a common serotogenic effect among them.

Currently this street drug called "Special K" is the epileptogen that people are taking, mostly without realizing it puts them in danger of going into a grand mal seizure. It also causes the "Out of Body" experience pretty reliably, such that one researcher uses it to induce the OBE in his studies of that experience. I consider him quite reckless.

I think people realize that, and even seek it out-- they probably just don't know that it's a grand mal seizure at work. It's called a K-hole. I've heard very bad stories, and very good stories, which is kind of par for the course with hallucinogenics.

Is there long term danger related to inducing a grand mal seizure? From what I understand, a seizure is just synchronous firing of neurons. So while maybe the underlying chemical mechanisms may turn out to be toxic to the brain, I don't see how a period of synchronous firing in itself could have deleterious long term effects-- assuming it doesn't make one more susceptible to seizures in the future.

 

[einsteinian77]

I have no doubt that epilepsy amplified Van gogh's eccentricities but I think he would have been mentally insane without epilepsy.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
It doesn't say anything about hearing "voices" just that sounds appear to be farther, closer, fainter, and more distinct then they actual are.

OK, here's one:

Health Library - Aura and seizures
Address:http://health_info.nmh.org/Library/HealthGuide/IllnessConditions/topic.asp?hwid=tm6354

I'll be editing in a couple more.

OK, go here and scroll down to "Partial Seizures" then read the second paragraph:

Health Library - Aura and seizures
Address:http://health_info.nmh.org/Library/HealthGuide/IllnessConditions/topic.asp?hwid=tm6354

This next one is a personal web page I found by a guy with seizures (quite a religious guy, it seems). His report of hearing a disembodied voice is in the third paragraph:

A Brief Message of Hope - My Message
Address:http://www.abriefmessageofhope.exactpages.com/testimony.html

 

[rick1138]

It the paints were to blame all the painters of that time would have had the same symptoms.

vanGogh was notoriously slovenly, and a lot of painters in the history of art have been affected neegatively by their materials.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by hypnagogue


It used to be quite popular back in the day among artists and poets, wasn't it? Not just a peculiarity to Van Gogh? I recall reading that for some reason.[/B]

It was all the rage. Van Gogh had ordered his absinthe at the cafe. He didn't bring a surreptitiously concealed brown paper bag.

And for whatever reason, most of the things that induce mild hallucinations turn out to be quite pleasant. Might have something to do with a common serotogenic effect among them.

I really don't know.

I think people realize that, and even seek it out-- they probably just don't know that it's a grand mal seizure at work. It's called a K-hole. I've heard very bad stories, and very good stories, which is kind of par for the course with hallucinogenics.

I don't see the appeal. What the experiencer of a grand mal seizure gets is unconsciousness followed by post-ictal confusion, the feeling you've been hit by a car from the sore muscles, and a bloody tongue or cheek from when your jaw clamped down on them.

From what I understand, a seizure is just synchronous firing of neurons. So while maybe the underlying chemical mechanisms may turn out to be toxic to the brain, I don't see how a period of synchronous firing in itself could have deleterious long term effects-- assuming it doesn't make one more susceptible to seizures in the future.

It is generally accepted that it does make you more susceptible.
Also, grand mal seizures in particular lead to a brief period where parts of the brain are starved of blood for a while.

Neurologist Wilder Penfield witnessed this with his own eyes when he had a guy's scull open in preparation for surgery, and induced him to have a seizure with an electrode and tiny voltage (the guy was already epileptic, incidently).

After the seizure, Penfield saw several patches of the man's brain turn from the normal pink to dead white as the blood supply was cut off. This kind of blood starvation just plain kills neurons. Dead neurons cause more seizures.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by rick1138
vanGogh was notoriously slovenly

Citations? Also need quotes, etc demonstrating the others weren't.

and a lot of painters in the history of art have been affected neegatively by their materials.

Citations? Proof? Evidence that rules out all other causes for any symptom?

I'm not arguing that the materials were not toxic. But to attribute the cause of a mental condition that started becoming severe problem for van Gogh long before he started to paint, to his paints, is nonsence. If you want to explain his mental problems this way you have to do some serious ignoring of the long history of obsessive and strange behaviour that preceeded his decision to become an artist.

 

[hypnagogue]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
It was all the rage. Van Gogh had ordered his absinthe at the cafe. He didn't bring a surreptitiously concealed brown paper bag.

That's no way to treat a Green Fairy, anyway.

I don't see the appeal. What the experiencer of a grand mal seizure gets is unconsciousness followed by post-ictal confusion, the feeling you've been hit by a car from the sore muscles, and a bloody tongue or cheek from when your jaw clamped down on them.

OK, that's not what I was talking about. Little intense there. I've never heard of anyone getting that bad on Ketamine (not to say I don't think it's possible). I've heard of people going unconscious, and out of body and the like, but not the sore muscles or clamped jaw.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by hypnagogue
That's no way to treat a Green Fairy, anyway.

Gauche, for sure.

OK, that's not what I was talking about. Little intense there. I've never heard of anyone getting that bad on Ketamine (not to say I don't think it's possible). I've heard of people going unconscious, and out of body and the like, but not the sore muscles or clamped jaw.

Sorry about the intensity. The grand mal isn't called the grand mal for nothing.
I'm not well versed in the Ketamine symptoms at all. I've just read a bit by accident here and there. I do know that some people have been sent into grand mal seizures by it. This could be because they really overdosed, or these could be people who had a preexisting seizure condition they weren't aware of. (In some cases people have been seizing in their sleep for a long time before it starts happening during the day).

The OBE is a seizure, but just a simple partial. Chemically inducing this is to run the risk it won't stop at the parietal lobes, but will generalize.

Electro-convulsive therapy is more and more being replaced by chemically induced seizures. I don't know what drug thy use. I wonder if it isn't Ketamine or a close relative? I could do a search, I suppose.

 

[sandinmyears]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
Van gogh's symptoms are not just limited to epilepsy. I've never heard of anyone cutting of their ear or hearing voices from any epilepsy caused sickness.

Actually, "hearing voices," or auditory hallucinations are very common in Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. I, myself, have TLE. For me, this amounts to simple-partial, complex-partial, and tonic-clonic (AKA grand-mal) seizures. In 1988, I had a left anterior temporal lobectomy to correct this problem. Though I still have epilepsy, there was a tremendous improvement in them.

Before the surgery in '88, when I would have a complex-partial seizure (the type where you don't lose complete consciousness, but you aren't in total control of your faculties either), I would have what are known as "auditory hallucinations." I would hear things. Voices especially. Frightening voices. They sounded like something out of a scarey movie. (It's very understandable how it was at one time believed that people with epilepsy were posessed by demons because if I myself didn't know better, I might have thought the same).

During a complex-partial seizure, I would become very paranoid. I would be afraid to let anyone come near me and the voices didn't help matters in the least. I would hear the voices saying things to me like "I'm going to get you." Some of you may be giggling as you read this, and perhaps I would giggle if I read something like this as well-- had I never experienced it. But it was very real and it was terribly frightening. It is something I would never wish on anyone.

After my surgery, the voices stopped. The complex-partials only occur (on average) once a year. When they do, I still have auditory hallucinations, but all I hear is a vibrating sound. Noises sound unusual. (Weird). Imagine someone talking through a fan. That weird vibrating noise is how noises sound to me-- but they aren't frightening anymore. (Actually, I find them to be funny-- and that's a nice change).

~Sandy

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
I have no doubt that epilepsy amplified Van gogh's eccentricities but I think he would have been mentally insane without epilepsy.

Go back to this link:

Psychiatric Times
Address:http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p950927.html

and scroll down to the section titled "TLE Personality?" The 6th paragraph of that section starts with the sentence "Episodes of frank psychosis can be the initial presentation of TLE..."
This shows that epilepsy can present in ways that are indistinguishable from mental illness, but which are, in fact, epileptic in origin.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by sandinmyears
I, myself, have TLE. For me, this amounts to simple-partial, complex-partial, and tonic-clonic (AKA grand-mal) seizures.
~Sandy

Just like van Gogh, you have all three levels of seizure. For people who don't know:

Simple Partial=completely conscious

Complex Partial=defect of consciousness

Generalized = total loss of consciouness. (Happens during Tonic-Clonic, Atonic, and Absence seizures)

 

[einsteinian77]

I stand corrected

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
I stand corrected

Not just the general public, but a huge percentage of doctors don't know what you just learned about epilepsy. Strangely, some neurologists don't even know it.

The percentage of people with epilepsy who present as mentally ill isn't very large, maybe 10% or less. For a long time, however, all epileptics used to get lumped in with the mentally ill in insane asylums.

Organizations like The National Epilepsy Foundation (or whatever it's called) did a lot of pushing for many years to get the fact that it ever presents as mental illness played down to the point where it became politically incorrect to even allude to it.

Thats fine except that a lot of epileptics started getting incorrectly diagnosed as bipolar and schizophrenic, because no one thought to check for seizures. If you take someone acting strangely to a psychiatrist he will look for a psychiatric cause or something drug related. Seizures?
They haven't a clue.

 

[einsteinian77]

was epilepsy also responsible for when Van Gogh sent the ear to gauguin?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
was epilepsy also responsible for when Van Gogh sent the ear to gauguin?

He didn't send it to Gauguin. He wrapped it up in paper and left it on the stoop of a brothel with a note that it was a "keepsake" for one of the prostitutes there who had once posed for him. This happened after he finally got the bleeding stopped from cutting the ear, so it was part of the same episode, yes.

 

[einsteinian77]

Have you ever seen the movie about Vincent and his brother? I think Van gogh was played by Tim Roth and its not that bad of a movie.Do you know how accurately that movie relate to actual events?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
Have you ever seen the movie about Vincent and his brother? I think Van gogh was played by Tim Roth and its not that bad of a movie.Do you know how accurately that movie relate to actual events?

No, I didn't see that one. Tim Roth doesn't even sound familiar. What else would I know him from?

 

[einsteinian77]

He was ringo(the guy who held up the diner) in pulp fiction

 

[hypnagogue]

Just curious, why the strong distinction between epilepsy and mental illness? Assuming mental illness is just the result of dysfunctional brain activity, wouldn't epilepsy fall under that category? I realize epileptics are perfectly normal when they aren't having a seizure, but aren't (for instance) bipolar people normal when they aren't on one of their highs or lows?