Akiane: Child Prodigy & Her Unbelievable Art

[Ivan Seeking]

She tells quite a story as well.
http://www.artakiane.com/akiane_art.htm

I am pushing my luck by posting this so please remember the rules: Any and all religious debates, and all attacks on religion, will be deleted. Penalty points will be assigned if appropriate; esp given this warning.

Do we have any idea how such talent is expressed at such a young age, and with no training? Or, perhaps the real question is, why can't everyone do this? What makes her different?

I esp like these two - both painted at age ten.
http://www.artakiane.com/paintings/age_10/paint_pyramids.jpg
http://www.artakiane.com/paintings/age_10/paint_power_prayer.jpg

 

[rockytriton]

my guess is that her parents gave her lots of access to drawing materials, gave her lots of inspiration, and gave her 0 access to TV. Add that to a little natural talent in art and boom, you have a child prodigy. I think the main factors are inspiration and no TV.

 

[K.J.Healey]

From the progress of her work and the fact her parents wanted to homeschool her I figure they got her started on sketches and drawings at a young age.
I'd imagine you could do this to almost any kid that is moderately intelligent.
The key is to start young, and to practice practice practice.
I imagine:
Age 3 : Her parents notice her playing with crayons and give her something to draw. They realize that she likes doing it and encourage it.
All throughout age 3 they have her do, let's say, one simple drawing a day. Takes about 20 minutes. Each day she draws something new. At the end of the year, I would imagine she is already quite capable, after having drawn 300+ drawings. She could probably draw objects with simple strokes, no shading, etc.
At age 4 all you do is step it up. Show her the few simple techniques it looks like she uses and have her draw more complicated things including faces. I'm sure the sketches on the website are the "best looking" ones from her 4-years-old phase. I'm positive there were others that they just did not want to show. Regardless, she gets better and better.
And so forth.

Its one thing to say ooh, a child prodigy at age 10/11 some girl is just great at art! But then you look and what yo uactually have is someone drawing
http://www.artakiane.com/paintings/age_11/age11_19.htm#
after SEVEN YEARS of practice. Thats a long time. I'm sure any of us could do that after SEVEN YEARS of drawing all the time and reading art books. It seems like they encouraged her and taught her techniques because they never say she did it alone, they just say "mostly alone" or "almost completely by herself".

Thems my thoughts.

I will say though at age 3 I'm not even sure what I was doing. I could probably have been considered a genius playwright with the complex stories I used to have playing with my legos and GIJoes.

 

[siddharth]

I'm reminded of autistic savants who also have extraordinary talents at a young age. I wonder if there's an accepted biological reason for this? Has anyone found, for example, a different structure in the brain, or a genetic contribution like alleles for the exceptional traits?

 

[LURCH]

I was drawing almost constantly from age 4, and I couldn't come close to this @ 11. Most children I know under the age of 5 draw almost every day; and I've naver seen work like this from a child this young.

 

[ranger]

From the progress of her work and the fact her parents wanted to homeschool her I figure they got her started on sketches and drawings at a young age.
I'd imagine you could do this to almost any kid that is moderately intelligent.
The key is to start young, and to practice practice practice.
I imagine:
Age 3 : Her parents notice her playing with crayons and give her something to draw. They realize that she likes doing it and encourage it.
All throughout age 3 they have her do, let's say, one simple drawing a day. Takes about 20 minutes. Each day she draws something new. At the end of the year, I would imagine she is already quite capable, after having drawn 300+ drawings. She could probably draw objects with simple strokes, no shading, etc.

...

This shouldn't matter. All normal kids start drawing with lines, tadpole figures, and no sense of depth at those ages (3-4). Giving your child a piece of paper and crayon and tell then to practice wont' spawn any rapid developments in about 1-2 yrs time. Drawing is akin to cognitive development, which at age 4 is nothing extraordinary to give rise to such beautiful art.

Akiane is definitely messed up when it comes to cognitive development and she obviously isn't normal.

I will say though at age 3 I'm not even sure what I was doing.

Thats good. It should be this way.

 

[K.J.Healey]

(about age 3)
Thats good. It should be this way.

I've been thinking about this. I MAY remember stuff from age 3, but probably no younger.
I started preschool at age 3 and 9 months. (Birthday is late november)
I remember the first day of preschool sort of. I remember having to go to some tester guy a few days before preschool, in some gym, where they tested my walking ability goign up and down a ramp or stairs or something, while my mom talked to them. I remember her telling me it had to do with them testing things like whether i would have trouble climbing stairs at school.
I definitely remember at least a dozen separate events at preschool.

Whats funny is I think my first memory of actually being IN preschool (I was anywhere from 3y9m to 4y5m old) is being amazed by a prism and how it made the colors :) I was born to be a physicist.

I remember one day I was told to draw a few people on a sheet of paper. I chose to draw stick people cause they were the easiest, and I gave one a hat. I remember this distinctly. I was at the table closest to the window on the front side of the room facing the back (by the prism and bookshelf and puppets). I found out years later that they tried to use the fact that "Kristopher is not showing some signs of development, such as drawing people with clothes on and bodies that aren't stick." They told my parents they wanted to hold me back another year because of it.
Of course they refused saying I was really bright. They found out the next year that I guess the schol had too many kids entering Kg and they told the teachers to find the youngest ones and try to get a reason to hold them back.

Sorry to throw this wayyy off topic. Its just fun to think about these things.

 

[ranger]

I've been thinking about this. I MAY remember stuff from age 3, but probably no younger.
I started preschool at age 3 and 9 months. (Birthday is late november)
I remember the first day of preschool sort of. I remember having to go to some tester guy a few days before preschool, in some gym, where they tested my walking ability goign up and down a ramp or stairs or something, while my mom talked to them. I remember her telling me it had to do with them testing things like whether i would have trouble climbing stairs at school.
I definitely remember at least a dozen separate events at preschool.

Whats funny is I think my first memory of actually being IN preschool (I was anywhere from 3y9m to 4y5m old) is being amazed by a prism and how it made the colors :) I was born to be a physicist.

I remember one day I was told to draw a few people on a sheet of paper. I chose to draw stick people cause they were the easiest, and I gave one a hat. I remember this distinctly. I was at the table closest to the window on the front side of the room facing the back (by the prism and bookshelf and puppets). I found out years later that they tried to use the fact that "Kristopher is not showing some signs of development, such as drawing people with clothes on and bodies that aren't stick." They told my parents they wanted to hold me back another year because of it.
Of course they refused saying I was really bright. They found out the next year that I guess the schol had too many kids entering Kg and they told the teachers to find the youngest ones and try to get a reason to hold them back.

Sorry to throw this wayyy off topic. Its just fun to think about these things.

Its very uncommon to to remember stuff prior to age 3. Even if you can recall stuff when you're 3.5 yrs old, its no problem. You will usually recall traumatic experiences, or events that made a big impression on you. Like yourself, I also recall my first school days. I have to ask my mom, but I believe I was your age when I started. I must have started early because I started college at 16

With that said, it is hard for us to recall events from childhood becuase of the way we store memories at that age. There is no order; we cannot categories things as yet, hence everything is chaotic. So the world as you would see it at that time, would be stored in memory as images. You will however have trouble recalling them [at a later age] becuase of the nature in which they were stored.

 

[rockytriton]

So apparently this is implying that all normal children [and people] are not special...

According to fox news, normal children are not special, they must make themselves special, and they blame the decline of america on Mr Rogers for telling kids that they are special... See the video:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/06/fox-news-%E2%80%98blame-mr-rogers%E2%80%99/

 

[ranger]

According to fox news, normal children are not special, they must make themselves special, and they blame the decline of america on Mr Rogers for telling kids that they are special... See the video:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/06/fox-news-%E2%80%98blame-mr-rogers%E2%80%99/

Thats why no one watches Fox News. I only watch Fox for The Simpsons

But in all serious, those people are jackasses to the fullest extent. I fully agree with Mr. Rogers. Every child is special. Hey, if God doesn't share this point of view, so what? The next one we'd start asking; is Akiane special in the eyes of God becuase she is White (blond/blue eyes)? This is rubbish! Unfortunately, I'm sure her parents have this point of view. Get this - Akiane isn't special, she's gifted. The ones that are to be blamed for children not getting good grades are the parents and the teachers, not something Mr. Rogers said. These idiots are so desperate for an answer to Americas decaying public school system, that the will blame the most non obvious person. Pathetic.

I wonder how Lou Dobbs would respond to the accusations against Mr.Rogers

 

[russ_watters]

I was drawing almost constantly from age 4, and I couldn't come close to this @ 11. Most children I know under the age of 5 draw almost every day; and I've naver seen work like this from a child this young.

I agree that this is more than just a little talent. A true prodigy has an absurd amount of talent. There was no tv in the 1700s either, and plenty of pushy parents, but there was only one Beethoven.

 

[rockytriton]

I agree that this is more than just a little talent. A true prodigy has an absurd amount of talent. There was no tv in the 1700s either, and plenty of pushy parents, but there was only one Beethoven.

Also, a true prodigy has a great amount of talent compared to a small need for practice. Take those autistic piano prodigies for example, they don't sit there at the piano for 8 hours a day practicing constantly. They just seem to have a natural ability to repeat things like music on the piano. I wouldn't say they are a musical genius though, you don't usually see them composing a masterpiece like beethoven.

Also, think about that "the real rainman" that they keep showing on the discovery channel, saying how he is a genius because he can give you the answer to any common fact. It's ridiculous to call him a genius, that's like saying that your computer is a genius because it has wikipedia downloaded to its hard drive. Try asking the guy something that will require him to actually think and use some kind of reasoning ability. You aren't a genius if you can't reason.

 

[ranger]

Also, think about that "the real rainman" that they keep showing on the discovery channel, saying how he is a genius because he can give you the answer to any common fact. It's ridiculous to call him a genius, that's like saying that your computer is a genius because it has wikipedia downloaded to its hard drive. Try asking the guy something that will require him to actually think and use some kind of reasoning ability. You aren't a genius if you can't reason.

Have you ever heard of Daniel Tammet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet

He seems to be a savant that applies reasoning and isn't simply just a human dictionary.

 

[ranger]

I'm reminded of autistic savants who also have extraordinary talents at a young age. I wonder if there's an accepted biological reason for this? Has anyone found, for example, a different structure in the brain, or a genetic contribution like alleles for the exceptional traits?

I have found a wiki article that briefly hints a few points. Whether they are accurate is questionable:

Savant Syndrome is usually recognized during childhood and is found in children with autism and other developmental difficulties. However it can also be acquired in an accident or illness, typically one that injures or impairs the left side of the brain. Some research that suggests that it can be induced, which might support the view that savant abilities are latent within all people but are obscured by the normal functioning intellect. Using repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation, Allan Snyder has found some evidence that savant-like skills can be improved in a healthy individual by temporary disruption of the left front part of the brain - at least with some of the probates [1].

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Autistic_savant&oldid=148648226

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I was watching some Discovery show on the "Rain Man" and his abilities had to do with the fact that he wouldn't encode any information. When we input information we attach many "Wrappers" and attributes to that information. The rain man did not thus allowing for better memory. However, the draw back was the rain man couldn't understand concepts like metaphors.

 

[teleport]

You will usually recall traumatic experiences, or events that made a big impression on you.

This is so true. When I was three years old, I had an appendicitis operation. To this date I have memories of many different things of that time. I remember the hospital room I was in for about a month, the view outside through the window, my dad's students coming and saying hi, (one of them, a girl, drew me some comics) even a bowl with cold water they used to bathe me with. I truly don't care if you don't believe me. After that, I don't seem to remember anything else until maybe age 5 or something.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It took me 40 hours to finish the first Jesus painting –The Prince of Peace-- and I still remember I lost four teeth in that time!

http://www.artakiane.com/akiane_painting.htm

Funny!

 

[zoobyshoe]

I don't know if her works are presented in temporal order but she makes a huge leap at age five. Notice the sudden maturity in the picture of her brother as compared to the one of a black boy that just preceeds it. ("Black Boy" is the third one from the left. Something happened in there that gave her a huge insight about facial structure or about seeing what she's looking at.
-----
Her sensibilities are pretty cheesey: the emotional elements that ring her bell, but her rendering skills are pretty much unbelievable. Even among adult artists the ability to render realistically is an uncommon skill (the majority of "artists" learn and rely on a kind of formula art, especially anime and maga, and tattoo style stuff) and this little girl is remarkable for having accomplished what a lot of older people just can't bring themselves to do: sit down, practise, and constantly improve. I really don't understand how she was able to focus at so young an age.

The autistic artists I know about tend to be much more repetitive with their subject matter: one only draws cityscapes, one only sculpts animals, one only paints houses, and one only makes models of cars. This girl is completely versatile.

 

[Jilvin]

I say the explanation is simple:

She simply has a very great talent for art. She is simply very good at it. No supernaturality involved.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I say the explanation is simple:

She simply has a very great talent for art. She is simply very good at it. No supernaturality involved.

That wasn't the original question:

Do we have any idea how such talent is expressed at such a young age, and with no training? Or, perhaps the real question is, why can't everyone do this? What makes her different?

 

[CEL]

Mozart was born in Salzburg, Austria in 1756. He started when he was four by making his own composition and studying violin. He said that all his activities be accompanied by music. When her was six he went on a tour all through Europe by stagecoach. He played for royalty, well-known people and in bars. At age seven he proposed marriage to Marie Antoinette. When Mozart was eight he composed symphonies. At age eleven he wrote his first opera.

As russ_waters said, once in a while a prodigy is born.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

As russ_waters said, once in a while a prodigy is born.

I used to have a shirt with a cartoon and caption on the front of it. It showed one scientist reviewing his work with another. On the board in front of them, the left side was covered with equations, as was the right, which finally lead to an equal sign. Connecting the two sets of equations were the words "then a miracle occurs".

 

[J77]

People are defintely born with different levels of skill -- what strikes me as weird is the "fantasy" theme of her paintings. This must have come from some outside influence.

 

[kokain]

I think she has brain damage. She says on the website that at age 4 she was taken to Heaven. That has to be something.

This is not a bash on atheists but this is my theory:

I know a lot of people that say they are atheists that hate God. You can't hate Him AND not believe that He exists. Now this is pure speculation, when the young girl was up in Heaven (in a hospital bed) and her parents where torn apart with fear and anger, there may have been some cursing and "MFing" God. Now it seems that her entire life and every thought she thinks is revolving around God. She is definitely not normal.

So I guess I believe that anyone can be a savant. All you have to do is make you brain not work the way it is supposed to.

 

[Doc Al]

I know a lot of people that say they are atheists that hate God. You can't hate Him AND not believe that He exists.

Your second sentence is true, which is why I question the first. Atheists don't believe that god(s) exist, so how could they hate a nonexistent thing? It would be like hating the Easter Bunny. (No offense to any Easter Bunnyists out there. )

 

[-RA-]

I have seen her art before and i was amazed by it. The thing i always notice about savants is their ability to vividly remember visual things. A lot of savants claim that their brain works in pictures more than normal peoples brains do, ie, when we hear a word spoken we don't have to create an actual picture of what that word is, we can deduce the meaning in its relevant context without the need to picture the word in our mind. On the other hand some savants claim that they think purely in pictures as people speak, which could be why some savants find it hard to socialize properly with other people as they are unable to understand non visual words very well, even though they may be amazingly talented at their specific skill. (sort of a form of dislexia)

This ability to see things that aren't actually there is what really fascinates me about this. I used to know this guy who was absolutely amazing at maths becasue he had applied a color to every number under 50 from the time he was born. He found out that he pictured numbers completely differently to other people when he was about 6 and he found it really hard to comprehend how anyone could do maths without visualizing colored numbers. I kept asking him how exactly he used the colors to help him with the maths, but he could not descibe it apart from he could see 'patterns' in the numbers. he could literally do calculations like 23^7 in his head in about 5 seconds! Its called Synesthesia. he was mentioned earlier, and i can reccomend watching this clip on how Daniel Tammet visualizes the numbers he see's, as he's one of the rare savants able to communicate what is exactly going on in his head;

it says that he has an individual distinct shape for every number between 1 and 10,000 stored in his mind, and if he wants to calculate a total he just merges the shapes in his head and reads the answer from the resulting shape! To me it seems as if his brain has found a link between shape geometry and number systems that is currently unknown to maths. Its not just maths aswell, he learned one of the world's most difficult languages, Icelandic, in just a week!

 

[phantomstar]

She tells quite a story as well.
http://www.artakiane.com/akiane_art.htm

I am pushing my luck by posting this so please remember the rules: Any and all religious debates, and all attacks on religion, will be deleted. Penalty points will be assigned if appropriate; esp given this warning.

Do we have any idea how such talent is expressed at such a young age, and with no training? Or, perhaps the real question is, why can't everyone do this? What makes her different?

I esp like these two - both painted at age ten.
http://www.artakiane.com/paintings/age_10/paint_pyramids.jpg
http://www.artakiane.com/paintings/age_10/paint_power_prayer.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet

Daniel Tammet aka "Brainman", "...is a British high-functioning autistic savant gifted with a facility for mathematical calculations, sequence memory, and natural language learning. He was born with congenital childhood epilepsy."

There was an experience in her life, "At 4, had a life-changing spiritual
transformation, bringing the family to God.".

Not sure if the experience had something to do with her brain or anything physical related to her brain. Speculation.

As for lanugage from her website, "Speaks four languages: Lithuanian,
Russian, English and Sign Language"

I personally did not see on the website where it said what experts have seen her. If I missed this please link who evaluated her. The only speculation I could make is that she maybe an autistic savant as well, because there is a huge spectrum of autisim.
High-functioning autistic people such as people with, "Asperger syndrome" may have some of these gifts.

I'm not saying she is autistic, this is only a possiblity since I didn't find anything that said she had been evaluated with anything. I want to make it clear that this is 100% speculation.

 

[-RA-]

Daniel Tammet aka "Brainman", "...is a British high-functioning autistic savant gifted with a facility for mathematical calculations, sequence memory, and natural language learning. He was born with congenital childhood epilepsy."

There was an experience in her life, "At 4, had a life-changing spiritual
transformation, bringing the family to God.".

Not sure if the experience had something to do with her brain or anything physical related to her brain. Speculation.

Thats another thing i noticed, a lot of these talented people seem to have had some sort of traumatic or 'spiritual' experience. Daniel claims he got this ability after a particularly bad seizure. Artakiane claims that she had a had a life-changing spiritual transformation at four. A lot of other savants get certain abilities after types of brain damage, which makes me think that these sort of abilities could be 'unlocked' in other people as well when the mechanism that causes them is better understood.

so in responce to your original question Ivan, why can't everyone do this, i think that we all probably could be able to in the future, once the actual physical changes in the brain that cause this are known. Maybe these abilities could even be induced in people. Messing with peoples brains on that level is definitely not possible today though, sadly.