Is employment easy to get outside academia for physics Ph.D.'s?

[metalrose]

I know that most physics Ph.D's end up in wall street and jobs in finance etc. And I do know of the scarce jobs within academia.

And so my question is, that is getting a job elsewhere, for instance wall street, nearly a cakewalk for a physics Ph.D. or is there a similar kind of struggle there too, just like there is in academia?

Also, do the employers at big corporate companies and banks etc. give preference to those coming from business degree backgrounds, like MBA's over the ones with Ph.D.'s in science or is the preference nearly the same?

on a side note,
Can one keep applying for jobs within academia while working off academia? And is it possible for one to come back to a tenured job in academia after having worked out of academia for several years? (Considering no or minimal post-doc experience)

 

[D H]

I know that most physics Ph.D's end up in wall street and jobs in finance etc.

Not positive, but I do not think that is the case. I suspect it is the other way around, that most physics PhDs end up working as physicists. I also suspect this phenomena of hiring physicists to do financial work will eventually end. Business schools are now starting to offer advanced degrees in quantitative analysis. I would recommend that you not pursue a PhD in physics if your goal is to work in the financial industry. You should pursue a PhD in physics because you want to do physics. There are plenty of opportunities outside of academia where physicists can and do work more or less as physicists.

 

[metalrose]

There are plenty of opportunities outside of academia where physicists can and do work more or less as physicists.

What would be those opportunities and what kind of work exactly?

Thanks

 

[Andy Resnick]

I know that most physics Ph.D's end up in wall street and jobs in finance etc. And I do know of the scarce jobs within academia.

The American Institute of Physics publishes employment data regularly:

http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/highlite/emp3/emphigh.htm

http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/highlite/emp3/table3.htm

Also the largest employers of PhDs can be found:

http://phys.kent.edu/pages/indust_employ.html

Both show your two statements are incorrect- 29% of PhDs are *initially* employed by academia as potentially permanent positions, and I couldn't find any financial/wall street firms on the list of large employers.

And so my question is, that is getting a job elsewhere, for instance wall street, nearly a cakewalk for a physics Ph.D. or is there a similar kind of struggle there too, just like there is in academia?

Looking for a job sucks. It sucks for everyone. The trick is to make yourself *employable*. Have multiple skills, have multiple interests, and have the ability to demonstrate that you can solve someone else's problem faster and cheaper than your competition.

 

[Tom83B]

Also the largest employers of PhDs can be found:

http://phys.kent.edu/pages/indust_employ.html

Among the largest employers are e.g. IMB and HP or Boeing. What do physicist do there? Aren't those jobs more suitable for engineers?

 

[Stef42]

Among the largest employers are e.g. IMB and HP or Boeing. What do physicist do there? Aren't those jobs more suitable for engineers?

Bump as I would really be interested in some sort of answer to this question :)
Basically, for a physicist with a Masters/Phd, what job paths are there excluding Finance and academia? Oh and where would be the best place to find that sort of information for the Uk/Europe?
Cheers.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Among the largest employers are e.g. IMB and HP or Boeing. What do physicist do there? Aren't those jobs more suitable for engineers?

Since those companies employ large numbers of PhD physicists, I expect physicists do many things at those companies. I'm sure if you emailed someone in human resources they would send you all kinds of information.

To your other question- do physicists have to compete with engineers for those jobs- at the entry level, the answer is generally 'yes'. Again, it comes down to you having a broad skill set and the ability to demonstrate that you can solve the company's problem better, faster, and cheaper than your competitors. What do you bring to the table?

 

[metalrose]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I had also asked a side question : "Can one keep applying for jobs within academia while working off academia? And is it possible for one to come back to a tenured job in academia after having worked out of academia for several years? (Considering no or minimal post-doc experience)"

Would be great if someone could answer this too.

 

[Vanadium 50]

First, it is never "easy" to get a well-paying job. That's true in academia and it's true in industry. There is this idea out there than once someone gets a PhD, the world owes them a living, and it's simply not the case. You will have to convince an employer that she would rather have you working for her than have the cash in her pocket. Like Andy said, you have to demonstrate that you can solve the company's problem better, faster, and cheaper.

One can always apply for jobs in academia. Whether you get one or not is another matter. If you have been working as an engineer for some time, and are applying to an engineering department, this may be a plus. If you want to be a research physicist, and weren't able to get an academic job N years ago, I don't see how working outside the field for N years will make you more attractive to a university.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I had also asked a side question : "Can one keep applying for jobs within academia while working off academia? And is it possible for one to come back to a tenured job in academia after having worked out of academia for several years? (Considering no or minimal post-doc experience)"

Would be great if someone could answer this too.

Yes to both- at least, that has been my career path.

 

[twofish-quant]

And so my question is, that is getting a job elsewhere, for instance wall street, nearly a cakewalk for a physics Ph.D. or is there a similar kind of struggle there too, just like there is in academia?

Getting a job is hard work. I think for my last round of jobs, I had to send out about a hundred resumes. The good news is that after spending six months and a lot of pavement pounding, you are reasonably certain of getting a non-academic job, which isn't the case with academia at all.

Right now the economy is in bad shape, and it's somewhat difficult to get a job with a physics Ph.D., but it's a *lot* easier getting a job with a physics Ph.D. than with any other degree.

Also, do the employers at big corporate companies and banks etc. give preference to those coming from business degree backgrounds, like MBA's over the ones with Ph.D.'s in science or is the preference nearly the same?

Banks hire MBA's to do MBA-stuff and they hire physics Ph.D's to do physics Ph.D.-stuff.

Most jobs in finance do not require a Ph.D., however the supply-demand balance works in favor of people with Ph.D's. One interesting statistic is that the US graduates about 1000 physics Ph.D.'s each year. Harvard *alone* puts out about 1000 MBA's, and you have about 100,000 MBA's issued last year.

Can one keep applying for jobs within academia while working off academia? And is it possible for one to come back to a tenured job in academia after having worked out of academia for several years? (Considering no or minimal post-doc experience)

I do know of people with physics backgrounds that get adjunct faculty positions in finance departments. If you like teaching, it's also trivially easy to get an adjunct position teaching online or at a community college.

The trouble with applying for physics tenure track positions, is that you won't have enough time to put together a publication record for the standard positions. You can get jobs in situations where industry experience is considered a good thing. This happens in some areas of physics but not in others.