Particle Behaviour: Air, Gravity & More

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Tree Penguin
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Particle
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the factors affecting particle behavior in a simulated environment, specifically focusing on the effects of air resistance and gravity on particles such as dust. Participants explore the physics principles relevant to a particle engine used for simulating effects like water, smoke, and fire.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the factors that influence how air slows down a particle, questioning whether volume and force (velocity multiplied by mass) are relevant.
  • Another participant clarifies that gravity's effect on a particle is determined solely by its mass, suggesting that shape or density does not play a role in this context.
  • A participant introduces Stokes' law for calculating the friction force on a particle moving through a viscous fluid, providing the formula and conditions under which it applies.
  • There is confusion regarding the application of Stokes' formula, particularly concerning the units and the role of particle radius versus mass in determining the friction force.
  • Participants discuss the concept of 'free stream velocity' and its significance in the context of the forces acting on particles in a fluid medium.
  • Questions arise about the terminal velocity of a particle of sand in air and the meaning of constants mentioned in a referenced article on terminal velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the physics involved, particularly in relation to Stokes' law and the factors affecting particle motion. There is no consensus on the implications of mass versus radius in determining the behavior of particles in a fluid.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of viscosity and fluid dynamics, indicating potential gaps in knowledge that may affect the discussion. The application of formulas is also noted to depend on specific conditions, which remain unresolved.

Tree Penguin
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Hi, i am building a basic particle engine and i need to know what affects a 'particle' (a bit of dust for instance), i got these questions:

What affects the rate at which the air slows down the particle when moving? It's volume and force (velocity*mass)?

What affects gravity? It's volume?

Are there any other important aspects that i should take into account?

Thanks in advance.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I do not understand your question, please clarify.
For starters, what is a "particle engine"?
 
A particle engine is a computer program that can simulate the behaviour of particles (as used in special effects for water, smoke, dust and fire).

To build such a program i need to know what affects the behaviour of these particles. I know all the intersection math i will need, i just need to know what physics i should take into account.

The most obvious affection would be gravity, what aspect(s) of the particle (volume, mass, anything else?) affects the effect of gravity on it?

I'd like to know what affects the effect of air too.

I hope i am clear now.

I think that's all i need to know for now, if I'm wrong please say so.
 
Tree Penguin said:
A particle engine is a computer program that can simulate the behaviour of particles (as used in special effects for water, smoke, dust and fire).
To build such a program i need to know what affects the behaviour of these particles. I know all the intersection math i will need, i just need to know what physics i should take into account.
The most obvious affection would be gravity, what aspect(s) of the particle (volume, mass, anything else?) affects the effect of gravity on it?
I'd like to know what affects the effect of air too.
I hope i am clear now.
I think that's all i need to know for now, if I'm wrong please say so.


Gravity's effect comes only through the particle's mass.Shape or density is irrelevant.So you should take into account for each particle the force of gravity:[itex]F=mg[/itex].Of course,this in the simple case that the particles are not very heavy and very close together and that the gravitationa field of the Earth is assumed constant.If not,then certain corrections need to be made.

As for the friction with air,assume air is a Newtonian viscous fluid and that the particles are spherical with not a big radius and do not move very fast.Then u can use Stokes formula which gives the kinetic friction force:[itex]\vec{F}_{fr}=6\pi\eta r\vec{v}[/itex],where [itex]\eta[/itex] is one of the two viscosity coefficients (i don't know which,kinetic/dynamical),[itex]r[/itex] is the radius of the particle assumed sphere,and [itex]\vec{v}[/itex] is the particle's velocity vector.

Daniel.
 
Ah ok, thanks.

I don't know the term viscosity (at least, i don't know what it is in dutch), i found a translation and it's translated as stickyness, i think i will search for some viscosity tables to get a better idea of what it exactly means.

Thanks.
 
I don't really understand the formula:

You say it's:

[itex]\vec{F}_{fr}=6\pi\eta r\vec{v}[/itex]

So for aparticle with a radius of one cm in air ([tex]\eta[/tex]=0.15 cm[tex]^2 s^-1[/tex]) that would be:
[tex]\vec{F}_{fr}=6\pi *0.15*1.0*\vec{v}[/tex]
?

That doesn't seem right, did i do anything wrong?
 
Last edited:
Tree Penguin said:
I don't really understand the formula:

You say it's:

[itex]\vec{F}_{fr}=6\pi\eta r\vec{v}[/itex]

So for aparticle with a radius of one cm in air ([tex]\eta[/tex]=0.15 cm[tex]^2 s^-1[/tex]) that would be:
[tex]\vec{F}_{fr}=6\pi *0.15*1.0*\vec{v}[/tex]
?

Yep,but you have to put the velocity with CGS units,i.e.in cm/s.

Daniel.

EDIT:The Stokes formula is with density (of the particle/sphere) instead of radius.U could have seen the units didn't match.Sorry. :blushing: I have't used it i decades.
I believe now it's okay.
 
Thanks, np.

So that means particles of the same density, no matter what size, slow down at the same rate?
 
Tree Penguin said:
Thanks, np.

So that means particles of the same density, no matter what size, slow down at the same rate?

No,it's radius after all.I'm sorry,i have't worked with fluid dynamics in a while and i have forgotten that they use other convention for forces.I believe Clausius can tell you more about Stokes force.

Anyway,here's some help.
help

Daniel.
 
  • #10
Thanks, that helped, i still got a question though, the final equation is:

6*PI*viscosity*radius* 'free stream velocity'

How can it be that the particle mass isn't used, that would mean any particle (paper or rock) will go through just as easy. I don't know what the 'free stream velocity' really is so that could be my problem, what does it mean?
 
  • #11
Tree Penguin said:
Thanks, that helped, i still got a question though, the final equation is:
6*PI*viscosity*radius* 'free stream velocity'
How can it be that the particle mass isn't used, that would mean any particle (paper or rock) will go through just as easy. I don't know what the 'free stream velocity' really is so that could be my problem, what does it mean?

I guess it's the velocity of the particle in the air assumed motionless.There were two formulas on the page.One for a motionless particle and moving fluid,and one for a moving particle in static (viscous) fluid.I guess you can make the symplifying assumption that the fluid is motionless.In the end,it's tha particles behavior that you're interested in,right??
Apparently for a RIGID sphere only size matters in computing the force.It's independent of mass or density,but rather of volume through the sphere's radius.

Daniel.
 
  • #12
Ok thanks, i got these questions left:

As a reference, what is the terminal velocity of a particle of sand in the air?

And, in <a href="http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/TerminalVelocity.html">this article</a> there is/are the costant(s) C and D or CD, what are they?

Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 41 ·
2
Replies
41
Views
5K
  • · Replies 94 ·
4
Replies
94
Views
7K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
6K
  • · Replies 43 ·
2
Replies
43
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K