- #1
Curious45
- 39
- 0
Hi there!
I understand the tendency of physicists to stick to the math, and the logic itself, and to often avoid attempting to conceptualize a process or law, but that's kinda the opposite of what I'd like to do here.
I don't mind at all if you refer to the theory, math or logic, and id quite like that, but I am attempting here to conceptually comprehend the stuff. I am a little math freindly, and very concept, logic and word freindly.
I don't understand quantum physics well, I admit. I certainly don't follow the math. But conceptually I understand some of it.
What confuses me conceptually, are things like entanglement, virtual particles, quantum foam & zero point energy.
First, the foamy stuff. Space, apparently, is not empty. Its full of virtual particle pairs popping in and out of existence, apparently due to, or justified mathmatically by HUP. Additionally, even at the lowest energy state, energy is still popping out of the "vacuum", in the form of ZPE, or the ZP field. But that still to me, does not explain, causally what actually creates these phenomena. Why does the virtual particle pair pop up? Why does the ZPE pop up? Where or what does it come from?
If all effects have causes, what causes these, and what causes those causes?...could we follow that truck back up the line a bit, in a way that someone not very physics math saavy can understand?
It seems to me, in this case, conceptually, a little like if particles or energy, are coming into existence, then they must be being created by something. And that something should be an actual something, not an equation, or an expression of "random". Especially because some of this quantum foam actually apparently causes the higgs boson, and that gives things mass via its field, and other virtual particles do other important stuff. This "stuff from nowhere" seems to sit at the heart of how everything works. Which at least atm, doesn't make any conceptual sense, unless it does actually come from "somewhere" and we just don't know where that "where" is, or can't yet measure it.
Please bear with me if I have got something wrong, or if I am expressing this in a conceptual way, even an inaccurate conceptual way. I want to understand it, in a true mental fashion.
...
And then entanglement. This is also confusing. I here physicists often say that this is explained by the separated particles having the same identity.
But if that's true, doesn't that pervert our concept of space/identity/locality and have huge implications? If one thing, can exist in two places, even vastly different places, then conceptually that would seem to imply that space is not merely curved, but folds over on itself, or even that space or locality is not strictly real?
(So far as I know, quantum theory does not itself propose a curved spacetime)
Perhaps not everyone interprets particles pairs like this, and if not id like to hear any other conceptions.
As a total layman (I have read a few books on physics), it would seem logical to imagine that we should abandon completely any Newtonian conception of space or matter, and perhaps adopt something with a non-local basis, where there are connections between "spaces", or perhaps even a hidden variable type concept where there are other "spaces" or energies that we cannot currently measure. This "other"/unmeasured could explain particle pairs, light particle wave duality, quantum uncertainty, virtual particles, zero point energy and so forth, at least conceptually, so that the mind could hold it as a concept retaining a logical sense of causality.
I know this may seem grossly wrong or primitive, but I can't really logically, spacially or causation wise understand these phenomena well with what little explanation or conception they are usually given.
I would quite like to have another conceptual model that fits with the standard model, if anybody has any metaphors or concepts that I can achieve this with?!
Any suggestions, models or ideas would be great. Thanks!
I understand the tendency of physicists to stick to the math, and the logic itself, and to often avoid attempting to conceptualize a process or law, but that's kinda the opposite of what I'd like to do here.
I don't mind at all if you refer to the theory, math or logic, and id quite like that, but I am attempting here to conceptually comprehend the stuff. I am a little math freindly, and very concept, logic and word freindly.
I don't understand quantum physics well, I admit. I certainly don't follow the math. But conceptually I understand some of it.
What confuses me conceptually, are things like entanglement, virtual particles, quantum foam & zero point energy.
First, the foamy stuff. Space, apparently, is not empty. Its full of virtual particle pairs popping in and out of existence, apparently due to, or justified mathmatically by HUP. Additionally, even at the lowest energy state, energy is still popping out of the "vacuum", in the form of ZPE, or the ZP field. But that still to me, does not explain, causally what actually creates these phenomena. Why does the virtual particle pair pop up? Why does the ZPE pop up? Where or what does it come from?
If all effects have causes, what causes these, and what causes those causes?...could we follow that truck back up the line a bit, in a way that someone not very physics math saavy can understand?
It seems to me, in this case, conceptually, a little like if particles or energy, are coming into existence, then they must be being created by something. And that something should be an actual something, not an equation, or an expression of "random". Especially because some of this quantum foam actually apparently causes the higgs boson, and that gives things mass via its field, and other virtual particles do other important stuff. This "stuff from nowhere" seems to sit at the heart of how everything works. Which at least atm, doesn't make any conceptual sense, unless it does actually come from "somewhere" and we just don't know where that "where" is, or can't yet measure it.
Please bear with me if I have got something wrong, or if I am expressing this in a conceptual way, even an inaccurate conceptual way. I want to understand it, in a true mental fashion.
...
And then entanglement. This is also confusing. I here physicists often say that this is explained by the separated particles having the same identity.
But if that's true, doesn't that pervert our concept of space/identity/locality and have huge implications? If one thing, can exist in two places, even vastly different places, then conceptually that would seem to imply that space is not merely curved, but folds over on itself, or even that space or locality is not strictly real?
(So far as I know, quantum theory does not itself propose a curved spacetime)
Perhaps not everyone interprets particles pairs like this, and if not id like to hear any other conceptions.
As a total layman (I have read a few books on physics), it would seem logical to imagine that we should abandon completely any Newtonian conception of space or matter, and perhaps adopt something with a non-local basis, where there are connections between "spaces", or perhaps even a hidden variable type concept where there are other "spaces" or energies that we cannot currently measure. This "other"/unmeasured could explain particle pairs, light particle wave duality, quantum uncertainty, virtual particles, zero point energy and so forth, at least conceptually, so that the mind could hold it as a concept retaining a logical sense of causality.
I know this may seem grossly wrong or primitive, but I can't really logically, spacially or causation wise understand these phenomena well with what little explanation or conception they are usually given.
I would quite like to have another conceptual model that fits with the standard model, if anybody has any metaphors or concepts that I can achieve this with?!
Any suggestions, models or ideas would be great. Thanks!
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