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Hmoob
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What kind of knowledge do independent invent0rs have? Do they have knowledge in all the areas of engineering?
Thanks!
Thanks!
thE3nigma said:I have wondered where inventors get most of their studying done? Is it self-study or is it from their education in school? Also have there ever been inventors that seemed to show no promise while at school, and then all of a sudden became something big?
Topher925 said:I think the secret to being a successful inventor is not to let your formal education stifle your creativity, which it seems that many institutions do so well.
Topher925 said:However, these days I think most successful inventors have a very strong educational background and are people that devote their lives to science and/or engineering. Of course there will still be exceptions to this. I think the secret to being a successful inventor is not to let your formal education stifle your creativity, which it seems that many institutions do so well.
Hmoob said:This was what I was trying to get at. I just don't see how one can make a living, in today's world, without a degree. I would absolutely love to self-teach only, because I already do, but I can't see how I can make a living without a degree. In the past, I think there were many career oppurtunities that pay decently for people who weren't formally educated, so this gave them more time to themselves to pursue their interests. In today's world, you need 4 years of college to even be able to make a living because of the dissapearing jobs.
The only reason I am attending college is because I see that as the only way to make a decent living.
Do you guys agree that a college degree is the only way to make a living in Today's world?
Moonbear said:It's not the only way to make a living in the world, but a university degree does give you a lot more opportunities for ways to earn that living, and to enjoy more challenges and satisfaction from their jobs.
As was mentioned by Topher, above, the vast majority of inventors today have formal education in the field they are working into create these inventions...or in a very closely related field. Of course, a lot of inventions are also not just created by one person, but are the work product of a team of people with the company getting the patent rights.
Hmoob said:I think it's much tougher for a single person (independent inventors) to invent in today's world because everything is so specialized. For people to properly invent things, they need to know the fundamentals of all the engineering disiplines, all the sciences, etc... This is why I like self teach, because when you are trying to build something and get stuck on a portion having to do with physics, you can just go look it up study it, whereas in a formal education, you learn things seperately so its tougher to understand how all the different studies interrelate and work together.
I also fail to see how getting a formal education helps me" enjoy more challenges and satisfaction from their jobs." I think formal education is conformity because you're getting taught a single standard of study that someone thought was good, and that can't lead to creative or diverse students. Everyone thinks the same way because they're taught the same way, whereas if you self teach or home school, conformity is impossible because there's no outside influences. I think this is why self-taught inventors like tesla and edison had the greatest impact on humankind.
I truly wish there there was a standard exam in each field of study where anyone who passes it automatically receives a degree in it.
Hmoob said:I also fail to see how getting a formal education helps me" enjoy more challenges and satisfaction from their jobs." I think formal education is conformity because you're getting taught a single standard of study that someone thought was good, and that can't lead to creative or diverse students. Everyone thinks the same way because they're taught the same way, whereas if you self teach or home school, conformity is impossible because there's no outside influences.
Hmoob said:I truly wish there there was a standard exam in each field of study where anyone who passes it automatically receives a degree in it.
Moonbear said:Second, your impression that formal education teaches conformity is extremely misinformed. We're talking university degrees here, not high school. A university degree teaches you to think for yourself and self-learn. Those who wander through their university classes in a daze and just trying to memorize things the professor tells them are not successful. The education ensures you have the foundation of knowledge anyone in the field should have, and then challenges the student to learn to think critically and reason through novel problems. It is not about finding the one right answer in the one method taught by the teacher. In fact, I've been known to put up questions for my students in which I tell them there is no answer (in reality, there is, but it's not the point for them to find that answer based on the information given, because what I present is not sufficient to get all the way to the final answer). What I ask them to do is to think about a possible answer, and justify it. I leave out enough information that there are multiple possible answers, and sometimes they still come up with a good one that isn't something I considered or within the scope of what I taught. It's the process of reasoning and providing support for their answers that is important. I know many of them hate me for it right now, because my class is hard and they don't all do well in it. I don't really mind, because I know they really had to learn something and that every student who passed is competent in the content knowledge. My hope is that they will appreciate what they learned more in retrospect than in the present, when they realize they were handed the tools to think through problems, not just regurgitate answers I've handed them.
chiro said:Theres a good topic for debate in what you stated. A lot of people do have the ability to self-learn many different crafts of which crafts do include areas of scientific learning. Often the person who is a lot more motivated at what they do will be a lot better and have a lot more skill than the average person in that particular area. Examples like Faraday and Tesla come to mind.
I guess the problem then is standardization. In modern times, if people are going to work together in any form be it in an industrial setting or in something more informal, when people are going to work with one another (and that's the case for nearly anything where people want to accomplish something major), then people need to have a benchmark where they can set a standard for knowledge, acquired skill, and level of training (and perhaps in some cases ability as well although this can be implicit). If everyone was a Nikola Tesla then ok, but even then we would need to have a level where people can work together effectively to communicate, to learn, to facilitate each others knowledge.
You can make it through but there's a good reasons for standardization. Think about any sector of human labour, and think of what would happen if there was no standardization. My guess would be that it be more detrimental than anything to the sector. IT has different forms of standardization. Engineering has it (imagine if it didn't). Mathematics has it. Science has it. If it didn't exist everyone would be trying to speak a different language to everyone else and that is not a good solution to get things done.
Moonbear said:First, I said "university degree." You can balk all you want at it, but that degree is what gets your foot in the door. Without it, many job opportunities will simply be closed to you because the degree is a requirement for the position.
Second, your impression that formal education teaches conformity is extremely misinformed. We're talking university degrees here, not high school. A university degree teaches you to think for yourself and self-learn.
Those who wander through their university classes in a daze and just trying to memorize things the professor tells them are not successful.
The education ensures you have the foundation of knowledge anyone in the field should have, and then challenges the student to learn to think critically and reason through novel problems.
It is not about finding the one right answer in the one method taught by the teacher. In fact, I've been known to put up questions for my students in which I tell them there is no answer (in reality, there is, but it's not the point for them to find that answer based on the information given, because what I present is not sufficient to get all the way to the final answer). What I ask them to do is to think about a possible answer, and justify it. I leave out enough information that there are multiple possible answers, and sometimes they still come up with a good one that isn't something I considered or within the scope of what I taught.
It's the process of reasoning and providing support for their answers that is important. I know many of them hate me for it right now, because my class is hard and they don't all do well in it.
not just regurgitate answers I've handed them.
Hmoob said:Well, everyone needs to know fundamentals of all the sciences so there isn't any miscommunication between. I'm sure you know that a geologist won't understand a physicist and vice-versa. Everything in the universe is interrelated and so we can't understand it if our studies aren't interrelated also. If Universities aren't so busy trying to make so much money, most people can learn what they learn in 4 years, in less than a year. All students really need are the educational resources that Universities have, like books, internets, labs, etc...
I do think there needs to be something in place where one has to prove he/she has the skills to get a degree or license. But I don't think the credit system is efficient, it's just a way for universities to make money. I think what needs to be done is have standard exams (which can be written or hands-on or both over a period of time) and whoever can pass it knows how to work in their field. This would be the best way because everyone learns in a different way, which means they will create things in different ways.
Vanadium 50 said:It's clear you don't feel your university experience is valuable. I would suggest that you are wasting your time, and recommend you try something elese - perhaps a transfer to a place that you will find more to your liking.
chiro said:I think you'd be surprised about resources being available to people. There are lots of people that make their resources available to the public in almost any area of scientific endeavour and there's not much stopping someone going to a university bookstore or a 2nd hand bookstore purchasing textbooks and relevant notes. The amount of learning material for physics for example that can be sourced for no cost whatsoever is quite numerous.
Also the fact that not everyone is a naturally curious being is another challenge that could prevent such a method from becoming mainstream. Lots of people are lazy and not willing to teach themself. Of course if everyone found something they were interested in and actually focused on that then this would be kind of irrelevant as ones natural curiosity would come into play here.
Like I mentioned before the actuarial societies provide a system of self-education. It's examinable and is done more or less in a university style manner with the exception that the exams are open everyone for a set fee that have any educational background. Perhaps a similar system could be adopted whereby people just do the exam and pay the exam fee and if they pass they get a certificate saying they passed the exam. This would basically provide a way for people that have self-learned to prove themselves to a standardized examining committee for a small fee that would cover exam-marking time. In this way people could pay for the tuition seperately to the exam. This would be beneficial as if someone fails they can simply retake the exam without retaking the entire course. It seems like a very good system that it is already in use and seems to work for the people that make use of it.
You could use the same thing for lab examinations as well if need be. So I guess in this system people would simply learn by themselves and then just turn up to the examinations and attempt to pass them. But like I said before not everyone is naturally curious and thus not always suitable for such a system. But it could work.
Independent inventors are individuals who come up with original ideas and inventions on their own, without the support or funding of a larger organization. Other scientists typically work in teams and have access to resources and equipment provided by their institution.
Independent inventors acquire knowledge through a variety of means, including research, experimentation, trial and error, and collaboration with other inventors or experts in their field. They may also attend conferences and workshops to learn about new techniques and technologies.
While formal education is not a requirement for becoming an independent inventor, it can certainly provide a strong foundation of knowledge in a particular field. Many independent inventors have a background in science, technology, engineering, or mathematics (STEM) fields, which can help them understand and develop their inventions.
Independent inventors often stay up-to-date by actively seeking out new information and staying connected with other inventors and experts in their field. They may also read scientific journals, attend conferences and workshops, and participate in online communities and forums.
Yes, there can be challenges for independent inventors in acquiring and applying knowledge. They may have limited resources and funding compared to larger organizations, which can make it difficult to conduct research and develop their inventions. They may also face legal and financial barriers in protecting and commercializing their inventions.