Is the US National Debt Reaching a Dangerous Tipping Point?

[FlexGunship]

8: University in Indiana studying why young men do not like to wear condoms ($221,355)"[/I]

They got money for that study?! Give me $30 and I'll lecture you on the topic.

 

[Oltz]

To tell you the truth I am more worried about our Water, Sewage and Electric lines then the roads. They are equally important and in worse shape and people do not see them everyday. The point is we do not need to borrow more when funding already exists for these projects we just need to use it more wisely.

 

[FlexGunship]

To tell you the truth I am more worried about our Water, Sewage and Electric lines then the roads. They are equally important and in worse shape and people do not see them everyday. The point is we do not need to borrow more when funding already exists for these projects we just need to use it more wisely.

Locally, our power lines seem to be well served by PSNH. I haven't heard of water or sewage problems in my area, but winter wreaks havoc on small roads. So I guess the problems vary from area to area.

 

[WhoWee]

Locally, our power lines seem to be well served by PSNH. I haven't heard of water or sewage problems in my area, but winter wreaks havoc on small roads. So I guess the problems vary from area to area.

Our local power companies also do a good job. As for water and sewer - the housing boom was accompanied by improvements to the various systems - wasn't it?

 

[Oltz]

For some data about the state of our infrastructure

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/report-cards"

Check out some of the specific field reports

 

[Oltz]

Our local power companies also do a good job. As for water and sewer - the housing boom was accompanied by improvements to the various systems - wasn't it?

The problem is most major cities have a sewage system that was desgined for a smaller population and built to last ~75 years and are over capacity and over age limits. For instance a bunch of pipes in the Pittsburgh area are over 100 years old and could fail at any time. In all areas things need worked on and it is location specific as to what the "major" issue is.

 

[WhoWee]

For some data about the state of our infrastructure

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/report-cards"

Check out some of the specific field reports

Energy needs $10 Billion LESS than parks and recreation?

 

[mheslep]

If Pittsburgh needs a new sewer system why doesn't Pittsburgh pay to put one in?

 

[WhoWee]

The problem is most major cities have a sewage system that was desgined for a smaller population and built to last ~75 years and are over capacity and over age limits. For instance a bunch of pipes in the Pittsburgh area are over 100 years old and could fail at any time. In all areas things need worked on and it is location specific as to what the "major" issue is.

Yet new development was accompanied by sewer and water, roads, and power.

http://www.northhillsmonthly.com/201101/perspective.php

"NHMM: The new Pittsburgh International Airport was a landmark improvement. That was when—the early 1990s?

Onorato: It was 1992, and it was an important improvement; not only the airport, but all of the surrounding land. A decade ago, there were no water lines, no sewer lines or anything. Today we’ve built roads, water and sewer lines, and we have modern developments. There are about 15 separate developments that have been created near or on the airport property that didn’t exist just 10 years ago. Economic development is building on those old industrial sites and putting in the necessary infrastructure, whether that’s on brownfield sites or at the airport or wherever—it is probably the biggest change in the county."

 

[FlexGunship]

Energy needs $10 Billion LESS than parks and recreation?

Technically Parks and Recreation needs $0.0 Billion to operate properly, but people can't keep from mucking it all up.

If Pittsburgh needs a new sewer system why doesn't Pittsburgh pay to put one in?

That's so naive. You can't expect people to actually pay for the stuff they want and need. Heartless Republican!

 

[WhoWee]

If Pittsburgh needs a new sewer system why doesn't Pittsburgh pay to put one in?

The City of Pittsburgh has unique challenges as per geography - costs more to do everything. Another problem is the surrounding areas along the rivers are comprised of small Burroughs (cities). Some of them maintain their own sewage operations and have experienced both an aging and declining population along with industry/job losses. The environment is cleaner - but jobs are few (IMO). A community of 4,000 with 2,000 retirees, 1,000 Section 8 tenants, and 1,000 (250-500 working) people - have difficulty maintaining a water works.

 

[mheslep]

A community of 4,000 with 2,000 retirees, 1,000 Section 8 tenants, and 1,000 (250-500 working) people - have difficulty maintaining a water works.

And a community of 4000 does not need much of a water works.

 

[mheslep]

The City of Pittsburgh has unique challenges as per geography - costs more to do everything.

Cost more than where? New York city? San Francisco? I don't think so.

 

[Oltz]

Why should I we fund a high speed rail in Cali?

Fine with me Lower federal taxes get them out of all infrastructure that does not cross state lines and create a county income tax.

In fact get them out of everything that does not cross state lines.


The sewers of pittsburgh was one specific example the point is a commuter city like pittsburgh that has not changed its city limits in my lifetime has a relativly small population to fund anything.

Pittsburgh is considered the 59th largest city in the country but keep in mind its city limits have never changed if the city limits were expanded to include th suburbs it would become the 10th an increase of roughly 1 million people who legally do not live in Pittsburgh but would tell you that's where they are from (including me) instead we have boroughs and townships and towns all touching each other and nobody wants to merge as it would mean joining schools and police/fire departments and everything else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population"

 

[WhoWee]

And a community of 4000 does not need much of a water works.

My point is the facilities exist and must be maintained. One of the problems include river flooding into the plants.

There are multiple plants in Allegheny County.
http://www.achd.net/pdw/index.html

"The Public Drinking Water Division (PDW) is responsible for the inspection and oversight of 78 public water systems in Allegheny County, which serve 99% of the County's residents. Systems regulated include facilities such as the City of Pittsburgh Water Treatment Plant, to small systems serving less than 50 people, to water vending machines. All of these facilities are regulated under the Pennsylvania Safe Drinking Water Act, the primary purpose of which is to assure that proper water treatment is being performed and to reduce the threat of biological and chemical pollutants through proper treatment and monitoring."

Population 1.2 million.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/42/42003.html

 

[WhoWee]

Cost more than where? New York city? San Francisco? I don't think so.

I should have specified - more than in other locations in the region - such as Cleveland or Erie.

 

[Oltz]

Cost more than where? New York city? San Francisco? I don't think so.

Everything that enters the city needs to go through a tunnel or over a mountian and then across a bridge. there is approximatly 2 sq miles of flat land in the city and that is the "downtown" area. New york is mostly flat and has port access San Fran also has port access as well as a roadsystem that was designed by an engineer as the city expanded.

For instance the small town I live in was founded in 1680 something (9 miles south of center of downtown) the only options for getting into town are 2 lane roads with 35 mile an hour speed limits and red lights every couple hundred yards. Crossing through more then a dozen police jurisdictions. It takes 45 minutes to get into town without traffic. Or you can drive 30 miles and cricle around and come in I-279 and it still takes 45 minutes without traffic.

Anyway let's get back on topic

 

[mheslep]

New york is mostly flat and has port access San Fran also has port access as well as a roadsystem that was designed by an engineer as the city expanded.

And have tidal water flows and hydraulic water tables to deal with and an extremely high land values, labor costs, etc.

 

[Oltz]

And have tidal water flows and hydraulic water tables to deal with and an extremely high land values, labor costs, etc.

Land values and Labor costs are Geography now?

I never said most expensive I also do not think it matters every location will have its problems. Regardless infrastructuire spending is important but it should not be debt spending and perferabbly not federal funding at all.

 

[mheslep]

...problems. Regardless infrastructuire spending is important but it should not be debt spending and perferabbly not federal funding at all.

Agreed.

 

[FlexGunship]

Agreed.

Thirded.

 

[John Creighto]

I read something interesting today:

" New rules taking effect in the course of the decade will force banks to set aside at least minimal sums to cover the risk of government bonds. The so-called Basel III banking rules approved by the G-20 last year would require banks to hold capital reserves equal to at least 3 percent of all their holdings, regardless of the perceived risk. That rule, intended to prevent banks from taking on too much leverage or gaming banking regulations, would also apply to government bonds. But the rule, known as a leverage ratio, would not take effect until 2018 and could still change."

http://www.americanfuture.net/tag/european-central-bank/

I wonder what implications this will have on future interest rates on government debt.

 

[MarcoD]

I finally figured it out. It's all political humbug, the 40 cts on the dollar borrowing being bad.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/08/americans-got-much-poorer-last-quarter/

The US didn't get any poorer, the debt is shifting from households to the government. They are just keeping the equilibrium in place at a lower interest rate.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I like the idea of capping debt to 1% under GDP.

 

[MarcoD]

I like the idea of capping debt to 1% under GDP.

Yeah well, I don't understand economics, it's just a theory.

 

[mheslep]

I like the idea of capping debt to 1% under GDP.

The Republicans just tried something like that by blocking the debt limit increase for awhile. The Democrat's heads almost exploded.

http://img2-2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/Head-Explosion/mars-attacks_300.jpg

 

[edpell]

I still think wowwees point about towns that can not afford to maintain infrastructure is important.

 

[Office_Shredder]

How did these places originally afford to build this expensive infrastructure that they're no longer capable of maintaining?

 

[AlephZero]

How did these places originally afford to build this expensive infrastructure that they're no longer capable of maintaining?

Probably "One settler, one pick, one shovel." Life was simpler back then.

Sewer repair and construction in London, 1845:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/16/article-2038281-0DEEAD2000000578-290_310x440_popup.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/16/article-2038281-0DEEAC4200000578-969_310x440_popup.jpg

 

[feathermoon]

Given the huge chunk of our budget health care takes every year, perhaps instead of concerning ourselves with cutting this program or that, and frankly whining, people should get off their lazy boys, exercise, and stop having preventable illnesses?

If anyone's to blame, its everyone.

 

[Gokul43201]

Latest report from the CBO:http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=12699

A new budget report released Tuesday predicts the government will run a $1.1 trillion deficit in the fiscal year that ends in September, a slight dip from last year but still very high by any measure.

The Congressional Budget Office report also says that annual deficits will remain in the $1 trillion range for the next several years if Bush-era tax cuts slated to expire in December are extended, as commonly assumed.

The CBO study also predicts modest economic growth of 2 percent this year and forecasts that the unemployment rate will remain above 8 percent this year. That is based on an assumption that President Barack Obama will fail to win renewal of payroll tax cuts and jobless benefits by the end of next month.
...
The CBO report shows that the deficit dilemma would largely be solved if the tax cuts enacted in 2001 and 2003 — and renewed in 2010 through the end of this year — were allowed to lapse. Under that scenario, the deficit would drop to $585 billion in 2013 and to $220 billion in 2017.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57368817/federal-budget-deficit-to-dip-to-$1.1t-cbo-says/

Congressional Budget Office reports another $1 trillion deficit

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/72205.html

 

[MarcoD]

The odd thing is that despite the growing public debt, the interest on public debt remains really low -probably that low that value is being destroyed,- for which I have no explanation except for that the money doesn't have anywhere else to go.

Is there anyone who really understands that phenomenon? I have an hypothesis that with the housing bubble that much money was created that, after it deflated, all that money has to move from private to public debt or otherwise the financial system blows up. But that hypothesis may well be horsedung.

And I am still not sure whether federal public debt is 70% or 100% of US GDP since different numbers are sometimes reported. What are the real numbers?

 

[WhoWee]

Latest report from the CBO:http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=12699

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57368817/federal-budget-deficit-to-dip-to-$1.1t-cbo-says/

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/72205.html

I have to wonder how the CBO can make projections?
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/...light-1-000th-day-since-senate-174736897.html

"The last time the Senate passed a traditional year-long budget was April 29, 2009. While this is considered a vital role for congress, the promotions arguably overstate the gravity of this failure to act. The congressional budget is just an outline for recommended spending levels, and does not direct appropriators to divvy out funds in any exact manner. As the Peter G. Peterson Foundation explains, "While budget resolutions are not laws, and the Congress can act on funding and revenue legislation without first adopting budget resolution, they can enforce good fiscal discipline."

In the days leading up to Obama's address, Republicans appeared to delight in being able to point out all that has happened in the world within 1,000 days. "912 days elapsed b/t Pearl Harbor & D-Day," read a post Tuesday morning on the Republican Study Committee's Twitter feed. "It's been #1000days since Senate Dems passed a budget."

"The last time they passed a budget, you had never heard of the iPad," a post on the group's website read, complete with a video hammering the point home. "Tiger Woods was only known for his golfing abilities. General Motors had never declared bankruptcy. You had never heard of Swine Flu. And the national debt was $4 trillion smaller than it is today."
" my bold

 

[MarcoD]

I reasoned the US debt is 70% GDP, so I think everybody can stop worrying.

The US position is -I think- completely comparable to someone who has $70 debt, and knows that he will spend $30 in the future. Since he knows that, he writes an IOU of $30, and gives himself $30. His total debt now is $100, but he owns $30. All interest on the debt of $30, he just pays to himself.

For the rest I think the US is just borrowing against the $2T Europe probably lost on the housing bubble, so the US can buy for another twenty years of trade deficit against Europe.

Looks to me the US is super healthy, and I am starting to believe Europeans are complete idiots.

 

[MarcoD]

God, now I am confused, or I was? The question is of course, did you spend the $30?