Any ideas on the potential overpopulation of the planet?

[mee]

Any ideas on the potential overpopulation of the planet? How close are we? Solutions?

 

[BlackVision]

Overpopulation is a problem in 3rd world countries. But almost all 1st world countries have either 0 or near 0 population growth. In fact many 1st world countries have negative growth. England for example has negative growth and only becomes balanced out by immigration.

The solution is utimately in each country's hands as another country cannot dictate how many kids another country may have.

 

[Njorl]

Overpopulation is generally a problem in modernizing agrarian peoples. They maintain an agrarian culture, requiring large families, but no longer have short lifespans. They also do not require as much labor, because of modern agricultural techniques. With less farm labor necessary, but more people, cities swell. More industrial and service jobs are created, and the culture changes.

Ideally, that's how it goes. It is never that simple though. Traditions, religions and political oportunists often complicate things.

Njorl

 

[Andre]

Well,

From a strickly neutral but most certainly absolutely strickly neutral point of view: Certain Human races are getting themselves extinct eventually, also the normal average IQ and it's spectrum of humanity as a whole is bound to decrease gradually in a couple of generations.

But it's a can of worms. I realize that. So I repeat, it's just a neutral observation. Extremely neutral.

 

[marcus]

Well,

... Certain Human races are getting themselves extinct eventually, ...
But it's a can of worms. I realize that. So I repeat, it's just a neutral observation. Extremely neutral.

Pim almost got elected
if that crazy guy had not shot him would he have been prime minister?
he had some politically acceptable formula if I remember correctly.
one that (to most dutch voters) did not seem morally and philosophically repugnant
what did you think, was Pim OK or not OK?

I tend to think of dutch voters as reasonable people
(they would not elect George Bush for example)
but then I have no direct knowledge, only guesses and vague impressions

what is the dutch equivalent to "can of worms"?

 

[Nereid]

Well,

From a strickly neutral but most certainly absolutely strickly neutral point of view: Certain Human races are getting themselves extinct eventually, also the normal average IQ and it's spectrum of humanity as a whole is bound to decrease gradually in a couple of generations.

But it's a can of worms. I realize that. So I repeat, it's just a neutral observation. Extremely neutral.

What is a 'human race'?

How does Andre define such a beast, from a "most certainly absolutely strickly neutral point of view"?

 

[hitssquad]

What is a human race

What is a 'human race'?

• Main Entry: 7race
  Pronunciation: "
  Function: noun
  Inflected Form: -s
  Etymology: Middle French, generation, family, from Italian razza
  
  
  3 : any of various infraspecific taxonomic groups: as a : MICROSPECIES b : SUBSPECIES c : a permanent or fixed variety d : BREED e : PHYSIOLOGIC RACE f : a division of mankind possessing traits that are transmissible by descent and sufficient to characterize it as a distinct human type <Caucasian race> <Mongoloid race>

Human is a species. A human race would be a subspecies of the species human.

 

[Andre]

Pim almost got elected

Off topic. We are discussing science not politics.

if that crazy guy had not shot him would he have been prime minister?

Off topic, unless you want to show an elaborate statistics calculation.

he had some politically acceptable formula if I remember correctly.
one that (to most dutch voters) did not seem morally and philosophically repugnant.

Off topic, where is the scientific factor?

what did you think, was Pim OK or not OK?

Off topic science does not deal with opinion just facts and intepretations.

I have wondered considerable time, why talking about so unrelated things but I seem to understand now. It's called "ad hominem" or at least the introduction to that. So I do wonder what you have for me next.

I knew it, "de knuppel in het hoenderhok" or the "cudgel in the hen house", or "put the cat among the pigeons", "flutter the dovecotes", "drop a brick".

BTW Race and subspecies are not the same.

A race is a geographically circumscribed population or set of populations that differ from all other populations of a species.

Subspecies; a race given formal taxonomic recognition by assigning a subspecies name. For example neanderthals are sometimes referred to as a subspecies of our species: Homo sapiens neanderthalensis

Antropogenist agree that there are no human races. So I should not have used that term. Sorry about that. There are etnic groups though, I believe. I wonder if Great Danes, Schautzers and Huskies are etnic groups too.

Hey I was just ready disussion population growth models and extinction models but it's all politics again. I don't know about Pim, he was a populist but his programme was highly debatable on many points. Yet I observe that the current Dutch government adopted some modifed versions of his ideas.

Now what are the changes that Huskies go extinct if you leave them before the sled for too long.

 

[Nereid]

"Ethnic groups" is a fascinating are of study! Especially those 'emigrant communities', their customs etc, when compared with the societies they 'left behind'.

I read once that the 'emigrants', who remain as a culturally distinct group, are considerably more conservative (culturally speaking) than their 'mother countries'.

For example, a trip through many of the "Chinatowns" of great cities of the world is in many ways like a trip back in time; the "Chinese" culture you can see there no longer exists in China (or Taiwan, or Hong Kong).

How about the Greeks of Melbourne (Australia), Jamaicans of London, Irish of New York, Swedes of Minnesota, Javanese of Amsterdam, Indians of Mauritius, etc?

 

[maximus]

the only solution i can see aside from war is to accept a system like that that china used in the seventies where the number of offspring is limited to two per unit. it is difficult and many people do not like it but human overpopulation is a serious problem that threatens every species on earth. although this conclusion (which previously i believed to be universally accepted) does not seem to be agreed with. BlackVision may i please see the studies that indicate population is decreasing in america and other 1st world countries at such a substancial rate? (i am not trying to be arguementative but am honostly curious)

 

[Moonbear]

Nereid, that's a fascinating point. Not at all related to overpopulation, but interesting. I've noticed that a great deal within the U.S. There are many different ethnic groups that have traditionally clustered together and form their own subcultures within the U.S. trying to hold onto old traditions that are truly old-fashioned compared to their country of origin. I've always wondered about this behavior of people. If the traditions of your former country are so important to you to the point of not wanting to adopt new traditions of a new country, why would you choose to move to a new country? What seems even stranger to me is that those people I work with from other countries who are only here visiting for a few years to receive education or training try harder to be a part of the modern American culture (whatever exactly that is) than citizens who have been here for generations originating from the same country.

Anyway, I would enjoy hearing more thoughts on this. (And apologies that I'm drifting from the original topic of this thread...if someone wants to start a new thread on this, I don't mind if my post is moved there).

 

[BlackVision]

BlackVision may i please see the studies that indicate population is decreasing in america and other 1st world countries at such a substancial rate?

See my "World Underpopulation Problem" under Social Science.

And overpopulation is NOT a problem. Underpopulation is a problem. Read that thread and you'll see why.

 

[hitssquad]

Anthropologists agree that there are no human races

Race and subspecies are not the same.

The Merriam Webster's Unabridged Dictionary v3.0 has six main noun entries for race. Those contain together 16 numbered senses and within those numbered senses 31 lettered subsenses.

• Main Entry: subsense
  Pronunciation: 'sðb+,-
  Function:noun
  Etymology: sub- + sense
  
  : a subordinate division of a sense

A race is a geographically circumscribed population or set of populations that differ from all other populations of a species.

All races are geographic races?

• Main Entry: geographic race
  Function: noun
  
  : a subdivision of a biological species coincident with a geographic region and presumably the resultant of environmental peculiarities : a geographic subspecies — called also geographical variety
  
  
  
• Main Entry: microgeographic race
  Function: noun
  
  : a highly localized and distinguishably differentiated population within a natural species

Subspecies; a race given formal taxonomic recognition by assigning a subspecies name.

• Main Entry: sub·species
  Pronunciation: |sðb+
  Function: noun
  Etymology: New Latin, from Latin sub- + species
  
  : a subdivision of a species: as a : a taxonomic category that is the lowest generally used taxon, ranks immediately below a species, and designates a morphologically distinguishable group whose members are at least partially isolated geographically but interbreed successfully with members of other subspecies of the same species where their ranges adjoin and overlap b : a named subdivision (as a race or variety) of a taxonomic species — not used technically
  synonyms see VARIETY
  
  
  
• Main Entry: va·ri·e·ty
  Pronunciation: vð'rIðd.E, -ðtE, -i
  Function: noun
  Inflected Form: -es
  Etymology:Middle French or Latin; Middle French variet*, from Latin varietat-, varietas, from varie- (from varius various) + -tat-, -tas -ty
  synonyms SUBSPECIES, RACE, BREED, STRAIN, STOCK: these words show variable uses according to the period of scientific writing in which they appear and have been used to designate closely related groups of plants or animals narrower in scope than a species. VARIETY and SUBSPECIES often apply to a group distinguished from others in a general class by characteristics too minor to constitute criteria of a species. Sometimes VARIETY designates a group produced by human research and control <a new variety of apples> SUBSPECIES indicates a subdivision of a species set off from the rest by minor or unstable differences. RACE, often a bitterly controversial word in both scientific and lay discussions, may designate a group whose distinctive characteristics set it off from other groups of the same ancestry and are likely to be inherited from generation to generation with a degree of stability <the darker races of mankind are made up of those having skins rich in melanin>
  
  
  
• Main Entry: ecological subspecies
  Function: noun
  
  : PHYSIOLOGIC RACE

Antropogenist

Do you mean anthropologists?

agree that there are no human races.

There are no morphologically peculiar groups of humans whose morphological peculiarities breed true?

There are etnic groups though, I believe.

• Main Entry: ethno-
  Function: combining form
  Etymology: French, from Late Greek, from Greek ethnos nation — more at ETHNOS
  
  1 : race, people, cultural group <ethnography> <ethnogenic>

Ethnicity seems to generally be used to refer to groups distinguishable by a combination of morphological (racial) peculiarity and cultural peculiarity, as Arthur Jensen has stated.

I wonder if Great Danes, Schautzers and Huskies are etnic groups too.

They would appear to be races.

• Main Entry: 7race
  Pronunciation: "
  Function: noun
  Inflected Form: -s
  Etymology: Middle French, generation, family, from Italian razza
  
  
  3 d : BREED

 

[Andre]

Main Entry: ethno-
Function: combining form
Etymology: French, from Late Greek, from Greek ethnos nation — more at ETHNOS

1 : race, people, cultural group

Well, is ethnic the same as race? Yet there are ethnic groups and no races. Curious.

BTW: Huskies come in http://www.lawtonok.com/images/tess.jpg ,
http://www.ustboniface.mb.ca/cusb/dnolette/Photos/2%20Siberian%20Husky.jpg

They can have blue eyes or http://www.lupus.hjem.wanadoo.dk/racer5/Siberian%20Husky.jpg . But none of them care. happy creatures. So what's the problem?

 

[Nereid]

Nereid, that's a fascinating point. Not at all related to overpopulation, but interesting. I've noticed that a great deal within the U.S. There are many different ethnic groups that have traditionally clustered together and form their own subcultures within the U.S. trying to hold onto old traditions that are truly old-fashioned compared to their country of origin. I've always wondered about this behavior of people. If the traditions of your former country are so important to you to the point of not wanting to adopt new traditions of a new country, why would you choose to move to a new country? What seems even stranger to me is that those people I work with from other countries who are only here visiting for a few years to receive education or training try harder to be a part of the modern American culture (whatever exactly that is) than citizens who have been here for generations originating from the same country.

Anyway, I would enjoy hearing more thoughts on this. (And apologies that I'm drifting from the original topic of this thread...if someone wants to start a new thread on this, I don't mind if my post is moved there).

Please start a new thread on this topic; I'd be happy to contribute!

 

[Nereid]

the only solution i can see aside from war is to accept a system like that that china used in the seventies where the number of offspring is limited to two per unit. it is difficult and many people do not like it but human overpopulation is a serious problem that threatens every species on earth. although this conclusion (which previously i believed to be universally accepted) does not seem to be agreed with. BlackVision may i please see the studies that indicate population is decreasing in america and other 1st world countries at such a substancial rate? (i am not trying to be arguementative but am honostly curious)

I believe you're referring to the 'single child policy' (it was, and still is I think, ONE child per couple, not two). There were (and still are) exceptions allowed. As you will have read by now, changing the demographic profile of a region can create economic challenges ... not insurmountable, but challenges nontheless.

 

[hitssquad]

The global hedonics cult

Ethnicity seems to generally be used to refer to groups distinguishable by a combination of morphological (racial) peculiarity and cultural peculiarity, as Arthur Jensen has stated.

is ethnic the same as race?

Ethnicity seems to generally be used to refer to groups distinguishable by a combination of morphological (racial) peculiarity and cultural peculiarity, as Arthur Jensen has stated.

there are ethnic groups and no races.

• Main Entry: 7race
  Pronunciation: "
  Function: noun
  Inflected Form: -s
  Etymology: Middle French, generation, family, from Italian razza
  
  
  3 : any of various infraspecific taxonomic groups: as a : MICROSPECIES b : SUBSPECIES c : a permanent or fixed variety d : BREED e : PHYSIOLOGIC RACE f : a division of mankind possessing traits that are transmissible by descent and sufficient to characterize it as a distinct human type <Caucasian race> <Mongoloid race>

Huskies come in black, and white or tan They can have blue eyes or black eyes.

Members of the Nordic race also have various hair and eye colors.

happy creatures.

More http://www.poynter.org/resource/10958/hartford-heroin-front.jpg .

 

[sage]

concept of race is obsolete, scientifically at least. cosequences of overpopulation is most visible in africa and in most agrarian based countries. it is not their personal problem, it is a global one and it must be viewed as such to prevent a humanitarian and environmental disaster in future.

 

[bjon-07]

I think it is not overpopulation that we have to worry about, but the amount of resorces that population is consumping. For example, here in the USA we do not have the worlds largest population but we do use most of the worlds resorces.

When we look at overpopulation we need to look at how the population is effecting the enivroment. It very well may be that a small population can do more damage to the environment than a large population.

I also fell than many 3rd world countrys are over populated.