Anyone considering a career as a patent attorney?

[Roark]

I thought of one more question

7. How can I find out if I have a talent for law besides going to law school?

 

[CrysPhys]

I thought of one more question

7. How can I find out if I have a talent for law besides going to law school?

If you want to find out whether specifically patent prosecution (not law in general) is right for you, you can apply for a position as a technical specialist at a law firm. Alternatively, you can pass the patent bar exam and apply for a position as a patent agent. I don't know what the demand for a PhD in Chem Eng right now is though; you'll need to check with some firms.

 

[CrysPhys]

1. How important is the PhD thesis topic (Both for school and job prospects)?

• I am working in a field that can be most concisely described as Physical Chemistry. Will prospective employers see my thesis work as a disadvantage compared to those who are specialized in, say, biotechnology?

Can address only job prospects (I never went to law school). Your specific PhD thesis topic per se is not important. Law firms first screen by field and degree. Note that fields such as chem eng and chem are broad and overlap, but often the first screening is with a HR software filter. If the posting is for a PhD in chemistry only [rather than chemistry or chemical engineering], your PhD in chemical engineering might not get through. You then need a special in (e.g., a personal referral to a hiring partner) for you to bypass the HR software filter and explain why, even though your degree is chem eng, you still qualify for the position. Assuming you get by the first hurdle, the next is a broad match between your research experience and the industry sectors of the firms clients: if the clients are in the oil and gas industry, and your research was related to oil and gas, then that's a good match; if the clients are in the semiconductor industry, and your research was related to semiconductor processing, then that's a good match. If you don't have a good match, whether you still get hired or not will depend on the qualifications of the other competing applicants and how quickly the firm needs to fill the position.

4. Which Asian languages can offer a competitive edge for IP lawyers?

The usual suspects: Mandarin, Japanese, and Korean. Chem Eng is not my field though, and I don't know how advantageous knowledge of those languages are for Chem Eng specifically. For fields such as semiconductors, telcom, data comm, and computers, I have seen postings in which fluency in at least one of those languages is required.

 

[Roark]

If you want to find out whether specifically patent prosecution (not law in general) is right for you, you can apply for a position as a technical specialist at a law firm. Alternatively, you can pass the patent bar exam and apply for a position as a patent agent. I don't know what the demand for a PhD in Chem Eng right now is though; you'll need to check with some firms.

What about other roles like paralegals?

I read that law firms and tech companies will help employees take the Patent Bar. I hear contrasting opinions on law school though - some say employers don't encourage pursuing a law degree while some say that employers will go as far as funding law school. What is your perspective?

Thanks for answering my questions .

 

[CrysPhys]

What about other roles like paralegals?

I read that law firms and tech companies will help employees take the Patent Bar. I hear contrasting opinions on law school though - some say employers don't encourage pursuing a law degree while some say that employers will go as far as funding law school. What is your perspective?

Thanks for answering my questions .

1. You definitely do not want to apply for a paralegal position.

(a) The responsibilities of paralegals vary with the firm and with the branch of law. But, in general, paralegals serve an administrative support role, one step up from legal secretaries. In patent prosecution specifically, they do not perform any substantive technical function: they do not prepare applications and they do not respond to office actions. They perform various functions such as: file applications and responses to office actions prepared by attorneys and agents, fill out the proper forms, pay the proper fees, track work items, and send correspondence to clients.

(b) Very few firms hire paralegal trainees. Even if you were to find a firm that does, there would be a low probability that it would hire you: a PhD in Chem Eng would likely not stick around. There are various routes to become a paralegal. Most of the paralegals I know have a two-years associates degree in paralegal studies and a paralegal certificate. Many firms further require passing a national certification exam. It makes no sense for you in your present situation to take additional coursework and exams just to become a paralegal.

(c) Even if you were to pull this off, though, being a paralegal will hurt you in the long run should you later apply for a position as a tech spec, patent agent, or patent attorney. A hiring manager would shake his head in bewilderment, “Why is a PhD in Chem Eng working as a paralegal instead of as a tech spec or patent agent?”

2. Once upon a time (pre-2000), major Megacorps (AT&T, IBM, GE, ...) had extensive in-house patent depts and had special programs in which experienced scientists and engineers with an interest in patent law could transition to a tech spec to a patent agent to a patent attorney at company expense. Such programs may still exist, but are a lot less common now. Even in the good ‘ol days though, fresh grads were not hired into these programs; they were targetted for scientists and engineers with at least 5 yrs R&D experience within the company. I assume because you are asking about law school now, you don’t want to first work in an industrial R&D lab for 5+ yrs. In which case, forget about trainee programs within a tech company.

3. That leaves you with law firms. As I mentioned previously, you can either apply for a position as a tech spec or pass the patent bar and apply for a position as a patent agent. There are a few firms that offer a career path from tech spec to patent agent to patent attorney, with at least partial subsidy for patent bar prep and part-time law school. There are more large firms that provide at least partial subsidy for part-time law school. Small and medium firms generally do not provide subsidies (although there are exceptions, if you perform well and the boss likes you). The most expensive online patent bar prep course is ~$2900, but discounted to ~$1900 if you are still a student [from your other post, I understand you have not completed your PhD yet, and are still technically a student]. You will likely have more options if you pass the patent bar on your own (shows prospective employers you’re serious about patent law), so I wouldn’t let patent bar exam expenses be a deciding factor (on top of the cost of the prep course, allow ~$500 for application, exam, and registration fees).

4. But again, before you proceed, find out what the demand for a PhD in Chem Eng is. Start with the tech transfer dept at your university. Ask for referrals to patent firms that the university uses.

 

[CrysPhys]

4. But again, before you proceed, find out what the demand for a PhD in Chem Eng is. Start with the tech transfer dept at your university. Ask for referrals to patent firms that the university uses.

5. By the way, what is your undergrad degree in? Qualifications to sit for the patent bar exam are based on your undergrad degree. Full details can be found here:

https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/OED_GRB.pdf

 

[Hector]

hi,
I like this topic and thanks for starting the conversation. I might have missed it but has anyone commented on how secure the job as a patent attorney is? (compared to non-tenure track postdoc jobs)?

 

[CrysPhys]

hi,
I like this topic and thanks for starting the conversation. I might have missed it but has anyone commented on how secure the job as a patent attorney is? (compared to non-tenure track postdoc jobs)?

Perhaps you should clarify what country you're talking about, and what you mean by "non-tenure track postdoc jobs". In the US, a postdoc is a limited-term position. Are you referring to non-tenure track faculty positions? Are you referring to industrial R&D jobs after receiving a PhD? Or something else?

 

[Hector]

Hi there, I am in Australia and postdoc life here can last 7-8 years or so (moving from one to another without being able to make it to the next level). Many academic positions here are fixed terms, only 3-4 year contracts and no promise of further employment even if they perform well and tenure positions are pretty rare. How does it work in patent attorney, do you have some job security provided that your performance is good?

 

[CrysPhys]

Hi there, I am in Australia and postdoc life here can last 7-8 years or so (moving from one to another without being able to make it to the next level). Many academic positions here are fixed terms, only 3-4 year contracts and no promise of further employment even if they perform well and tenure positions are pretty rare. How does it work in patent attorney, do you have some job security provided that your performance is good?

In that case, you should check with an Australian patent attorney before considering a career shift; I can comment only about the US. The requirements for patent practitioners (with and without law degrees) vary considerably from one country to another. So you should find out the degree, exams, and training requirements first, and also ask about long-term career stability. I can say one thing about patent law in general (regardless of country): experience is a great plus, so you're less likely to be replaced by someone younger and cheaper once you've become an experienced patent practitioner.

 

[STEREOGENIC0711]

Hello. Thank you for this thread. I found it really helpful and relevant for the career path I am planning to take.
I am currently a PhD student with a major in Chemistry and I will be graduating by next year. Afterwards, I am planning to undertake law studies for 1 year with a Master of Laws in Intellectual Property major in Transnational IP and Information Technology (LL.M). Then, I plan to undergo a 1 year traineeship in a law firm before taking the bar exam for patent attorney/agents. I participated in many summer schools and trainings that involve intellectual property law since I'm very much attracted to it.

I would like to ask for your suggestion on a more efficient way of becoming a patent attorney/agent, or recommendations with regards to my career plan.
I think I am getting old right now (25 years old) so I really should be starting to work outside the University setting. I actually did not have any other work experience aside from doing research works in the University.

Finally, I am quite confused with regards to the status I have when taking the bar exam and if I pass it, what job description would be relevant for me? Patent attorney or patent agent? I know having a Master of Laws (LL.M) degree would not make you a lawyer. From the previous discussions, I noticed that many science degree holders could become patent agents if they pass the bar exam given by the USPTO or EPO. Would LL.M holders become patent attorneys or agents when they pass the bar exam?

Thank you.

 

[CrysPhys]

Hello. Thank you for this thread. I found it really helpful and relevant for the career path I am planning to take.
I am currently a PhD student with a major in Chemistry and I will be graduating by next year. Afterwards, I am planning to undertake law studies for 1 year with a Master of Laws in Intellectual Property major in Transnational IP and Information Technology (LL.M). Then, I plan to undergo a 1 year traineeship in a law firm before taking the bar exam for patent attorney/agents. I participated in many summer schools and trainings that involve intellectual property law since I'm very much attracted to it.

I would like to ask for your suggestion on a more efficient way of becoming a patent attorney/agent, or recommendations with regards to my career plan.
I think I am getting old right now (25 years old) so I really should be starting to work outside the University setting. I actually did not have any other work experience aside from doing research works in the University.

Finally, I am quite confused with regards to the status I have when taking the bar exam and if I pass it, what job description would be relevant for me? Patent attorney or patent agent? I know having a Master of Laws (LL.M) degree would not make you a lawyer. From the previous discussions, I noticed that many science degree holders could become patent agents if they pass the bar exam given by the USPTO or EPO. Would LL.M holders become patent attorneys or agents when they pass the bar exam?

Thank you.

You need to rewind and clarify your situation. You have another post in which you introduce yourself as a new member from Japan. So are you a Japanese citizen studying in Japan and planning to work in IP in Japan? If not, please explain your situation. As I mentioned previously, the requirements to become a registered patent practitioner vary from country to country. In particular, don't co-mingle USPTO and EPO. It is also important to consider any citizenship requirements.

 

[STEREOGENIC0711]

You need to rewind and clarify your situation. You have another post in which you introduce yourself as a new member from Japan. So are you a Japanese citizen studying in Japan and planning to work in IP in Japan? If not, please explain your situation. As I mentioned previously, the requirements to become a registered patent practitioner vary from country to country. In particular, don't co-mingle USPTO and EPO. It is also important to consider any citizenship requirements.

Thank you very much for your reply. I am not a Japanese citizen though I am mixed Japanese-Filipino. I also did not elect Japanese citizenship despite living in Japan for several years now and I still hold my Philippine passport. There are fundamental differences in the USPTO, EPO, and JPO that were discussed in our course in IP law but I did not know about the nationality (Staatsangehorigkeit) requirement. Hmmm... If I consider that dilemma, would obtaining another citizenship (dual citizenship) solve the issue? Uhm, I am not planning to work for IP in Japan but in Europe because of the well-structured IP system and knowledge-based economy. Thank you.

 

[CrysPhys]

Thank you very much for your reply. I am not a Japanese citizen though I am mixed Japanese-Filipino. I also did not elect Japanese citizenship despite living in Japan for several years now and I still hold my Philippine passport. There are fundamental differences in the USPTO, EPO, and JPO that were discussed in our course in IP law but I did not know about the nationality (Staatsangehorigkeit) requirement. Hmmm... If I consider that dilemma, would obtaining another citizenship (dual citizenship) solve the issue? Uhm, I am not planning to work for IP in Japan but in Europe because of the well-structured IP system and knowledge-based economy. Thank you.

In your situation, some issues for you to consider:

(1) Titles such as "patent attorney", "patent agent", "patent engineer", and "patent representative" are not standardized internationally. Some titles are used in Country A, but not in Country B. Some titles are used in both Country A and Country B, but have different meanings with respect to qualifications and responsibilities. So what your actual position will be called will depend on the country in which you are employed.

(2) If you are specifically interested in practicing before the EPO, carefully check the requirements (such as degree, citizenship, residence, language, ...). A good place to start is here: http://www.epo.org/learning-events/eqe/about.html [note in particular the requirement to have worked as a patent trainee prior to taking the exam]. Since you are taking IP law courses, I would recommend that you ask your profs for referral to some EPO law firms; contact them directly to clarify what the work requirements are and whether they would be interested in someone with your background [if you are fluent in Japanese, that will be a plus, since many major Japanese corps file in the EPO]. Also, remember, in addition to the EPO, each European country has its own national patent office. So, if you apply to a law firm in Germany, for example, the firm may also want you to qualify to practice before the German patent office. This may entail additional requirements to those required for practicing before the EPO. Hypothetically, let's say you need to be fluent in German. Are you fluent in German? If not, should you become fluent in German prior to applying? You want to find out all these details in advance and remedy any deficiencies while you are still at the university. Do you have a preference for which European country you want to live in? As far as patent activity, an EPO patent attorney once told me that, among European countries, the country that originates the most number of patent applications is Germany. But, if you prefer the ambience in France, that's your call. But then evaluate the job opportunities in Germany vs France; again, German law firms may have different requirements from French law firms ... so you want to find out in advance.

(3) Are you planning to study for the LLM for your own interest, or because you think it will help land you a position with a law firm? If the latter, again check with law firms in advance to see whether it will in fact help you land a position or not.

 

[STEREOGENIC0711]

In your situation, some issues for you to consider:

(1) Titles such as "patent attorney", "patent agent", "patent engineer", and "patent representative" are not standardized internationally. Some titles are used in Country A, but not in Country B. Some titles are used in both Country A and Country B, but have different meanings with respect to qualifications and responsibilities. So what your actual position will be called will depend on the country in which you are employed.

(2) If you are specifically interested in practicing before the EPO, carefully check the requirements (such as degree, citizenship, residence, language, ...). A good place to start is here: http://www.epo.org/learning-events/eqe/about.html [note in particular the requirement to have worked as a patent trainee prior to taking the exam]. Since you are taking IP law courses, I would recommend that you ask your profs for referral to some EPO law firms; contact them directly to clarify what the work requirements are and whether they would be interested in someone with your background [if you are fluent in Japanese, that will be a plus, since many major Japanese corps file in the EPO]. Also, remember, in addition to the EPO, each European country has its own national patent office. So, if you apply to a law firm in Germany, for example, the firm may also want you to qualify to practice before the German patent office. This may entail additional requirements to those required for practicing before the EPO. Hypothetically, let's say you need to be fluent in German. Are you fluent in German? If not, should you become fluent in German prior to applying? You want to find out all these details in advance and remedy any deficiencies while you are still at the university. Do you have a preference for which European country you want to live in? As far as patent activity, an EPO patent attorney once told me that, among European countries, the country that originates the most number of patent applications is Germany. But, if you prefer the ambience in France, that's your call. But then evaluate the job opportunities in Germany vs France; again, German law firms may have different requirements from French law firms ... so you want to find out in advance.

(3) Are you planning to study for the LLM for your own interest, or because you think it will help land you a position with a law firm? If the latter, again check with law firms in advance to see whether it will in fact help you land a position or not.

Thank you very much for your response. I find it very relevant and informational.

1) As to this item, I am planning to study and work in Germany. I will ask my German friends concerning the conditions and policies in Germany with regards to practicing IP law, and the concomitant title that is given to them.

2) I am fluent in Japanese in a conversational and technical (Chemistry) level but not in law. Hence, I will be taking advanced Japanese courses from now on. I had a 60 hours German class in Germany last time, and now that I'm in Japan, I'm attending more classes in German. When my LL.M. studies commence, I think I could gather more information regarding the conditions on practicing IP law in Germany, and in EPO.

3) I am planning to study LL.M for my own interest. I think at this level, my knowledge on IP law is very fundamental. I think it would be better to acquire a law degree even for a 1-year study. I think, the professional connections I acquire at that time will help me further my career plans.

Once again, thank you very much! ありがとうございます。

 

[Aaron M]

Is a patent attorney an option for someone with a BSc in physics? If so how desired are there? If not, would I need to go get a PhD?

Thank you for your response

 

[CrysPhys]

Is a patent attorney an option for someone with a BSc in physics? If so how desired are there? If not, would I need to go get a PhD?

Thank you for your response

A BS in physics will satisfy the educational requirements for you to sit for the USPTO patent bar exam (assuming you meet all the other requirements). If you pass, you become a patent agent. To become a patent attorney, you need to go to law school, get a JD, pass a state bar, and pass the patent bar. So yes, it's possible for you to become a patent agent or patent attorney. Whether you will get hired by a law firm, however, is a different story. Right now, the biggest demand for those with a BS is BS EE, Comp Sci, or Comp Eng. BS Physics is a harder sell. A PhD in physics makes you more marketable. However, I never recommend that anyone get a PhD (in any field) with the sole intent of becoming a patent agent or patent attorney. But if you already have a physics PhD, and are looking for a career alternative to R&D for whatever reason, a career in IP law is one option to explore.

 

[Luke R]

Hi all!

I've been looking into a career as a patent attorney and it sounds like it would play perfectly to my aptitudes in understanding new concepts and technologies, communicating ideas, and having an eye for detail and a love for language and phrasing.

I currently have an UG MSc in Physics from a top UK uni (2.1), but have since discovered that my interests lie more in mechanical engineering. I'm considering taking a ME conversion course.

Would this be sensible? How attractive is a background in physics and ME with no industrial experience likely to be for employers? Even if I don't end up going into IP law, I feel like this is likely to open up my career options a lot.

Note: as I understand it the UK system is somewhat different to the US in that it's normal to train and qualify on the job rather than going to law school.

 

[CrysPhys]

Hi all!

I've been looking into a career as a patent attorney and it sounds like it would play perfectly to my aptitudes in understanding new concepts and technologies, communicating ideas, and having an eye for detail and a love for language and phrasing.

I currently have an UG MSc in Physics from a top UK uni (2.1), but have since discovered that my interests lie more in mechanical engineering. I'm considering taking a ME conversion course.

Would this be sensible? How attractive is a background in physics and ME with no industrial experience likely to be for employers? Even if I don't end up going into IP law, I feel like this is likely to open up my career options a lot.

Note: as I understand it the UK system is somewhat different to the US in that it's normal to train and qualify on the job rather than going to law school.

Since you need info specific to the UK, you should chat with people working at UK IP law firms. If you were at a major university with science and engineering departments, the university should have a technology transfer and intellectual property department. Ask someone there for referrals to contacts at firms that handle their transactions. In the course of your discussions, you should ask what impact [if any] BREXIT will have on IP career opportunities in the UK.

 

[AgentSmith]

I have two science degrees, neither a doctorate. I've thought of law school. but every attorney I've discussed this with has recommended against it. Its a lot of work, money is not that great, there are demands on your time, and restrictions on your behavior. One attorney said, "not just no, but he// no!"

 

[CrysPhys]

I have two science degrees, neither a doctorate. I've thought of law school. but every attorney I've discussed this with has recommended against it. Its a lot of work, money is not that great, there are demands on your time, and restrictions on your behavior. One attorney said, "not just no, but he// no!"

Do you have a question, or are you just passing on advice, based on your conversations with some attorneys, not to go to law school?

 

[savachat]

I am not sure if this thread is still alive. If it is, I would like to know what is the typical path to take to become a patent examiner or agent or attorney, when I have a PhD degree in astrophysics. Thanks.

 

[berned_you]

I am not sure if this thread is still alive. If it is, I would like to know what is the typical path to take to become a patent examiner or agent or attorney, when I have a PhD degree in astrophysics. Thanks.

At this stage you simply need to apply. No prior experience is necessary, they will train you how to do the job. https://www.uspto.gov/jobs/join-us

 

[savachat]

Thanks @berned_you. I do not see any job for physicists on USPTO website as of now. How about jobs in private law firms? What to consider when applying to the private jobs?

 

[berned_you]

Thanks @berned_you. I do not see any job for physicists on USPTO website as of now. How about jobs in private law firms? What to consider when applying to the private jobs?

For any sort of private job you will want to have taken the patent bar examination. You can self-study or take a review course. I think it's easiest and "best" to start your career in patent law at the patent office. It's not required but will be easier because they do a great job training and it'll will indicate to future employers that you can do the job.

 

[CrysPhys]

Thanks @berned_you. I do not see any job for physicists on USPTO website as of now. How about jobs in private law firms? What to consider when applying to the private jobs?

(1) With respect to a job in a law firm:

(a) You can apply immediately for a position as a technical specialist. With regard to patent prosecution, you will be trained to write applications and respond to office actions. Your responsibilities are essentially the same as that as a patent agent, with a few restrictions because you cannot formally represent a client before the USPTO. For example, a registered practitioner (patent agent or patent attorney) has to formally sign documents (that you have prepared) that are submitted to the USPTO; and a registered patent practitioner has to formally conduct an Examiner's Interview (that you will participate in). Some technical specialists will provide subject-matter expertise for patent litigation as well. The advantage to this approach is that there is no upfront expenditure in time and money preparing for, and passing, the patent bar (after all, you might not like life in a law firm).

Some firms will hire you as a technical specialist; and, if you work out, they will reimburse you (at least partially) for prep fees and exam fees related to the patent bar. Once you pass the patent bar, you become a registered patent agent.

(b) You can study for, and pass, the patent bar on your own dime and time. You formally become a registered patent agent. You then apply for a position as a patent agent. The advantage to this approach is that it demonstrates to law firms that you are serious about a career in patent law.

(2) With respect to actually landing a newbie position (whether as a technical specialist or patent agent), that depends on how closely your technical background maps with the needs of the firm's clients. Training newbies requires a substantial investment in time and money for the firm. If your specialty were in, e.g., device physics or solid-state physics, you'd probably have a good shot. I don't think there's much demand for astrophysics, so you'll need to package and present yourself properly (high-level math, software, ...).

(3) If you go the patent examiner route, note that you will not receive the bread-and-butter training that law firms are looking for. At a law firm, you will primarily write applications and respond to office actions (some other activities as well). As an Examiner, you will examine applications and write office actions. The work is mainly complementary. If you later decide to leave the USPTO and apply for a position at a law firm, some firms will look favorably upon a couple of years experience as an Examiner, since you have the inside scoop on how the USPTO works and understand the basics of patent prosecution. But you still will require substantial time and money to be trained to write applications and respond to office actions (as well as getting used to working with a billable clock ticking away, though Examiners have their own time constraints); so don't expect a stint at the USPTO to be a guaranteed ticket to a position in a law firm.

(4) To become a patent attorney, you need to go to law school, earn a JD, and pass the patent bar (before or after the JD). Given the time and $$$ involved, I would suggest working as a tech spec or patent agent first to see whether you like the work and are good at it. Some firms will provide at least partial reimbursement for law school if you work out. If you work at the USPTO, I believe there is (or at least was) some program for attending law school [you need to check what the latest policy is, since it changes].

 

[CrysPhys]

I am not sure if this thread is still alive. If it is, I would like to know what is the typical path to take to become a patent examiner or agent or attorney, when I have a PhD degree in astrophysics. Thanks.

Are you a fresh PhD, or do you have work experience?

 

[Stephanie Louris]

I have a BS in chemistry and a PhD in materials science and engineering. I've had a few career transitions: engineer to stay-at-home-mom to middle school science teacher. I never did enjoy being in the lab -- my favorite part of grad school was writing my thesis! I've found that classroom management really isn't for me, either, so several of my friends have suggested I look into being a patent agent. I've done some research and it does sound like it would be a great career for me.

So here are my questions:
-It's been 20 years since I've been a materials engineer. Would companies/law firms pass over me because of this?
-It seems like EE, software, and biotech are in the highest demand, and I am interested in biomedical applications. Would a certificate in biotech or medical devices from a place like UCSC Extension be worthwhile to improve my chances of being hired as a patent agent?

Thank you!

 

[mcmath]

I also have a BS in chemistry, and a PhD in biomedical engineering, just graduated last month. I've been applying to 30-40 IP firms from a few months back with no luck. There are a good number of firms looking for PhDs in materials/life sciences, but they want experienced patent agents. Major IP firms (Cooley, Wilson) have openings for scientific advisers but it seems very competitive.

I'm debating to bite the bullet and study for the patent bar, or instead try for the LSAT for law school. There are other options for you such as medical writing, and government jobs such as health scientists that are mostly scientific research/writing.

I'd appreciate any input on improving our chances in the IP field (such as certificates that Stephanie mentioned), or other PhD-level writing jobs that may be available.

 

[PAllen]

I only personally know one person who went from private technology career (software engineering, software development manager) to an IP firm. He, indeed took the time (money) to go to law school. It certainly paid off, he worked his way up to partner in an IP firm!

 

[CrysPhys]

I have a BS in chemistry and a PhD in materials science and engineering. I've had a few career transitions: engineer to stay-at-home-mom to middle school science teacher. I never did enjoy being in the lab -- my favorite part of grad school was writing my thesis! I've found that classroom management really isn't for me, either, so several of my friends have suggested I look into being a patent agent. I've done some research and it does sound like it would be a great career for me.

So here are my questions:
-It's been 20 years since I've been a materials engineer. Would companies/law firms pass over me because of this?
-It seems like EE, software, and biotech are in the highest demand, and I am interested in biomedical applications. Would a certificate in biotech or medical devices from a place like UCSC Extension be worthwhile to improve my chances of being hired as a patent agent?

Thank you!

(a) You are competing with recent PhDs or PhDs with recent work experience in materials science and engineering who are familiar with the latest technology or who have contacts that are current or potential clients. So what distinguishing value would you bring to a firm? And, then, of course, there is the question of your age. It takes about 3 yrs for a firm to train a newbie. How long do you plan to keep working?

(b) A certificate would be useless. You are competing with (1) grads with a recent degree (BS or higher) in the specific field [such as mcmath in Post #309] or (b) scientists and engineers with recent work experience in the specific field who want to transition to a career in IP.

 

[CrysPhys]

I only personally know one person who went from private technology career (software engineering, software development manager) to an IP firm. He, indeed took the time (money) to go to law school. It certainly paid off, he worked his way up to partner in an IP firm!

It's not that rare to join an IP firm without going to law school. If you have a recent PhD in the right field or recent extensive work experience in the right field, you can work as a technical specialist or patent agent.

 

[CrysPhys]

I also have a BS in chemistry, and a PhD in biomedical engineering, just graduated last month. I've been applying to 30-40 IP firms from a few months back with no luck. There are a good number of firms looking for PhDs in materials/life sciences, but they want experienced patent agents. Major IP firms (Cooley, Wilson) have openings for scientific advisers but it seems very competitive.

I'm debating to bite the bullet and study for the patent bar, or instead try for the LSAT for law school. There are other options for you such as medical writing, and government jobs such as health scientists that are mostly scientific research/writing.

I'd appreciate any input on improving our chances in the IP field (such as certificates that Stephanie mentioned), or other PhD-level writing jobs that may be available.

(1) I discussed entry options for IP firms in my Post #306.

(2) If you got your PhD from a major research university, it should have a technology transfer dept. Ask about positions there (even internships); you'll get to know people in the IP firms that do work for the university.

(3) You can also consider technical journalism if you have an interest in writing.

 

[paquito]

Would you say some type of engineering degree has a better shot of getting into law school than someone with a physics degree?(Bachelors)

 

[berkeman]

Would you say some type of engineering degree has a better shot of getting into law school than someone with a physics degree?(Bachelors)

I'd guess that the chances are the same for those technical backgrounds. Work on maximizing your LSAT scores...