Can I Test Out of College and Still Get a Degree in Science and Math?

[Line]

I know they have tests where you can take the test and if you pass you don't have to take the course.

I was wondering, if I educated myself enough on physics through books and videos as well as Math could I take tests to get credits for courses and get a degree froma college?

cience and Math are all I'm interested in I don't know if I'd have to take English Lit tests and Social Studies. Also would any companies or labs accept me if they saw I tested out of college?

 

[chroot]

1) The chances of anyone being able to test out of every class with nothing more than self-study are virtually nil. In fact, the chance is so small than no university is even going to bother going through all the effort to pull together 40+ final exams and proctor them all only to find out that, no, you didn't pass them all.

2) Universities are businesses. Even if they permitted you to take the placement exams, they'd charge you a pretty large amount of money for each. IIRC, Virginia Tech charged me $300 for each of the two classes I placed out of via final exam.

3) Universities typically only permit credit-by-exam for certain courses, not their entire curriculum. Often the only courses offered credit-by-exam are the entry-level general-education courses.

4) The degree carries along with it the distinction that you have been reviewed by a wide variety of professors, and that they have the professional opinion that you deserve all the recognition that the degree affords. They cannot make this determination about your general ability to meet challenges when their only interaction with you is proctoring a final exam. In other words, there's more to college than just passing exams: your general problem-solving ability, teamwork, time management, and other skills are important, too.

5) If it were possible (and it's not), the degree you'd get would presumably be identical to the degree given to any other graduate, so you'd not be disadvantaged in interviews with companies and labs.

Virtually everything you post here is about trying to circumvent the academic system, trying to get rich quickly, trying to become a CEO of a technology company with no experience or education, etc. What's the deal with you? What's so hard about going to school for a few years?

- Warren

 

[d_leet]

cience and Math are all I'm interested in I don't know if I'd have to take English Lit tests and Social Studies. Also would any companies or labs accept me if they saw I tested out of college?

As far as colleges in the US go, I don't believe that there is a single one without some, even extremely basic core curriculum that requires some type of hummanity course such as a writing or social science class.

 

[mathwonk]

I know of at least one case of a student who went straight from high school to graduate school, perhaps in amthematics or computer science.

he took college and even graduate level math courses while in high school, and was in fact the best student in my graduate algebra class whilea highs chool student. he then received a hgh school degree and acolege degree simukltaneously.

he then went straight to berkeley grd school althugh i myself argued against it because he missed possibly the mostfun time of most peoples liuves, i.e. college with all its social life sports, political awareness, volunteer work, girls, etc...

but his parebnts were pressuring him to save them te mney collkege would have cost. I do nt recommend it, nor is it likely for most of us normal people, but it is possible.

 

[Line]

O are there any volleges that will allow you to test out of their entire curriculum?

And why can't you just study. MOst of learning in college is studying. Half the people don't even understand the professors.

 

[jtbell]

All undergraduate physics degree programs that I know of, require at least some laboratory work. How do you propose to satisfy those requirements via self-study?

 

[mathwonk]

if you have ever benefited from answers to questions on this forum you know that profesors are helpful. all this stuff is available in books and yet thousands of people ask for help understanding it here.

 

[chroot]

And why can't you just study. MOst of learning in college is studying. Half the people don't even understand the professors.

My, that sounds like the musings of someone who hasn't attended college...

- Warren

 

[Pengwuino]

Watch videos?

 

[Manchot]

Every college that I know of has some form of residency requirement. That is, you have to take at least a certain number of hours at their institution to graduate.

 

[d_leet]

O are there any volleges that will allow you to test out of their entire curriculum?

And why can't you just study. MOst of learning in college is studying. Half the people don't even understand the professors.

Yeah, and I would bet about half the people don't understand the books that they study from, so then where does that leave them to go for help? To the professors. Professors aren't there to just lecture in class and assume that students understand perfectly every word that they say, there are reasons that they have office hours for students to come and ask questions about the course material. So sure you can just study, but outside of a college like environment if you have problems understanding the material from a textbook then you are very limited in places to turn for help.

 

[Manchot]

Yeah, and I would bet about half the people don't understand the books that they study from, so then where does that leave them to go for help?

To PF.

 

[Pengwuino]

Yeah, and I would bet about half the people don't understand the books that they study from, so then where does that leave them to go for help? To the professors. Professors aren't there to just lecture in class and assume that students understand perfectly every word that they say, there are reasons that they have office hours for students to come and ask questions about the course material. So sure you can just study, but outside of a college like environment if you have problems understanding the material from a textbook then you are very limited in places to turn for help.

To add to that, when it comes down to it you can't learn from either by themselves. Not many people can do a decent job learning simply from reading textbooks and not many people can do a decent job of learning simply from listening to lectures.

And I repeat... "Videos"?

 

[chroot]

I should add that even if you could learn by self-study alone, you'd certainly have to do all the exercises, too -- not just read the books. It would probably take you... oh, about four years or so.

- Warren

 

[d_leet]

To add to that, when it comes down to it you can't learn from either by themselves. Not many people can do a decent job learning simply from reading textbooks and not many people can do a decent job of learning simply from listening to lectures.

Exactly, I've tried to teach myself some math from textbooks, and trying to learn from a textbook by itself is not at all an easy endeavor, so there are times when you need someone to talk to about the material you're learning or trying to teach yourself, but if you're not actually taking a class at some sort of school and are only doing this as a means to bypass attending school then the professors probably be very willing to help you with your problems.

To the OP if you really want to do this, then good luck, but you will probably be missing out on a lot of fun oppurtunities and fun that can be had in college, as well as losing out on gaining networking skills through interaction with other students and teachers.

And I repeat... "Videos"?

I think he means educational videos, like some of the lecture videos that are available on MIT's opencourseware site.

 

[Manchot]

I should add that even if you could learn by self-study alone, you'd certainly have to do all the exercises, too -- not just read the books. It would probably take you... oh, about four years or so.

- Warren

Word. I've audited a couple math classes, and to really keep up with the class, I found myself doing a couple hours of work a day. In some ways, it would've easier to just register for the class and attend lecture, because I would've saved time that way. (Of course, there was the benefit that I could do it whenever I wanted to.)

 

[Line]

As for the people to talk to I've got that solved...Physics FOrums. That or I could join a physics society. Now will they just let you take one course like lab and study the rest elsewhere.

 

[d_leet]

As for the people to talk to I've got that solved...Physics FOrums. That or I could join a physics society. Now will they just let you take one course like lab and study the rest elsewhere.

A lot of schools won't let you take a lab class unless you're also signed up for the corresponding lecture as well.

 

[Pengwuino]

As for the people to talk to I've got that solved...Physics FOrums. That or I could join a physics society. Now will they just let you take one course like lab and study the rest elsewhere.

I highly doubt that's going to happen. If you think you're going to be able to ask every single question you can come up with when you get confused from reading a textbook... well it won't be fun You could get enough Q&A from one hour with a professor to be equivalent to a week of questions on the forum. Plus its a whole lot easier to be sitting with a professor going over things step by step so that you know what's going on.

 

[franznietzsche]

Now will they just let you take one course like lab and study the rest elsewhere.

What part of 'No.' have you not understood so far?

 

[jbusc]

There is the CLEP program, which is run by the college board (the SAT and AP exam people) which allows people in college to get standardized credit by exam.

However, you would have to find a school which allows you to count those credits in the first place (mine doesn't) and you would still have to take college classes since the only CLEP exams offered are for _introductory_ classes.

 

[daveb]

IIRC, testing out of a class just means you don't have to take it as a prerequisite for another course. It doesn't actually give you the 3, 4, or 5 units of credit.

 

[leon1127]

If you are strongly motivated and have the time to do so, it is possible. I agree that you will miss a lot of fun. I spend 18 hours per day on maths instead of 18 hours a week I suppose. That results me a lot shorter degree plan for my BS. I tried to test out my Maths during high school. 150 dollars per test and requires me to score 90+ in order to get half a credit. 90+ with no curve is not easy even it was just algebra 2. Not that I don't know my stuff, it was that I don't know what test really covers. During a normal class year, teacher would skip some of the material and it would not show up on the test. Though, if you try to test it out, you might be required to know all material from the book(s). Still obtain a 90+? less likely.

Regards
Leon

 

[JSBeckton]

As for the people to talk to I've got that solved...Physics FOrums. That or I could join a physics society. Now will they just let you take one course like lab and study the rest elsewhere.

You might find the professor, and other students "less than helpful" when you get into the lab and have no idea what to do. Who wants to be lab partners with the guy who never shows up?

You don't sound like someone who has a good enough work ethic to make it on your own, it has nothing to do with being smart or not. You would then probabally spend all of your time trying to find out if you can get a degree without taking the tests either!

Thread comming soon to PF-

"Can I get a degree without taking classes or tests?"

 

[Rach3]

Thread comming soon to PF-

"Can I get a degree without taking classes or tests?"

Sure! And you can http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/10/eveningnews/main616664.shtml.

 

[oksanav]

Everyone's already said this stuff but here's a summary as to why you CAN'T:
1)CLEP only means you don't have to take a class, you will receive NO credit for it. You need around 130 hours to graduate. If you take all the CLEPs most schools offer, that would be about 45 hours you wouldn't get credit for.
2) Like someone else said, they don't offer tests for anything outside of core classes. I've never even heard of a intro to physics placement test, good luck finding one for E&M.
3) You'd need at least 30 hours or so at a college to meet the residency requirement.
So those are the bureaucratic reasons why not. Perhaps there are exceptions for geniuses, but if you were one then I imagine you wouldn't be on here asking this. The only way I see it happening is if you find some unaccredited university online that will give you a piece of paper for $50,000.
Here are the reasons why you wouldn't get into grad school or get a job if you somehow did this:
1) Companies know that people skills are just as important as knowledge. Otherwise they'd just use computers for everything. My teachers force us to work together on problems a lot because of this. Being book smart is NOT enough.
2) You'd need research experience.Why would you want to miss out on that anyways? I'd be a little intimidated by jumping into professional research without having worked first with teachers I'm comfortable with.
3) Who would write your letters of recommendation?
4) Because life isn't a written test.
I learned CAL II from the book because my teacher was horrible, self teaching is possible. But I also HATE cal II now, because the book wasn't very good either. CAL I I learned strictly from the teacher, and I love it. You never want to be dependent on one source.
Face it, unless you're rich, you have to suck it up and do the work to get anywhere.

 

[JSBeckton]

I learned CAL II from the book because my teacher was horrible, self teaching is possible. But I also HATE cal II now, because the book wasn't very good either.

I think most people that "hate" a calc class, hate calc II

 

[Pengwuino]

I think most people that "hate" a calc class, hate calc II

I know i did

What I want to know is.. why does the original poster want to get a degree without having to go to a university?

 

[chroot]

What I want to know is.. why does the original poster want to get a degree without having to go to a university?

Because he wants to get a high-paying, powerful position as the CEO of a large technology company or research laboratory, but doesn't want to actually have to do anything to get it. Read his previous posts.

- Warren

 

[d_leet]

I think most people that "hate" a calc class, hate calc II

I think I'm the exception to this, I loved my Calc II class, and if I had to pick one that was my least favorite it would be Calc III because for me the material presented there was a bit less intuitive and I had a harder time grasping the concepts.

 

[Pengwuino]

Because he wants to get a high-paying, powerful position as the CEO of a large technology company or research laboratory, but doesn't want to actually have to do anything to get it. Read his previous posts.

- Warren

Which posts? Before he posted this thread?

 

[Pengwuino]

Because he wants to get a high-paying, powerful position as the CEO of a large technology company or research laboratory, but doesn't want to actually have to do anything to get it. Read his previous posts.

- Warren

Yah... most CEO's are pretty laid back in the years they worked for their companies before becoming CEO. Shareholders love slackers!

 

[Simfish]

I highly doubt that's going to happen. If you think you're going to be able to ask every single question you can come up with when you get confused from reading a textbook... well it won't be fun You could get enough Q&A from one hour with a professor to be equivalent to a week of questions on the forum. Plus its a whole lot easier to be sitting with a professor going over things step by step so that you know what's going on.

And how much time is a professor going to devote to you? At least at the UWashington, profs only have like several hours of office hours. They really can only answer a few questions of yours, before they have to do other things. And really, you can get far more out of those via PF.

However, i have a learning disability as a part of Asperger's Syndrome, and that makes it much more difficult for me to learn from professors by visiting office hours [because it often takes a long time for me to get a concept, in which the professor will then get really frustrated, even though I ultimately am intelligent enough to understand the material].

Can anyone recommend any distance learning programs that go beyond the basics? There's Stanford EPGY, but that only covers one semester courses, not 3-quarter courses.

The problem with college learning is that it doesn't accommodate a wide variety of learning styles. And thus, I'd like to self-study and do exercises from a textbook at my own pace, rather than pay money to have a teacher talk AT me. Yes, I don't get the same college experiences anyways, but regardless, I wouldn't due to my social deficiencies.

Many scientists and mathematicians self-taught themselves college level material before they even encountered it in college. But it's easier to self-teach something if you're intelligent.

 

[Pengwuino]

And how much time is a professor going to devote to you? At least at the UWashington, profs only have like several hours of office hours. They really can only answer a few questions of yours, before they have to do other things. And really, you can get far more out of those via PF.

Thats where you separate learning schools from research schools. I don't know what that university is but around here, professors are extremely open to spending time with you to help you out. They can help you go through every step instead of here where you can only pretty much ask one small part of a question or else you'll be looked upon like you want people to explain an entire lectures worth of material to you. Plus when you get into upper-division stuff, PF becomes fairly worthless if you have any respect for the people who help out here. PF has a lot of people that can help out with lower-division stuff and its fairly easy for them because they're normally short and quick. Some of the upper-division things require a LONG time to explain and as extraordinary as some of the members are, i don't think many of them will spend the time necessary to replace the time a professor would spend with you to help you out.

Of course, this comes from someone who is in a rather small department with professors that are amazingly more dedicated to their students then what you'd expect at say, a UC campus's political science department. It's a consequence of the smaller department and my university being a teaching university as opposed to research.

 

[Simfish]

University of Washington has more physics majors than any other university - and many of these majors tend to be erm... engineering school rejects - and so many of the physics professors aren't very willing to help. =/

One very intelligent classmate of mine [and she was among the top of the class] even got frustrated because the professor just wasn't very patient with her questions - and discouraged her from going further into physics...