COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

[bhobba]

Now a Nature report states that Remdesivir and the generic chloroquine are effective against nCoV.

I was, and still am, in no doubt modern science and commitment of all involved will basically hit this thing for a 6 - we have learned so much even in just the last few years eg UQ's new method of creating a vaccine ultra fast. Like what happened with Ebola we also have extremely committed people willing to even put their own life on the line - we have the tools and the courage.

Thanks
Bill

 

[kadiot]

Fact-check please:

"Good news! The registration for clinical trials on the antiviral drug Remdesivir has been approved, and the first batch of pneumonia patients infected by the novel Coronavirus are expected to start taking the drug Thursday"http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-02/06/c_138758836.htm

 

[chemisttree]

Fact-check please:

"Good news! The registration for clinical trials on the antiviral drug Remdesivir has been approved, and the first batch of pneumonia patients infected by the novel Coronavirus are expected to start taking the drug Thursday"

Still waiting to see if they will do the same for chloroquine.

 

[DEvens]

There is no possible way to compare those two numbers to nCoV. Not a good idea to compare time series data to final counts. China started building two special hospitals when the official case count was in the low thousands! If the infection rates were accurate, how come a city like Wuhan with available hospital bedspace of greater than 40,000 is swamped by the then number of around 2,000?

View the time series data here:
https://ncov.r6.no/

Looks to me like nCoV is much worse than SARS.

There is substantial uncertainty right now. It is by no means clear that the reporting is accurate for any of the numbers.

When people die at home, it is not clear that they are tested. So the deaths might be significantly under reported. At the same time, it seems that some people when infected have quite mild symptoms. So the infected rate could be significantly under reported. So the mortality rate could be quite drastically high or low.

Regarding the website linked here. At the bottom is a graph showing infections and deaths broken between all of China, and China excluding Hubei (the province where Wuhan is). The deaths outside Hubei were reported as 75 on Day 24, and 11 on Day 25. What's that? Did 64 people mistakenly get declared dead? Or their location on death mistaken? What's up with that?

 

[chemisttree]

File under, “No Good Deed.” China has filed a patent against Gilead’s patented Remdesivir anti-viral medication for use in treating nCoV. The Wuhan Institute claims to have made the application out of “national interest” and won’t exercise their patent rights if foreign pharmaceutical firms work with China to curb the contagion. In other words, “let us make it in China license-free or we’re just going to steal it from you!”

What an outrage!
https://time.com/5778216/china-patent-coronavirus-drug/

 

[kadiot]

File under, “No Good Deed.” China has filed a patent against Gilead’s patented Remdesivir anti-viral medication for use in treating nCoV. The Wuhan Institute claims to have made the application out of “national interest” and won’t exercise their patent rights if foreign pharmaceutical firms work with China to curb the contagion. In other words, “let us make it in China license-free or we’re just going to steal it from you!”

What an outrage!
https://time.com/5778216/china-patent-coronavirus-drug/

They are just into intellectual property. What is wrong with documenting what you know? It does not take your time from the curing? If America did it, we see nothing wrong with it.

 

[member 656954]

File under, “No Good Deed.” China has filed a patent against Gilead’s patented Remdesivir anti-viral medication for use in treating nCoV. The Wuhan Institute claims to have made the application out of “national interest” and won’t exercise their patent rights if foreign pharmaceutical firms work with China to curb the contagion. In other words, “let us make it in China license-free or we’re just going to steal it from you!”

What an outrage!
https://time.com/5778216/china-patent-coronavirus-drug/

That article does not best describe this situation. WTO rules gives China the right to declare an emergency and compel a company to license a patent to protect the public. China would then be required to pay a fair market value license fee, so they are not 'stealing' it.

The Chinese Government is quarantining 60-odd million people in Hubei province to try and slow the spread of nCoV for everyone's benefit so your 'no good deed' sentiment seems to me uncharitable.

 

[chemisttree]

That article does not best describe this situation. WTO rules gives China the right to declare an emergency and compel a company to license a patent to protect the public. China would then be required to pay a fair market value license fee, so they are not 'stealing' it.

The Chinese Government is quarantining 60-odd million people in Hubei province to try and slow the spread of nCoV for everyone's benefit so your 'no good deed' sentiment seems to me uncharitable.

If they weren’t stealing it then they could just operate under WTO rules and declare the emergency as you have mentioned. They have not chosen that path and are instead patenting it in China. Patenting on top of another patent, one which specifically identifies the Coronavirus family for applicability, is stealing the patent. Providing your valuable intellectual property that has cost your company many many millions of dollars at no cost (very charitable) only to have the patent stolen for “national interest” certainly qualifies as accurate and the action by the Chinese authorities is most certainly not charitable. It IS an outrage.

 

[chemisttree]

They are just into intellectual property. What is wrong with documenting what you know? It does not take your time from the curing? If America did it, we see nothing wrong with it.

This is way beyond “documenting what you know.” The first patient in the US was treated with Remdesivir, successfully, after all. If someone in America tried to patent a claim in some else’s foreign patent only because they proved it to be true in a case they identified, it would be denied as would be expected. When has “America” done this? You know of a case?

 

[Ygggdrasil]

File under, “No Good Deed.” China has filed a patent against Gilead’s patented Remdesivir anti-viral medication for use in treating nCoV. The Wuhan Institute claims to have made the application out of “national interest” and won’t exercise their patent rights if foreign pharmaceutical firms work with China to curb the contagion. In other words, “let us make it in China license-free or we’re just going to steal it from you!”

What an outrage!
https://time.com/5778216/china-patent-coronavirus-drug/

It's worth being a bit more precise with the claims here. "China" did not apply for the patent, the Wuhan Institute of Virology did. Your claim is akin to saying that actions by, say the University of Wisconsin, represents the position of the US govnerment.

Furthermore, anyone can file a patent and make any claims they want. The real test is whether the Chinese government grants the patent. Other sources are skeptical whether the Chinese government will grant the patent to the Wuhan Institute of Virology:

As there is significant prior art (e.g., Gilead’s own patent applications including CN108348526A entitled “Methods for treating arenaviridae and coronaviridae virus infections”) it is unclear if the China National Intellectual Property Administration will grant a patent.

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/wuhan-institute-virology-applies-patent-gilead-s-remdesivir

 

[chemisttree]

It's worth being a bit more precise with the claims here. "China" did not apply for the patent, the Wuhan Institute of Virology did. Your claim is akin to saying that actions by, say the University of Wisconsin, represents the position of the US govnerment.

Except that in this case it does. Wuhan Institute of Virolology is not some independent local think tank, its actually called Wuhan Institute of Virolology, Chinese Academy of Sciences. It is most certainly the Chinese government’s Academy and referring to it as “China” is as accurate as it gets.

https://www.loc.gov/item/lcwaN0003010/

 

[member 656954]

It IS an outrage

I am not going to deny your right to feelings of outrage, @chemisttree. I just don't share it in this case.

If you're a history buff, you might find the idea of China (or its proxy) snaffling US IP very ironic. Peter Andreas chronicles the US Government's wholesale IP theft in his book “Smuggler Nation: How Illicit Trade Made America”, though back then - the late 18th and early 19th centuries - the main victim was Britain.

Clearly, times change, but I have no doubt that if a foreign company had IP that would help America in a crisis such as this, it would be appropriated without a second thought, esp, if that might save thousands. This is clearly a hypothetical question, but I am interested in whether you would feel outrage in such circumstances.

 

[OmCheeto]

...The first patient in the US was treated with Remdesivir, successfully...

Weird, if it was successful, that Gilead's stock price budged, almost imperceptibly.

Am I missing something here?

ps. I find it funny that "GILD", Gilead's stock ticker tag, means "gold". (etymologically, anyways)
Imagine having the patent on the only defense against something potentially deadly affecting billions of people.
Cha-Ching!

 

[chemisttree]

Weird, if it was successful, that Gilead's stock price budged, almost imperceptibly.

View attachment 256781

Am I missing something here?

VERY unusual that Gilead is almost unique in its non-performance. The Chinese Central Bank has been injecting massive amounts of cash into their market and markets around the world have been rocked by... record highs? I also wonder, “why not Gilead too?”

 

[chemisttree]

...but I have no doubt that if a foreign company had IP that would help America in a crisis such as this, it would be appropriated without a second thought, esp, if that might save thousands. This is clearly a hypothetical question, but I am interested in whether you would feel outrage in such circumstances.

Of course I would. Do you have any modern examples of a US governmental academy, Department, representative doing something like this for reasons of “National Interest?” For any reason? I mean without going all the way back to the late 1700’s.

If you’re not a history buff, it would be worthwhile to remember the times back them. Britain had just lost a bitterly-fought war and was capitalizing on its immense seapower, seizing US flagged ships and cargo on the high seas bound for France and enslaving (they called it “impressment”) the crew. There was no WTO, no global economy, no cooperation between major powers for IP rights and on and on... And it (impressment) caused a war, of course. I’m not surprised that in that environment that IP theft against Britain was rampant. But if it were to happen today I would be outraged.

 

[mfb]

Of course I would. Do you have any modern examples of a US governmental academy, Department, representative doing something like this for reasons of “National Interest?” For any reason? I mean without going all the way back to the late 1700’s.

Rocket technology after WW II, rocket technology during the cold war?
The US government continues to spy on everyone and everything, and it is quite obvious that this information is used. More recent specific examples are rarely known publicly for obvious reasons.

 

[chemisttree]

A Royal Caribbean cruise ship was detained in a NJ port while the CDC screened 27 passengers who recently traveled from China. A family of 4 was hospitalized; one family member tested positive for the (regular) flu.

The ship has been cleared but still Royal Caribbean and Nowegian Cruises have banned anyone with a Chinese, Hong Kong, or Macao passport. Yikes! This is getting serious!

 

[chemisttree]

Rocket technology after WW II, rocket technology during the cold war?

I’m all ears. What rocket technology? Paperclip?
Paperclip was spoils of a war declared on the US by Germany.

 

[mfb]

Oh great, you found a new label for it. I'm sure you'll also find a new label for Russian rocket technology used by the US. Okay... pointless to continue this discussion.

 

[member 656954]

Of course I would.

I hoped for such, but assumptions must be tested.

In terms of the OP, IP theft is lurching us off-topic, but it happens daily, everywhere. Just a few domestic examples include Anthony Levandowski being charged with 33 counts of theft and attempted theft of trade secrets from Google, Zillow Group filing an IP infringement suit against competitor Urban Compass, and Apple purportedly having stolen IP related to their Watch tech.

In terms of your specific question, I'd say the NSA qualifies as a US government agency that has knowingly violated intellectual property rights over an extended period, and numerous small businesses accused the Government of stealing their IP seven or so years ago. The CLOUD Act has been cited by EU members as a mechanism for the US Government to engage in espionage, though I don't feel it has been set up for that purpose and it probably is a blunt instrument for such.

Sadly, theft seems to form part of the human condition, but if mitigating circumstances ever apply, surely the situation that triggered this whole discussion is an example.

 

[Rive]

For mobile phones, something like that exists. But there are too many different 'cable' instruments/systems so I doubt that any uniform solution would exist/would be useful.

But this seems to be a bit off-topic, unless you further elaborate its relation to the discussed situation?

 

[jim mcnamara]

Let us stay with Wuhan Coronavirus.

Further digressions will have an extremely short half-life. We have had too many. The topic is important. The NSA and citizen band radio are not germane to the topic. Therefore: Start separate threads please.

Thanks

 

[BWV]

Interview with a doctor on the front lines

‘In the segregated ward, we wear level-3 protective gear. One shift is 12 hours for a doctor and eight hours for a nurse. Since protective gear is in a shortage, there is only one set for a medical staff member a day. We refrain from eating or drinking during our shift because the gear is no longer protective once we go to the washroom.’

‘The most regretful thing to me was a pregnant woman from Huanggang. She was in very serious condition. Nearly 200,000 yuan (S$39,505) was spent after more than a week in the ICU. She was from the countryside, and the money for hospitalisation was borrowed from her relatives and friends. Her condition was improving after the use of Ecmo, and she was likely to survive. But her husband decided to give up. He cried for his decision. I wept too because I felt there was hope for her to be saved. The woman died after we gave up. And exactly the next day, the government announced a new policy that offers free treatment for all coronavirus-infected patients. I feel so sorry for that pregnant woman.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/e...ook-life-and-death-in-a-wuhan-coronavirus-icu

 

[chemisttree]

Anyone know what “Ecmo” is?

Nevermind.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extracorporeal_membrane_oxygenation

 

[kadiot]

Three new cases confirmed in Singapore. All have not recently traveled to China. I wonder who's that guy going around infecting other people. How come he is not in the hospital? What does an nCov patient feel like? Looks like he does't feel sick. Weird!

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/wuhan-coronavirus-moh-new-cases-feb-7-12405040

 

[kadiot]

"It is probable that the virus originated in bats, with pangolins being the vector into humans. In past epidemics, vectors have been pigs, chickens, ducks and camels."

Taken from:

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...n3zlXCxcw_kTkyVD6d9okpEaOO7ZXGKOwWrvCD4YtcRaI

 

[chemisttree]

"It is probable that the virus originated in bats, with pangolins being the vector into humans. In past epidemics, vectors have been pigs, chickens, ducks and camels."

Taken from:

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...n3zlXCxcw_kTkyVD6d9okpEaOO7ZXGKOwWrvCD4YtcRaI

If true then how did a pangolin catch it from a bat? Are pangolins eating dead bats or do they feed on bat feces?
Or is this someone trying to stop the chinese from killing this endangered species by scaring them with this plague? What’s next?

Rhino horn?

 

[chemisttree]

What? Me worry?

So I go to my neighborhood big box supermarket/clothing/pharmacy/sporting goods/outdoor/automotive/electronics/shoe/bank/nail salon/McDonalds store... I’m sure you know the type, to get some stuff. Just to check on how people in San Antonio might be reacting to the Wuhan flu, I check out the pharmacy to try and find hand sanitizer.

S’gone! Adios! Sold out!

It begins. A quarantine plane landed in SA on Friday, so that might be the reason.

Oh well! Here’s how to make it:

you will need:
43 mL 70% isopropyl (still available!)
0.5 g Carbopol 940
0.38 mL Triethanolamine
~7 mL DI water

Add 43 mL of isopropanol to a small cup and slowly add the powdered Carbapol 940 with stirring. Continue stirring to completely suspend the polymer. It may take 10-15 minutes. Continue stirring and add the triethanolamine dropwise with a small syringe (no needle required). Stir until triethanolamine is uniformly mixed. Add water and stir until uniformly mixed.

There you have it. 50 mL of hand sanitizer! A lot of work for only 2 ounces so you should probably scale up a bit. I’d better not see you selling this stuff on ebay!

Oh, I totally plagiarized this recipe. Hat tip to Patrick Pham.


If you want to use ethanol instead of isopropyl alcohol you will need to get some Everclear (95% ethanol) or some USP grade. Don’t use denatured ethanol since it might contain something not good for hands like jet fuel or something (darn revenuers!). If you use Everclear, use 32 mL ethanol and 18 mL of water. I don’t think Vodka is strong enough.

 

[chirhone]

Whats new in this confirmation. Arent all Coronavirus airborned like the common colds?

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-is-airborne-chinese-official-confirms/news-story/201218c04deb601b1b144f4cbbc4d807#.m4qig
"
It comes as a Chinese official confirmed a worrying new fact about the deadly coronavirus; infections are taking place through aerosol transmission.

It was previously understood that two main ways the virus transmitted from person to person were:

• Direct transmission: breathing in air close to an infected patient who sneezes or coughs, and

• Contact transmission: when a person touches an object tainted with the virus before infecting themselves by touching their mouth, nose or eyes.

However, over the weekend, an official in Shanghai confirmed the virus also traveled through aerosol transmission, which means it can float a long distance through the air and cause infection later when it is breathed in.

“Aerosol transmission refers to the mixing of the virus with droplets in the air to form aerosols, which causes infection after inhalation, according to medical experts,” Shanghai Civil Affairs Bureau deputy head Zeng Qun said at press briefing on Saturday, the China Daily reports."

 

[kadiot]

Whats new in this confirmation. Arent all Coronavirus airborned like the common colds?

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-is-airborne-chinese-official-confirms/news-story/201218c04deb601b1b144f4cbbc4d807#.m4qig
"
It comes as a Chinese official confirmed a worrying new fact about the deadly coronavirus; infections are taking place through aerosol transmission.

It was previously understood that two main ways the virus transmitted from person to person were:

• Direct transmission: breathing in air close to an infected patient who sneezes or coughs, and

• Contact transmission: when a person touches an object tainted with the virus before infecting themselves by touching their mouth, nose or eyes.

However, over the weekend, an official in Shanghai confirmed the virus also traveled through aerosol transmission, which means it can float a long distance through the air and cause infection later when it is breathed in.

“Aerosol transmission refers to the mixing of the virus with droplets in the air to form aerosols, which causes infection after inhalation, according to medical experts,” Shanghai Civil Affairs Bureau deputy head Zeng Qun said at press briefing on Saturday, the China Daily reports."

Droplet - respiratory secretions can travel 3-6 feet away due to generation of aerosols when one sneezes or coughs. Since the droplets are relatively large, they don't stay in the air very long.

Airborne (technical term) - transmission via tiny aerosolized respiratory secretions that can stay in the air like smoke for sustained periods of time. There are very few diseases that need airborne precautions: tuberculosis, measles and chicken pox are the classic ones.

Hence, aerosol is NOT always equal to airborne (in the strict sense) because if the particles are large, they can just be droplet transmission. If you use "airborne" as an adjective and not as a strict technical term, then it becomes even more confusing.

 

[chemisttree]

This would explain the mist generators and smoke cannons spewing “something” into the empty streets of Wuhan. It’s maddening not having clear and accurate information coming out of China. We get these official proclamations countered by the various social media vlogs. Now we hear from the regime that nCoV can float over long distances and infect “at later times,” whatever that means. All this and people are falsely reporting SO2 plumes from the burning bodies near Wuhan, confusing forecasts with actual measurements!
I can hardly wait until we get some independent observers in there.

 

[mfb]

As Deaths Mount, China Tries to Speed Up Coronavirus Testing

In Hubei, it takes hours for samples to be sent to the laboratories and days for the results to be issued. The local health department says the labs can run 6,000 tests a day, but even with staff working around the clock, there aren’t enough laboratories to keep up with the workload. The province is seeking outside help.

If they can only run 6000 tests per day in all of Hubei (?) and if that test is needed to confirm a case (?) it is no surprise that we don't see an exponential increase any more.
4000 new confirmed cases per day from 6000 tests?

 

[kadiot]

4000 new confirmed cases per day from 6000 tests?

Hi. Where did you get this 4,000 from?

 

[kadiot]

This would explain the mist generators and smoke cannons spewing “something” into the empty streets of Wuhan. It’s maddening not having clear and accurate information coming out of China. We get these official proclamations countered by the various social media vlogs. Now we hear from the regime that nCoV can float over long distances and infect “at later times,” whatever that means. All this and people are falsely reporting SO2 plumes from the burning bodies near Wuhan, confusing forecasts with actual measurements!
I can hardly wait until we get some independent observers in there.

Sooner or later lies will be uncovered to the world.
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3874013?fbclid=IwAR1_0khGpdoVLkbq5cvlbTsvs7juyLNSe5m_-_XdBrlY5aZvcX4BnD-vVwg

 

[mfb]

Hi. Where did you get this 4,000 from?

From China's official numbers (as a list here). Since February 1 the daily increase has always been ~3000-4000. This is not split by region but Hubei has the large majority of cases.