Is There a Bright Side to the Bush Administration?

[devil-fire]

i don't live in the usa or read a lot of american news so I am kind of in the dark here... i hear a lot of negative things about bush and the bush administration but what about the good parts?

 

[Someone502]

making the rest of the world hate the US

making the US a big bully

not sure on anymore

 

[faust9]

Ahhh, a thread like a Turkish prison---where one must prove their (or in this case Bush's) innocence or attributes. This will degenerate quickly enough.

Here, I'll push the ball a little more.

Bush has maintained good relations with Tony Blair.
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/05/11/britain.war.memo/

 

[wasteofo2]

During the 1990's, America experienced some of the most rapid growth it has ever experienced. George Bush took over right as this was ending. Under Bush, we could have easily had extreme inflation followed by a rather large economic depression, but we haven't. Though the penalty for this is that for a long time, there were actually jobs being lost in America, and the job creation rate under his Presidency is very dismal.

I don't know exactly how much of this is related to Bush himself, or how much of this is due to people he appointed. I tend to think that another good thing about George Bush is that he's not as involved in the government as he could be, often leaving important matters to more experienced people.

 

[Danger]

another good thing about George Bush is that he's not as involved in the government as he could be, often leaving important matters to more experienced people.

It's not much of an endorsement when a leader's lack of involvement in government is his positive quality.

 

[Phobos]

hmm...well, religiously and politically conservative Americans are happier than they have been in the past.

He's working hard to stop global terrorism. (that is good, although his methods are questionable)

I know there are some Bush supporters around here...perhaps they can offer more.

 

[russ_watters]

I know there are some Bush supporters around here...perhaps they can offer more.

Trouble is, many things that I consider good, others may question (reasonably) or consider bad and many things will take decades for the historians to work out. Its not like you can just list actions in colums labeled "good" and "bad".

-The Social Security plan, for example, is a big plus for me, but some people think its a bad idea.
-I think his decisiveness and consistency is good, while others think he's unable to adapt.
-I think his tax reductions helped the economy, but there is considerable debate about that.
-I think his "gunboat diplomacy" had a lot to do with the softening political climate of the Middle East (Libya, Syria/Lebanon, the Israeli/Pal situation, Pakistan, Yemen, etc.), but others disagree.
-I consider his marginalization of the UN (really, a continuation of Clinton's policy of unilateral action - as Clinton did with Yugoslavia) a good thing because the UN is corrupt, ineffective, inefficient, and dominated by countries that shouldn't be allowed power (the concept of equality between nations is flawed).
-I think hard times require a hard line - I think the world needs to start accepting that problems can't always be solved by diplomacy alone and it doesn't bother me one bit that the world community is having trouble with that reality.

 

[devil-fire]

stuff like what russ put down is kind of what I am looking for here. bush was reelected so people like him, but it seems those people don't have as much to say about bush as the people who voted against him.

maybe bush's stance on gay marrige is a big winner with some people?

 

[wasteofo2]

maybe bush's stance on gay marrige is a big winner with some people?

Definately, Americans are largely against gay marriage. Three states allow for civil unions or gay marriage, but about 20 or so have specific laws prohibiting it, and these include states that George Bush lost in the election by a wide margin.

 

[Jonny_trigonometry]

"I think hard times require a hard line - I think the world needs to start accepting that problems can't always be solved by diplomacy alone and it doesn't bother me one bit that the world community is having trouble with that reality." - Russ Waters

Why are we all the sudden in hard times? It seems ever since Clinton left we've been in hard times. Bush makes a big deal out of nothing (false evidence) and freaks out about it because he falls into his own subterfuges (leading to inacurate conclusions). That can be a good thing if he was a character on saturday night live, but he's president for God's sake!

 

[Pengwuino]

Why are we all the sudden in hard times? It seems ever since Clinton left we've been in hard times. Bush makes a big deal out of nothing (false evidence) and freaks out about it because he falls into his own subterfuges (leading to inacurate conclusions). That can be a good thing if he was a character on saturday night live, but he's president for God's sake!

.com industries, telecomms, biotechnology, and a few other high-tech industries that had billions upon billions of dollars in it all "burst". There is an incredible amount of evidence and most economists agree that he kept the economy out of a depression.

 

[Pengwuino]

Definately, Americans are largely against gay marriage. Three states allow for civil unions or gay marriage, but about 20 or so have specific laws prohibiting it, and these include states that George Bush lost in the election by a wide margin.

I fully support full-right civil unions... but there is something that really pisses me off about it. I live in California and 3 .. 3.. THREE times the people have voted to keep marriage between a man and a woman and every single time, the decision is thrown out or overturned. These were actual propositions given to us on various general election and congrsesional election ballots and they were always thrown out. Now come on, why let us vote if your going to throw it all out the next week.

 

[Pengwuino]

i don't live in the usa or read a lot of american news so I am kind of in the dark here... i hear a lot of negative things about bush and the bush administration but what about the good parts?

And that's what really sucks. Most people like you (i mean uninformed) usually automatically listen to what the international community says and automatically thinks Bush is some sort of new Hitler and usually come up with absolutely false facts and distortions. Thankfully, you actually ask about the other side! I am very happy to see at least some people don't care to hop on the bush=hitler bandwagon and actaully care to look at the facts from the people who actually have him as a leader.

 

[SOS2008]

And that's what really sucks. Most people like you (i mean uninformed) usually automatically listen to what the international community says and automatically thinks Bush is some sort of new Hitler and usually come up with absolutely false facts and distortions. Thankfully, you actually ask about the other side! I am very happy to see at least some people don't care to hop on the bush=hitler bandwagon and actaully care to look at the facts from the people who actually have him as a leader.

What's with the "uninformed" accusations? People in other countries are far more informed in comparison to Americans--They are much more interested in world affairs, always having political discussions, etc. Just because media elsewhere isn't as pro-American as you may like, journalism practices tend to be better (e.g., BBC) than most of what we see here in the states (and why you often see our stations broadcasting BBC documentaries or what have you). As for Bush being a fascist, did you miss that thread too? I agree it's good to want to know both sides of the story though.

 

[russ_watters]

Definately, Americans are largely against gay marriage.

I'm not so sure that that was a big issue. Though I was an ambivalent Bush supporter and I am generally not in favor of gay marriage, its not an issue that I consider important at all. We have much more important things to worry about.

Why are we all the sudden in hard times? It seems ever since Clinton left we've been in hard times.

Quite frankly, the "hard times" were here when Clinton was in office and he was lucky that they didn't affect his approval rating (which is really what he cared about most). Had he adequately dealth with the first WTC attack, there may not have been a second. Had he dealt with Saddam (his words indicate to me that he wanted to but didn't have the guts), Bush wouldn't have had to. Regardless, 9/11 opened everyone's eyes a little to the "hard times" and Bush chose to capitalize on his popularity help in dealing with the second.

And the "hard times" Bush inherited includes the economy - it began its tailspin six months before Clinton left office.

Pengwuino - squeaky wheel theory: the people who are pissed are the ones who are inevitably going to make all the noise. It doesn't bother me, but yeah - people need to remember that when forming second-hand opinions.

 

[SOS2008]

As noted by waste, many states already have statutes prohibiting gay marriage. My state is one of these states, and using my state as an example, there are members of the state legislature who want to place a proposition on the ballot in 2006 prohibiting gay marriage. Why have this prop if we already have a statute that prohibits this? Because it will ensure a good turn-out of the Christian-right (Republicans) to the polls, as was the case in the 2004 election where such props were on the ballot. Who are the members of the state legislature that want the prop? Republicans.

I agree with Russ about the economy. We were headed for a recession before Bush took office. We will have to wait to see the full effect of Bush's tax cuts, but so far things still don't look good. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have contributed significantly to the deficit, as well as depletion of the Social Security "trust fund."

I do criticize Bush's support of illegal immigration, and also trade agreements such as CAFTA. I believe we were heading into the recession in large part due to illegals, poor trade agreements, and most of all off-shoring of high tech jobs and intellectual property that went with these jobs. Interestingly, a good portion of the Christian-right opposes Bush's stance on these issues. Bush is responsible for supporting "more of the same" and for record deficit spending.

 

[Pengwuino]

What's with the "uninformed" accusations? People in other countries are far more informed in comparison to Americans--They are much more interested in world affairs, always having political discussions, etc. Just because media elsewhere isn't as pro-American as you may like, journalism practices tend to be better (e.g., BBC) than most of what we see here in the states (and why you often see our stations broadcasting BBC documentaries or what have you). As for Bush being a fascist, did you miss that thread too? I agree it's good to want to know both sides of the story though.

Actually a study i read about showed that people in America are largely more interested in politics then those in Europe. And when a guy tells me how Americans have a horirble tax system and tells us we have a 1.02% sales tax and told me that i was horribly mistaken thinking our sales taxes are more in teh 6-8% range, i started to wonder exactly how intelligent they all are. When asked, most of the europeans i know had no idea about that oil for food scandal in the UN and a lot of them don't even know we have a Presidential system and that haha, to top it all off, Bush "rigged" the 2004 election (even though there's many lawsuits with evidence of DNC voter fraud). And of course the BBC has shown that its rather biased on the issues by promoting a few rather un-founded articles... but of course they do it on a smaller basis then most american news organizations do unfortunately...

 

[Pengwuino]

I do criticize Bush's support of illegal immigration, and also trade agreements such as CAFTA. I believe we were heading into the recession in large part due to illegals, poor trade agreements, and most of all off-shoring of high tech jobs and intellectual property that went with these jobs. Interestingly, a good portion of the Christian-right opposes Bush's stance on these issues. Bush is responsible for supporting "more of the same" and for record deficit spending.

Im clueless on how he can support those things brought up. I assume you meant NAFTA? I assume the absolute only reason he practically supports illegal immigration is because if you criticize illegal immigration, your immediately called a racist bigot by the people. Still, if he had any backbone he'd tell em to F' off and do what's best for the nation. And remember, we've always been off-shoring jobs (and i don't believe intellectual property is lost in the jobs that are sent to India because most are like, call center or conferencing or sub-divisions of companies due to teh 12 hour differential) and our deficits are not record deficits. As a % of GDP, they are comparible to most other presidents. Clinton even ran a higher % i believe.

 

[SOS2008]

Actually a study i read about showed that people in America are largely more interested in politics then those in Europe. And when a guy tells me how Americans have a horirble tax system and tells us we have a 1.02% sales tax and told me that i was horribly mistaken thinking our sales taxes are more in teh 6-8% range, i started to wonder exactly how intelligent they all are. When asked, most of the europeans i know had no idea about that oil for food scandal in the UN and a lot of them don't even know we have a Presidential system and that haha, to top it all off, Bush "rigged" the 2004 election (even though there's many lawsuits with evidence of DNC voter fraud). And of course the BBC has shown that its rather biased on the issues by promoting a few rather un-founded articles... but of course they do it on a smaller basis then most american news organizations do unfortunately...

The saying here is it's not correct to discuss politics or religion. These topics can't be discussed in the business capacity, or even social events. I'd like to see that study. Most people I know are not aware of the fillibuster debate right now. We also don't have good voter turn-out. Interest versus informed versus involved? That many foreigners may not know specific details of U.S. issues, that's to be expected. However, they will still know more about our country than we will know about theirs. Did you miss the "rigged" 2004 election thread too?

 

[Pengwuino]

I seem to be missing a lot of threads :D. Of course we won't know as much about their politics then our own but they seem to be butting into our business a lot lately and telling us how our country should be run. And voter turnout isn't that bad... we're on average when it comes to uhm... % of registered voters actually turning out. We're like, last place though when it comes to % of voting capable adults actually turning out because we don't have a lot of the things Europeans have such as distinguishing people on public records who didnt vote and mandatory registration and such.

And why do you discuss politics so much if you know we're not suppose to speak of it :D

 

[Informal Logic]

...they seem to be butting into our business a lot lately and telling us how our country should be run.

Who goes around telling countries how they should be run? Hmm, now where did Bush just go, and what was he preaching?

 

[Burnsys]

Of course we won't know as much about their politics then our own but they seem to be butting into our business a lot lately and telling us how our country should be run.

Here in argentina and all latin america since the 70' all our economic policies are directly and indirectly dictated by the imf and USA...

 

[russ_watters]

Here in argentina and all latin america since the 70' all our economic policies are directly and indirectly dictated by the imf and USA...

You guys really ought to fix that...

 

[Burnsys]

You guys really ought to fix that...

Just a simple example

today most readed argentina' s newspaper

REANUDAN HOY EN WASHINGTON LAS GESTIONES ANTE EL FONDO MONETARIO

Ahora la presión del FMI es por las tarifas y el superávit fiscal
En la lista de preocupaciones del Departamento del Tesoro, y también del FMI, la deuda que sigue en default no figura you en el primer puesto. Hay otros temas más importantes en sus agendas: la suba de tarifas y el marco regulatorio para las empresas de servicios públicos; y el tema fiscal, que incluye el nivel de superávit primario (pedirían alrededor de 5% contra el 3% planteado por Argentina) y la ley de coparticipación o lo que llaman aquí la "federalización del sistema tributario".

...
Translation:

RESUMED TODAY IN WASHINGTON THE MANAGEMENTS BEFORE THE MONETARY FUND
Now the pressure of the IMF is for the private service rates and the fiscal surplus

In the list of worries of the Department of the Treasure, and also of the IMF, the debt that continues in default does not figure already in the first position. There are other more important themes in their agendas: rise in the rates of public services and the regulatory framework for the businesses ; and the fiscal theme, that includes the level of primary surplus (they would ask around 5% against the 3% presented by Argentina) and the law of coparticipación or what call here the "federalización of the tax system".
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Since i have born that i see this kind of news every day...