Racial pride: Should there be double standards for different races?

[pentazoid]

As you may know , currently its okay for non-whites to have be proud of their race,and have organizations devoted to minority causes; but it is not okay for white people to be proud of there racial history without being labeled a racist or a nazi. The non-whites that are proud of there racial history justify their racial pride by saying that they have faced oppression and racism from whites in the past. Personally, I think if we are to truly live in a non-racist society, both whites and non-whites need to stopped acknowledge racial differences and attributing their personality towards race. Besides, pride should not be rooted in something you had absolutely nothing to do with,like your racial background or your gender, pride should be based on the accomplishments you were responsible for throughout your life , whether it be earning straight A's in school, becoming a college graduate , becoming a car mechanic, or even becoming a serial killer. I know that last one will not be good for society, but yet it still takes skill to be an effective serial killer , but that is not the point I am making. My primary point is that pride should only be derived from whatever skill you developed or master.

 

[GCT]

You need to expand your horizons a bit ... the issue of " whites versus nonwhites " soley stems from an American preoccupation. My suggestion to you is to explore your roots and then do some investigation of your history. There is a tendency of the caucasians of the US to not regard their ancestral history and make up erroneous ideas of their own. Remember the caucasians have preponderances of their own - Germans have regarded the English as a mixed version of the Anglo Saxons this is their justification of the repeated invasion of the British territory as well as the French. The English deemed the Germans as being composed of savages and barbarians. Any time their was an invasion their were similar justifications that were similar in nature and vice versa ... the Germans regarded the Japanese as hononary Aryans yet regarded people of more similar roots e.g. Slavs and the English as being unworthy of relations.

 

[pentazoid]

You need to expand your horizons a bit ... the issue of " whites versus nonwhites " soley stems from an American preoccupation. My suggestion to you is to explore your roots and then do some investigation of your history. There is a tendency of the caucasians of the US to not regard their ancestral history and make up erroneous ideas of their own. Remember the caucasians have preponderances of their own - Germans have regarded the English as a mixed version of the Anglo Saxons this is their justification of the repeated invasion of the British territory as well as the French. The English deemed the Germans as being composed of savages and barbarians. Any time their was an invasion their were similar justifications that were similar in nature and vice versa ... the Germans regarded the Japanese as hononary Aryans yet regarded people of more similar roots e.g. Slavs and the English as being unworthy of relations.

I am not suggesting that people shouldn't acknowledge their history. I would be greatly interested in my ancestral history if I had immediate or any access to my ancestral history. I am saying people should be proud of being black or white because they had absolutely nothing to do with and and racial makeup is nothing more than a genetic mutation that has occurred over thousands of years due to being isolated from other groups of humans who lived in different regions with different temperatures around the world. I am talking about every day things? What is the point of having something like black fraternities , black student unions if we are supposed to be an integrated society? Racial pride, like being a member of any political party is just a tribal trait humans must eradicate if progress is supposed to be made in human relations. We must look beyond race if , and acknowledging racial differences will not help heal race relations in the US(or anywhere else).

 

[GCT]

I am not suggesting that people shouldn't acknowledge their history. I would be greatly interested in my ancestral history if I had immediate or any access to my ancestral history. I am saying people should be proud of being black or white because they had absolutely nothing to do with and and racial makeup is nothing more than a genetic mutation that has occurred over thousands of years due to being isolated from other groups of humans who lived in different regions with different temperatures around the world. I am talking about every day things? What is the point of having something like black fraternities , black student unions if we are supposed to be an integrated society? Racial pride, like being a member of any political party is just a tribal trait humans must eradicate if progress is supposed to be made in human relations. We must look beyond race if , and acknowledging racial differences will not help heal race relations in the US(or anywhere else).

Could the English forget the Anglo Saxon invasion of their region ... just observe the historical section of the BBC to find out. Again you are ignoring the historical events that gave rise to such concerns.

Take for example , when Europe became sick of Barbarianism they adopted Christianity , thus easily weeding the Barbarians out.

 

[Phrak]

As you may know , currently its okay for non-whites to have be proud of their race,and have organizations devoted to minority causes; but it is not okay for white people to be proud of there racial history without being labeled a racist or a nazi. The non-whites that are proud of there racial history justify their racial pride by saying that they have faced oppression and racism from whites in the past. Personally, I think if we are to truly live in a non-racist society, both whites and non-whites need to stopped acknowledge racial differences and attributing their personality towards race. Besides, pride should not be rooted in something you had absolutely nothing to do with,like your racial background or your gender, pride should be based on the accomplishments you were responsible for throughout your life , whether it be earning straight A's in school, becoming a college graduate , becoming a car mechanic, or even becoming a serial killer. I know that last one will not be good for society, but yet it still takes skill to be an effective serial killer , but that is not the point I am making. My primary point is that pride should only be derived from whatever skill you developed or master.

"Pride" is the excuse for finding power in numbers. People as a whole would not necessarily find various claims to pride especially virtuous. But if groups talks-it-up enough, it become an accepted norm. What blowns me away are the T-shirts with the Aztec calander. Is this pride in institutionalized human sacrifice, and a blood lust of epic proportions? People are gullible to group-think and easily brainwashed. This is especially true in the halls of academia, where the bully pulpit is held by those with these tendencies within the liberal arts. It doesn't stop at pretending to pride. You get all kinds of classes going on devoted to hating one group or another. Acceptable target groups are: heterosexuals, whites, European decent, blue bloods and and males. [Edit: I left out Christians. Any others?]

 

[pentazoid]

"Pride" is the excuse for finding power in numbers. People as a whole would not necessarily find various claims to pride especially virtuous. But if groups talks-it-up enough, it become an accepted norm. What blowns me away are the T-shirts with the Aztec calander. Is this pride in institutionalized human sacrifice, and a blood lust of epic proportions? People are gullible to group-think and easily brainwashed. This is especially true in the halls of academia, where the bully pulpit is held by those with these tendencies within the liberal arts. It doesn't stop at pretending to pride. You get all kinds of classes going on devoted to hating one group or another. Acceptable target groups are: heterosexuals, whites, European decent, blue bloods and and males. [Edit: I left out Christians. Any others?]

You forgot atheists. I don't think the US would ever elect a president who would openly admit that (s)he is an atheist. Heck, it is almost given that we must do an invocation for a presidential inauguration. Getting back to the topic, yes I think that racism and any other formed of prejudice should be acknowledge so the masses will understand that racism has not completely gone away. However , I don't think the best antidote to fight against racism is for minorities to exhibit racial or ethnic pride just like the nazi's and kkk. Those kinds of acts keep the racial flame lit , when the racial flame should have been blown out ages ago.

 

[Phrak]

You forgot atheists. I don't think the US would ever elect a president who would openly admit that (s)he is an atheist. Heck, it is almost given that we must do an invocation for a presidential inauguration. Getting back to the topic, yes I think that racism and any other formed of prejudice should be acknowledge so the masses will understand that racism has not completely gone away. However , I don't think the best antidote to fight against racism is for minorities to exhibit racial or ethnic pride just like the nazi's and kkk. Those kinds of acts keep the racial flame lit , when the racial flame should have been blown out ages ago.

Good grief, not atheism. Racism hasn't gone away. It's institutionalized as affirmative action. It's regulated as quotas. It's part of academic curricula.

 

[pentazoid]

Good grief, not atheism. Racism hasn't gone away. It's institutionalized as affirmative action. It's regulated as quotas. It's part of academic curricula.

To be fair , racism nowadays isn't just associated with affirmative action. Some remnants of white privilege do exist in parts of america , but I don't think white privilege is very prevalent. For instance , ABC has done a behind the scene special where they would send a white guy and black guy to the apartments complexes , malls , and an assortment of public and private places, and the salespeople there would treat the white person and black person differently.

 

[russ_watters]

Yes, there is still racism out there. But legislating racist practices for the purpose of countering other racism would seem to me to be counterproductive.

 

[turbo]

To be fair , racism nowadays isn't just associated with affirmative action. Some remnants of white privilege do exist in parts of america , but I don't think white privilege is very prevalent. For instance , ABC has done a behind the scene special where they would send a white guy and black guy to the apartments complexes , malls , and an assortment of public and private places, and the salespeople there would treat the white person and black person differently.

It's not just in "parts" of America. When I was drumming up work for technical training work for GP (the 2nd-largest training corp in the world at the time), the guy I was given as project manager/coordinator was a very smart black guy who had spent years in sub service for Navy. Good people-skills and lots of practical experience, he was a perfect fit. --- until we got into the south. We'd go into some chain restaurant on the side of an interstate, and be practically ignored until I started agitating for some service. It was easier to go to some eat-in fast-food place like Fudpucker's in Atlanta, and he'd go grab a small table while I went to the counter and ordered our food and picked it up and paid when my number was called. That was a few years ago, but I don't expect chains like Denny's, Waffle-House, etc have changed too much down there.

 

[pentazoid]

It's not just in "parts" of America. When I was drumming up work for technical training work for GP (the 2nd-largest training corp in the world at the time), the guy I was given as project manager/coordinator was a very smart black guy who had spent years in sub service for Navy. Good people-skills and lots of practical experience, he was a perfect fit. --- until we got into the south. We'd go into some chain restaurant on the side of an interstate, and be practically ignored until I started agitating for some service. It was easier to go to some eat-in fast-food place like Fudpucker's in Atlanta, and he'd go grab a small table while I went to the counter and ordered our food and picked it up and paid when my number was called. That was a few years ago, but I don't expect chains like Denny's, Waffle-House, etc have changed too much down there.

I lived in the south all of my life, and most of the waiters and waittresses I have encountered in the south have not committed any acts of racism towards me . My mother has had a bad experienced at a restaurant where the manager practically ignored her , and she complained to the manager and the waiter was fired because he ignored it. I am not saying that racism is dead, I don't think it is as prevalent as it was 40 years ago. People in the south still hide there racism , but for the most part I don't most people in the south show racial animosity towards each other. I am not trying to deny that racism doesn't exist ,because I had a few racial experiences in my lifetime, I am just saying racism will not go away if people, regardless of race, continued to show acts of racial pride , or create organizations that are exclusively for minorities, whether they be black some black greek organization or the association of black physicists, or a gay pride parade, or some KKK rally , or Neo nazi parade, they impede race relations.

 

[pentazoid]

Yes, there is still racism out there. But legislating racist practices for the purpose of countering other racism would seem to me to be counterproductive.

I wasn't suggesting legislating racist practices. I was only showing Phrak that there are other forms of racism that exist in our society besides affirmative action. s(he) seem to being insinuating that the only type of racism out there today is reverse racism.

 

[Hurkyl]

s(he) seem to being insinuating that the only type of racism out there today is reverse racism.

Can we at least agree that there are segments of society for which reverse racism is the only sort of racism they will encounter?

 

[Phrak]

I wasn't suggesting legislating racist practices. I was only showing Phrak that there are other forms of racism that exist in our society besides affirmative action. s(he) seem to being insinuating that the only type of racism out there today is reverse racism.

Not intended, but it is prevelent, then pretended not to exist. Some of the so-called "liberal" agenda sets me on a rant. So hell-bent on selling hatred, and profiting on discord, they've taken Martin Luther King, Jr. and thrown him out of the room. "I have a dream..." Isn't this your thesis?

 

[Phrak]

I guess I'm biased. This is the part the moves me.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

 

[Proton Soup]

To be fair , racism nowadays isn't just associated with affirmative action. Some remnants of white privilege do exist in parts of america , but I don't think white privilege is very prevalent. For instance , ABC has done a behind the scene special where they would send a white guy and black guy to the apartments complexes , malls , and an assortment of public and private places, and the salespeople there would treat the white person and black person differently.

ya, old boys' clubs and racial preference are certainly still alive, but sometimes it blows up in your face.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/united_states/article/is_bernie_madoff_jewish_very_oy_20081212/

I lived in the south all of my life, and most of the waiters and waittresses I have encountered in the south have not committed any acts of racism towards me . My mother has had a bad experienced at a restaurant where the manager practically ignored her , and she complained to the manager and the waiter was fired because he ignored it. I am not saying that racism is dead, I don't think it is as prevalent as it was 40 years ago. People in the south still hide there racism , but for the most part I don't most people in the south show racial animosity towards each other. I am not trying to deny that racism doesn't exist ,because I had a few racial experiences in my lifetime, I am just saying racism will not go away if people, regardless of race, continued to show acts of racial pride , or create organizations that are exclusively for minorities, whether they be black some black greek organization or the association of black physicists, or a gay pride parade, or some KKK rally , or Neo nazi parade, they impede race relations.

racism in my experience depends on where you are in the south. and blacks are just as racist as whites, here.

 

[Phrak]

You need to expand your horizons a bit ... the issue of " whites versus nonwhites " soley stems from an American preoccupation. My suggestion to you is to explore your roots and then do some investigation of your history.

I didn't attend the MLA conference. But I heard a call for papers--mistaken for a bad speech by a clueless conservative radio talk show host.

Papers were to be devoted to the idea of "being in touch with your ethnic being." which is why you seem to be so concerned with this topic some eight years later. Care to elaborate as to why you think pentazoid or anyone else should expore their roots or get in touch with their ethnic being?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I had a very liberal friend who believed that mixed couples should not marry and have kids. Her reasoning was that it diluted their cultural heritage and that some day it could eventually be lost due to intercultural marriage and breeding.

I don't agree with her but I do see her point to some degree. I don't like 'racial' pride but don't have much issue with 'cultural' pride. One of the reasons, from what I can tell, for the double standard in issues of racial (cultural) pride is that most people don't think white people have a very cohesive or definite cultural heritage outide of the KKK and neo-nazis.
I watched the show Black. White. and was wanting to slap the hell out of some people who convinced some poor young girl that she had no cultural heritage or community and then watched her sit there and cry over this "profound revelation".

Actually that show really peeved me. It was portrayed as the height of insult every time the white family showed any cultural ignorance but when the black family showed theirs it was treated as simple fact rather than stereotyping.

 

[pentazoid]

Can we at least agree that there are segments of society for which reverse racism is the only sort of racism they will encounter?

what do you mean?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

what do you mean?

White people who are treated poorly by 'minorities'. Most often this occurs in dense urban populations.