Santa left charcoal in my stocking (art advice)

[TheStatutoryApe]

My parents apparently realized that I have not done any artwork in quite some time and so decided to get me art supplies for christmas. Not a bad idea really. I have been rather depressed and working on some art may help me feel better. Problem is they gave me charcoal and pastels, media which I have never worked with before.

So I am wondering if anyone here has any experience with these and if they can give me some tips (Zoob where are you?).

I am assuming I will need a good fixative if I ever finish anything I like and want to keep. Does anyone have preferred brands?

I tend to make a lot of mistakes or erase and change things several times while drawing, a bad habit I have never been able to get rid of entirely, and as far as I know I can not do this with either medium. Does anyone know a good way to work around this? I was thinking of light sketching my forms with a pencil before starting in with the charcoal or pastel but that would seem to sort of defeat the point.

I'll be looking up some websites for information on this but would definitely like input from anyone's personal experience.

 

[tribdog]

wow, I hope you meant stocking and not stalking. You know what the judge said about stalking.

 

[tribdog]

You can do quite a bit of erasing with charcoal. I'm not so sure about pastels, but you can't beat them for pure color and there is nothing wrong with a light pencil sketch to start with. I'd say it is essential for the pastel work. In my opinion charcoal should be a lot free-er and I wouldn't use a pencil sketch when working with it, except in a very basic way for proportion and that sort of thing.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Oops... yeah I meant stocking.

I thought if you tried to erase charcoal it would just smear?



edit: if a mod could change my title it would be much appreciated.

 

[tribdog]

actually it erases easier than pencil. get a kneaded eraser. If you've gone super dark in an area you might have a problem erasing it, smears and smudges are part of charcoals charm anyway.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

actually it erases easier than pencil. get a kneaded eraser. If you've gone super dark in an area you might have a problem erasing it, smears and smudges are part of charcoals charm anyway.

I've only tried the pencils, hard lines, so that was probably the issue. Smudging was the one thing I really liked abou the idea of charcoal. I'm just so paranoid about messing up my work.

I have a kneaded eraser. I also have those pencil shaped things made of paper pulp. Those are smudge tools right?

Have you ever used any fixatives?

 

[tribdog]

Have you ever used any fixatives?

I've never need to. I eat lots of bran and I've never been constipated.

 

[turbo]

I've never need to. I eat lots of bran and I've never been constipated.

I think he meant to hold your teeth in.

 

[Evo]

Zooby uses colored pencils. I use mostly pencil, pastels and charcoal.

Fixing mistakes with pastels is super easy simply by going over the area you want to change with the new colors. if you want to go much lighter, you can softly scrape some of the pastel off the paper first, before going back over it in the colors you want.

Here a few "basic" tips. I took an art course in pastels, picked up some great new techniques.

http://painting.about.com/cs/pastels/bb/BYBpastels.htm

 

[DaveC426913]

If you are trying to erase then philosophically you should go to another medium.

The purpose of a charcoal tool is to produce loose and open works. They are excellent for warming up when working from life - do your 30 second and 1 minute gesture drawings using charcoal - great sweeping arcs, flow, movement, curve, no detail. this is critical to loosening up and keeping your eye on the larger flow of the work to follow. Once you're loosened up, you can switch to a medium that allows more control.

I know you like precision in your art. This charcoal is an opportunity to break you of that style and loosen up. Don't simply use it as another flavour of your precision work.



BTW, are they oil pastels or chalk pastels?

 

[turbo]

I've only tried the pencils, hard lines, so that was probably the issue. Smudging was the one thing I really liked abou the idea of charcoal. I'm just so paranoid about messing up my work.

Don't be afraid to experiment with multiple media, like pencil and pastel, etc. Some of my favorite art-work was stuff I did just for fun in college when I was experimenting with drawings in India ink (steel quill pen), colored with watercolors. I have a cousin who makes beautiful floral pictures by tearing and gluing those paint-sample cards you can get in hardware stores. This is up-close so you can see the details - like any impressionistic work, it "comes together" when viewed from a distance.

 

[DaveC426913]

Zooby uses colored pencils. I use mostly pencil, pastels and charcoal.

Fixing mistakes with pastels is super easy simply by going over the area you want to change with the new colors. if you want to go much lighter, you can softly scrape some of the pastel off the paper first, before going back over it in the colors you want.

Here a few "basic" tips. I took an art course in pastels, picked up some great new techniques.

http://painting.about.com/cs/pastels/bb/BYBpastels.htm

I never knew you sketched.

Show! Show!

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I've never need to. I eat lots of bran and I've never been constipated.

Maybe charcoal is the wrong medium for an ape. Hmmmm..

Here a few "basic" tips. I took an art course in pastels, picked up some great new techniques.

http://painting.about.com/cs/pastels/bb/BYBpastels.htm

Thank you Evo!

I know you like precision in your art. This charcoal is an opportunity to break you of that style and loosen up. Don't simply use it as another flavour of your precision work.

BTW, are they oil pastels or chalk pastels?

This is exactly what I am wanting to try. My work rarely flows. It tends to be a long arduous process, though I enjoy it regardless.

They are actually monochromatic gray scale. I think my parents didn't really know the difference between charcoals and pastels and thought they were the same thing. Do they work together? I would assume they have a different consistency.

Don't be afraid to experiment with multiple media, like pencil and pastel, etc. Some of my favorite art-work was stuff I did just for fun in college when I was experimenting with drawings in India ink (steel quill pen), colored with watercolors. I have a cousin who makes beautiful floral pictures by tearing and gluing those paint-sample cards you can get in hardware stores. This is up-close so you can see the details - like any impressionistic work, it "comes together" when viewed from a distance.

That is rather nice.
Most of my work, perhaps due to my original inspirations, tends to be comic bookish. Softer impressionist styles may come hard but should add a softer more realistic quality to my work.

 

[DaveC426913]

They are actually monochromatic gray scale. I think my parents didn't really know the difference between charcoals and pastels and thought they were the same thing. Do they work together? I would assume they have a different consistency.

I don't know. Are they oil or chalk?

 

[DaveC426913]

I have a cousin who makes beautiful floral pictures by tearing and gluing those paint-sample cards you can get in hardware stores. This is up-close so you can see the details

This is so gorgeous I am inspired to try it. I think I'll pull a photo out of my gallery and head to the paint store.

Will you show us the whole thing?

 

[turbo]

That pretty much IS the whole thing, Dave. The larger pieces of paint-chip are almost 2". It's beautifully framed and matted - and the nicest gift she ever gave us. It's a close-up of a flower garden and it looks wonderful from a distance of 8-12 feet or so. Poppies, droopy daisies, hollyhocks... She paints well, and when I saw one of her impressionistic paint-chip creations, my jaw dropped. I must have raved about it enough to please her - a couple of weeks later, she brought this to the house.

 

[DaveC426913]

That pretty much IS the whole thing, Dave.

Oh. OK, good.

That was what I thought at first, then I re-thought: perhaps when you said "up-close ... detail" you meant you were showing us a detail piece.

But if there had been much more to it, you'd lose the detail in the overall.

I like it best the way it is, just balancing on the edge between "seeing the forest" and "seeing the trees" if you know what I mean. It's like a picture that changes every time you blink. The gardeny equivalent of a Necker Cube if you will.


I love your http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x318/turbo-1/" btw. You and I have similar photog styles.

 

[Alfi]

"seeing the forest" and "seeing the trees"

I like it :)

goblets or faces. Almost both if the edge is balanced.

 

[Danger]

I am assuming I will need a good fixative if I ever finish anything I like and want to keep. Does anyone have preferred brands?

We always had good results with Krylon at the sign shop. That was for ink on velum, though; I don't know if it would apply to your needs.

 

[tribdog]

I always used hair spray, but I'd go with the Krylon as well.

If you are going to use pastels get out of the greys. No other medium can match pastels for color intensity. they are pure pigment with none of that oil or acrylic medium dulling things up. well maybe a little binder in there, but they are as pure as you can get.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I don't know. Are they oil or chalk?

I forgot to answer your question lol. They are chalk.

Danger & Trib: Krylon is certainly a standard brand. I had forgotten the name. Its been years since I worked at the art supply store.

 

[tribdog]

they are not chalk. They are soft pastels. The most striking thing about pastels other than their color, is their weight. It looks like a piece of chalk, but weighs about 20 times more. If you can't tell, I love pastels. The only problem I have with them is cost. You could easily spend several thousand dollars on them, but look what you can do with them. These pictures are by Lesley Harrison. I think she's amazing.
http://www.harrison-keller.com/limited_wildlife/step_softly_big.jpg
http://www.harrison-keller.com/limited_wildlife/snow_flurries_big.jpg
http://www.harrison-keller.com/limited_wildlife/popsicle_big.jpg

 

[tribdog]

I'm trying to find a picture of a mountain lion she did, but I can't find it. It's really amazing.
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/gallerydirectart_2030_922652462

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Those are really nice.
I remember from working at the art store that a lot of the supplies were quite expensive. The best pigments were always really pricy. Some tubes of oils we had were priced at up to $80 or more.

 

[tribdog]

I have a 90 dollar brush. Its about the size of a pencil. Number 6 round sable. Well, I used to have a 90 dollar brush. Now I have a 90 dollar pointer. I hate cleaning brushes and sometimes i pay the price.

 

[DaveC426913]

they are not chalk. They are soft pastels.

You've taken it out of context. There are two types of pastels. There are oil pastels and there are chalk pastels, and they support quite different rendering techniques. But if he's got oil pastels, they're not compatible with charcoal.