Understanding the word Schmutzdecke

[pinball1970]

I accepted your correction of what I had said (from my post: "I'll defer to your correction here --"), and I agree with your point that a member of the oboe family is an oboe, and not really a horn.

The flute is in the woodwind section? It's a metal though? It's not reeded either

 

[sysprog]

The flute is in the woodwind section? It's a metal though? It's not reeded either

The flute of today, when it's in an orchestra, is usually regarded as being in the woodwind section, as it is based on non-metallic predecessors (that are still made today). Even though a modern horn being called a horn is due to the fact that in the past, horns were made of animal horn (as some of them still are today), we don't encounter a similar section name assignment convention quandary regarding them as we do regarding metallic flutes, most of which are made at least partly of silver and a few of which are made entirely of gold (James Galway explains that his favorite flutes are made of 24K gold not for purposes of ostentatiousness, but for the sonic impedance of gold, and for other desirable characteristics of that metal, such as its resistance to oxidation); modern horns, pretty much all of which are metallic, are simply regarded as part of the brass section.

 

[almostvoid]

Aside the joke, shouldn't the language be English? (PF rules ...)

Where do you think English came from? Angles and Saxons.

 

[Stavros Kiri]

Where do you think English came from? Angles and Saxons.

"Came from" ... not "is"!

 

[fresh_42]

"Came from" ... not "is"!

"Talk in" ... not "about"!

 

[Stavros Kiri]

"Talk in" ... not "about"!

What do you mean?
[i.e. (probably, ~ ... : ) " "Talk in [what language?]" ... not "about [what language?]"! "]

 

[fresh_42]

Aside the joke, shouldn't the language be English? (PF rules ...)

The rules demand to talk in English, not about English. But in this case it is both: I have read 'schmutzdecke' in an English text.

 

[Stavros Kiri]

The rules demand to talk in English, not about English. But in this case it is both: I have read 'schmutzdecke' in an English text.

But inevitably there's a certain amount of German involved in this thread that we do not understand! [No offense or anything else meant! ...]

 

[pinball1970]

Where do you think English came from? Angles and Saxons.

Plenty of Romans Celts Vikings and Greek influence in there too. I'm sure we've been here before? Deja vu. Yes and French

 

[fresh_42]

But inevitably there's a certain amount of German involved in this thread that we do not understand! [No offense or anything else meant! ...]

For a few words now and then you can use Google / Chrome translate if you wish to know the meaning - regardless which language. Some statements or puns require the use of a foreign language, esp. if language is the subject of the thread.

Rules are made to have a guideline. They do not mean Prussian laws! If somebody wants to make a pun in some language or discusses the origin of certain English words, exceptions can be tolerated.

This does not mean members can hide questionable content behind foreign words! I will translate, delete and warn such attempts. E.g. I have done so as someone used the most favorite Greek swear word $\mu$***.

But e.g. to disallow a debate why there is no English word for (schweigen $\approx$ remain silent, but it is not 100% accurate) would be ridiculous.

 

[Stavros Kiri]

For a few words now and then you can use Google / Chrome translate if you wish to know the meaning - regardless which language. Some statements or puns require the use of a foreign language, esp. if language is the subject of the thread.

Rules are made to have a guideline. They do not mean Prussian laws! If somebody wants to make a pun in some language or discusses the origin of certain English words, exceptions can be tolerated.

This does not mean members can hide questionable content behind foreign words! I will translate, delete and warn such attempts. E.g. I have done so as someone used the most favorite Greek swear word $\mu$***.

But e.g. to disallow a debate why there is no English word for (schweigen $\approx$ remain silent, but it is not 100% accurate) would be ridiculous.

It makes sense to agree that this discussion is within limmits.

as someone used the most favorite Greek swear word $\mu$***.

Lol
I'm sursprised someone actually did that in PF! ...

 

[DrDu]

The "schmutz" part is Yiddish in origin. See https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/schmutz.

Yes, but "Schmutzdecke" is probably not:
http://www.sprachlog.de/2009/01/01/schmutzedecke/

 

[DrDu]

The expression seems to be taken from:

Piefke C. (1887) Die Principien der Reinwasser-Gewinnung vermittelst Filtration. In: Die Principien der Reinwasser-Gewinnung vermittelst Filtration. Springer, Berlin, Heidelberg
https://rd.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-662-33142-2_1or
Piefke, C. Zeitschr. f. Hygiene. (1889) 7: 115. https://doi.org/10.1007/BF02188333

After all, the article calls it the "Schmutzdecke of Piefke".

 

[almostvoid]

Yes, but "Schmutzdecke" is probably not:
http://www.sprachlog.de/2009/01/01/schmutzedecke/

Sowas passiert ueberall. Wir alle machen da mit.

 

[almostvoid]

"Came from" ... not "is"!

"Came from" ... not "is"!

Are you saying the -past- is the -came from- and therefore not being in the present -is- invalidates the comment? Well pardon if so- you see English is my second language. I not as perfect as you. Maybe the second language you are familiar with is better than my clumsy not grammatically correct English. Maybe we can compare notes?

 

[Stavros Kiri]

Are you saying the -past- is the -came from- and therefore not being in the present -is- invalidates the comment? Well pardon if so- you see English is my second language. I not as perfect as you. Maybe the second language you are familiar with is better than my clumsy not grammatically correct English. Maybe we can compare notes?

Kind of yes. I was talking about present PF language, which is modern English.

 

[almostvoid]

Kind of yes. I was talking about present PF language, which is modern English.

which is spelled with American--ese morphological evolving mutating changes. [not a criticism just an observation and comment] so that really American is the modern and English the progenitor thereof.

 

[DrDu]

so that really American is the modern and English the progenitor thereof.

I don't think this is unambiguously true. After all, colonies or people in exile tend to conserve a much more antique language than that spoken in the mother country.

 

[Stavros Kiri]

which is spelled with American--ese morphological evolving mutating changes. [not a criticism just an observation and comment] so that really American is the modern and English the progenitor thereof.

I don't think PF specifies or limits to either one ...

 

[almostvoid]

I don't think this is unambiguously true. After all, colonies or people in exile tend to conserve a much more antique language than that spoken in the mother country.

interesting. The US being colonial historically as well.