US Vice President Cheney Accidentally Shoots Fellow Hunter

[Astronuc]

WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot and injured a man during a weekend quail hunting trip in Texas, his spokeswoman said Sunday.

Harry Whittington, 78, was "alert and doing fine" after Cheney sprayed Whittington with shotgun pellets on Saturday at the Armstrong Ranch in south Texas, said property owner Katharine Armstrong.

Maybe he thought he saw a 'Democrat' or 'Liberal'!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060212/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_hunting_accident

Gun Control thread - https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=86932

 

[Ivan Seeking]

If the guy was far enough away to take the shot without serious injury, then it seems to me that Cheney was being wreckless and shooting too low. I believe that in some states he could be liable for criminal charges. I know that this was the law in Ca. back when I took the NRA gun course, back in the 70's: If you shoot someone, you are almost always at fault. "Whoops" doesn't count; you could still be hit with wreckless endagerment, or some similar charge.

And yes, I am NRA and proud of it.

 

[Cyrus]

Cheney was just using his typical spray and pray method.

 

[SOS2008]

Well at least Cheney was out of the White House where he has caused much more serious damage.

 

[turbo]

As a gun owner and avid hunter and target shooter, I am always dismayed when somebody gets injured or killed by another person's carelessnes. If I were Cheney, I would take this incident as a sign that I had no right to be handling firearms around other people. The man could easily have been blinded.

 

[Archon]

You mean he pulled the trigger without assessing the situation and there were unexpected civilian casualties?

And it wasn't at all Cheney's fault? No! It was God's will: "And by God, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good."

 

[Ivan Seeking]

One time while duck hunting, my dad took a shot and at precisely the same time he stepped on a six foot tall tule branch. Just as I heard the shot the branch slapped me very hard across the face. Not knowing what had happend, I reached up in a panic thinking that my face would be gone! It scared the heck out of me.

Sorry, OT but I hadn't thought of this in a long time.

 

[jhe1984]

At the rifle range, my dad was teaching me how to shoot a .243 he had just bought for me and had scoped, etc. So he loaded up, aimed downrange, and fired. When he turned around, his face was spurting blood. I thought he'd been shot, but he was laughing - which just made it even more unnerving. What'd happened was he forgot that the rifle was sighted in for me and he was a lot taller. It's called being scope-bit. Needless to say, that pretty much ended that lesson for that day. As we were walking out, some of the managers (a lot of them former sheriffs, etc) walked up to him and chuckled. "Don't worry, that happens to a lot of the guy's who come in here's girlfriends." Good times.

 

[SOS2008]

Someone probably asked Cheney about the Plame leak as he was sqeezing the trigger. I'm sure they'll find a way to blame it on Clinton so they won't lose NRA support.

 

[Pengwuino]

If the guy was far enough away to take the shot without serious injury, then it seems to me that Cheney was being wreckless and shooting too low. I believe that in some states he could be liable for criminal charges. I know that this was the law in Ca. back when I took the NRA gun course, back in the 70's: If you shoot someone, you are almost always at fault. "Whoops" doesn't count; you could still be hit with wreckless endagerment, or some similar charge.

I suspect the exact opposite happened. Last time i went out hunting, i was sprayed with some pellets from a guy who was 100 yards away. The bird was pretty high up and the guy hit the bird and then pretty much hit me with a little 2 for 1 deal. I've never hunted quail though, how low do those things go? Pretty interesting experience to be hit like that. It sounds exactly like a shower.

 

[Astronuc]

I've never hunted quail though, how low do those things go?

They usually start on the ground, and usually one's dog (bird dog) flushes them out, and they fly generally low, but sometimes up to maybe 20 feet or so. They are similar to partridges.

http://huntingsociety.org/quailhunting.html

The best-known species in the United States is the northern bobwhite, named from the loud call of the male. A popular game bird, it was originally resident east of the Rockies and north to southern Ontario and New England; it has been successfully introduced in parts of western North America, the West Indies, and New Zealand. It is 8.5 to 10.5 in long, with a slight crest. Males of the northern populations are reddish brown above and white, barred with black, on the belly. The throat and a line above the eye are white; a broad black line extends from the eye backward and around the throat. This white area is buff in the otherwise similar females. In subspecies from the southwestern United States and parts of Mexico, the face, throat, and variable amounts of the rest of the under parts are black.

on huntingsociety.org from Encyclopedia Brittanica.

Try also Quail Unlimited - http://www.qu.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quail

 

[jhe1984]

I'm from Austin and I just found out this guy's someone my family knows. He used to go walking by our house (w. a cane). Nice guy though. I'm suprised he is in as good of shape as he is.

 

[Loren Booda]

It doesn't take a hunter to be concerned about the similarity between Cheney's reckless use of a shotgun and his potential responsibility for launching thousands of conventional or thermonuclear bombs.

 

[Pengwuino]

It doesn't take a hunter to be concerned about the similarity between Cheney's reckless use of a shotgun and his potential responsibility for launching thousands of conventional or thermonuclear bombs.

It takes a rather special person to be concerned about that indeed.

 

[Moonbear]

So, what happens when the VP shoots a lawyer? What I keep wondering is why none of the Secret Service agents who must be swarming all over the place noticed this guy was wandering in the wrong place at the wrong time and shouted out a warning. It's not like he was out with nobody but a bunch of beer-guzzling buddies, he's out with people trained to use all sorts of weapons and paid to notice their surroundings.

 

[Cyrus]

They really should have been standing side by side so that sort of thing would not happen.

 

[SOS2008]

Thankfully Mr. Whittington is okay, and I hope a fast recovery for him. Truly, this is just going to provide material for comedians.

 

[Pengwuino]

So, what happens when the VP shoots a lawyer? What I keep wondering is why none of the Secret Service agents who must be swarming all over the place noticed this guy was wandering in the wrong place at the wrong time and shouted out a warning. It's not like he was out with nobody but a bunch of beer-guzzling buddies, he's out with people trained to use all sorts of weapons and paid to notice their surroundings.

For one, the VP doesn't necessarily have SS all over the place 24/7... and two...

Whittington shot a bird and went to look for it in the tall grass, while Cheney and the third hunter walked to another spot and discovered a second covey.

Whittington "came up from behind the vice president and the other hunter and didn't signal them or indicate to them or announce himself," Armstrong said.

"The vice president didn't see him," she continued. "The covey flushed and the vice president picked out a bird and was following it and shot. And by god, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good."

I'm surprised no one picked up on this funny little nugget:

"Fortunately, the vice president has got a lot of medical people around him and so they were right there and probably more cautious than we would have been," she said. "The vice president has got an ambulance on call, so the ambulance came."

 

[Cyrus]

...and three, you don't start shooting until the guy getting his bird comes back to the group.

and four, "SS all over the place 24/7", yes, he does.

Regan had SS with him when he would go chop down tree's on his ranch.

 

[mattmns]

This guy should be honored. He is what, the second person to be shot by a vice president? And if so, the first one to live to tell about it.

 

[Moonbear]

For one, the VP doesn't necessarily have SS all over the place 24/7

I would think he would, and certainly if he's out in public in a place where people are carrying firearms.

Gotta go with Cyrus on this one...it seems he ignored a pretty basic safety rule, make sure you know where everyone in your group is before you fire!

 

[ComputerGeek]

I suspect the exact opposite happened. Last time i went out hunting, i was sprayed with some pellets from a guy who was 100 yards away. The bird was pretty high up and the guy hit the bird and then pretty much hit me with a little 2 for 1 deal. I've never hunted quail though, how low do those things go? Pretty interesting experience to be hit like that. It sounds exactly like a shower.

What was Newton's law again?

I mean, calculating for air resistance, and gravity, those pelets were probably on their way back to earth.

 

[Pengwuino]

What was Newton's law again?

I mean, calculating for air resistance, and gravity, those pelets were probably on their way back to earth.

Well in Cheney's case and in mine, the pellets were obviously heading down to earth. I was merely pointing out that the situation could have happened in either of 2 situations. 1) Cheney fired high and the guy was very far out and the pellets just landed where he was. This is what happened to me. 2) Cheney fired low and the guy was nearby and he got hit.

Now the first one obviously couldn't have been the case come to think of it because it's somewhat unlikely the pellets were in such a close grouping upon arrival to hit him, what, 3 times above the waist all on the right side? Plus as someone pointed out, those birds fly low to the ground so them being 80 yards up in the air wasn't extraordinarily likely. They definitely should have waited for everyone to regroup before shooting off again. On second thought... why not have a dog? Searching aroudn for your kill in grass is the most frusterating thing i can think of when it comes to hunting! If i did it more, id have an ATV that i would jump on and zoom out there to get it

@Moonbear

I don't understand why the secret service is such a big deal if they were even around in any noteworthy numbers. You're looking after 3 guys, one goes off to pick up something, a bunch of birds fly up... what are they suppose to do? Run up and tackle him down so he doesn't shoot?

I also don't understand what happened really. What does the article mean by "he came up behind Cheney". Did cheney do a 180 and fire at birds behind him? I was taught if you have 3 people, everyone picks a 120 degree sector to shoot at so something like this doesn't happen.

 

[Moonbear]

I don't understand why the secret service is such a big deal if they were even around in any noteworthy numbers. You're looking after 3 guys, one goes off to pick up something, a bunch of birds fly up... what are they suppose to do? Run up and tackle him down so he doesn't shoot?

Not a big deal, but you'd think there'd be several around who might have been paying attention to what was going on who could have shouted "Look out!" or something like that. Who knows, maybe they all decided to hide in the bullet-proof vehicle while Cheney had a loaded weapon.

I also don't understand what happened really. What does the article mean by "he came up behind Cheney". Did cheney do a 180 and fire at birds behind him? I was taught if you have 3 people, everyone picks a 120 degree sector to shoot at so something like this doesn't happen.

That's what's odd...the way the article tells the story, it sounds like the guy was close behind Cheney and Cheney did a 180 and fired right into him or something. The details will probably get clarified on that. But, no matter how you look at it, Cheney must have been pretty reckless. Even if he was shooting high and the other guy was pretty far out, you don't aim in the direction where you know someone else is, precisely because what goes up must come down! And if the guy really was coming up behind Cheney, and Cheney did a 180, well, it seems Cheney is the sort of hunter that was the reason my dad gave up hunting...too many idiots firing at anything that moves without looking who else is around first.

 

[Pengwuino]

Yah, that's what you want to avoid, people who will do 180's and just fire at whatevers moving...

 

[Cyrus]

That is simply not true in this case though. When your shooting at a small, fast moving target like that, you don't have time to look before you shoot. Thats the whole reason you stand close. When that bird pops out of the tall grass, it takes off in a hurry and flys low. It does not fly straight either. It might zip and cut right across you. So you will naturally follow the bird with your gun and might be turned 180 around before you even realize it. The error was not waiting until he united with the group. It was not like he was shooting a slow moving deer. The guy obviously knows how to shoot, he's been doing it all his life. So no more comments about shooting if you don't know what's going on. (Pengwuino)

 

[Pengwuino]

Quiet you!

Aren't quail slow and fat though?? If he's so experienced, why did he spin around like that and fire and hit someone

 

[Cyrus]

No, there fast and small. He did not 'spin like that', pay attention. The bird darted across. So he was following the bird fly from him ---> to the direction of the other guy. So when he followed the bird, the other guy became in the way.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I suspect the exact opposite happened. Last time i went out hunting, i was sprayed with some pellets from a guy who was 100 yards away.

Well, I have been rained on many times which is probably what happened to you. That never hurts anyone - ie when shotguns are used.

 

[rachmaninoff]

McBride did not comment about why the vice president's office did not tell reporters about the accident until the next day. She referred the question to Armstrong, who could not be reached again Sunday evening.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060213/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_hunting_accident"

 

[Moonbear]

It doesn't surprise me they held off on any formal announcement of the incident...first get the story straight, then make sure the guy he shot is doing okay so they can put that in the press release. 24 hours isn't really that long to get an official statement on something.

 

[edward]

Actually this was a fortunate incident compared to three years ago when Cheney/Bush shot the entire country in the foot. One more screw up like Iraq and we won't have a leg to stand on.

 

[scorpa]

Seems to me like both of them are at fault. The guy that got shot should have never NEVER been ahead of the shooters, and Cheney should have been sure of his shot and not blindly shooting like some sort of idiot. Any of this stuff is taught in an BASIC hunter education course, not to mention just common sense. You never go ahead unless you are sure you are clear.

 

[Dawguard]

It doesn't take a hunter to be concerned about the similarity between Cheney's reckless use of a shotgun and his potential responsibility for launching thousands of conventional or thermonuclear bombs.

Oh my god, you're right! Quick, run for the bunkers before the nuclear holocaust is started!
Personally I think he was ordered to kill old people. Think about it, they want to screw up medicaid, social security, retirment pay from big corporations, etc. However, not enough are dying to please them, so Cheney was ordered to shoot the old rancher. So remeber this, if you're an old person and get an invitation to go hunting with the VP, hide as quickly as you can. Your very life might be at stake.

 

[Amp1]

Archon,

You mean he pulled the trigger without assessing the situation and there were unexpected civilian casualties?

Kinda like the Iraq war huh? Funny the victim was so quick to exonerate Cheney and claim fault. (Think he was scared it would be something else he would be shot with besides birdshot if he didn't?)