What is the reality of finding a perfect partner?

[Orefa]

what's wrong with men is they don't get hints.

True. But there's nothing wrong with not "getting" hints so it's not really a shortcoming. Hints are bad. Hints are subject to misinterpretations. Just say what you mean and everyone will understand each other perfectly well.

 

[Orefa]

Well I think you only need to be a real man if you want to make a woman happy!
Who's a real man?

Ouch! This huge list! I don't qualify.

For those who want to be serious about it, if a woman is doomed to unhappyness unless she gets all this then the problem is within herself. Unrealistic expectations are not something to reinforce unless you want to remain forever frustrated.

 

[Evo]

Ouch! This huge list! I don't qualify.
For those who want to be serious about it, if a woman is doomed to unhappyness unless she gets all this then the problem is within herself. Unrealistic expectations are not something to reinforce unless you want to remain forever frustrated.

I only have three basic requirements, funny, intelligent and considerate.

Most men I meet put physical appearance as the first or second criteria in a relationship. I remember one guy I dated that admitted to having found the "perfect" woman for him, but couldn't get past the fact that she was about 10 lbs overweight. He ended up marrying a barbie doll that had an affair and got pregnant by the other guy and broke his heart. I met him shortly after this happened, and he was still looking for another barbie doll.

I've dated many guys that weren't considered physically attractive, but they had great personalities. If a guy can make me laugh, he's instantly attractive. What's wrong with men that no matter how perfect a woman is in every other aspect, physical appearance is the deciding factor. I don't get it.

 

[Lisa!]

For a long time I thought men who couldn't get hints, weren't smart enough or perhaps they wouldn't care enough about you! and certainly nobody wants a man who's not smart or caring! But now I know that's not true. I see women with a very low IQ and not caring enough, who get the hints well. So I assume that it's the way men are.
(But I've met men who get the hints very well and I've found them more intersting people. )

 

[mattmns]

Ughh hints. If these hints are sooooo obvious, why not just say what you are hinting?

 

[The_Professional]

I've dated many guys that weren't considered physically attractive, but they had great personalities. If a guy can make me laugh, he's instantly attractive. What's wrong with men that no matter how perfect a woman is in every other aspect, physical appearance is the deciding factor. I don't get it.

physical appearance is a deciding factor when you first meet someone. in fact, that's where men and women are similar. there's nothing wrong in admitting that. the guys you dated may not be attractive to somebody else, but they are physically attractive to you, at least initially you found something about their appearance that made them attractive to you. if a guy passes the physical attraction test, then he opens his mouth and you like what he says then he gets even more attractive.

in the beginning, when you first meet someone you're always going by appearance at first whether youre a man or woman.

 

[Evo]

physical appearance is a deciding factor when you first meet someone. in fact, that's where men and women are similar. there's nothing wrong in admitting that. the guys you dated may not be attractive to somebody else, but they are physically attractive to you, at least initially you found something about their appearance that made them attractive to you. if a guy passes the physical attraction test, then he opens his mouth and you like what he says then he gets even more attractive.

in the beginning, when you first meet someone you're always going by appearance at first whether youre a man or woman.

No, actually I was not physically attracted to them at all when I first met them, it was only after talking to them that their appearance didn't matter and they became more attractive in my eyes.

The opposite is also true, men that I had an initial attraction to became physically repulsive after talking to them.

 

[ShawnD]

HOW TO MAKE A WOMAN HAPPY
15. a gynecologist

That doesn't seem right. What woman would actually want her boyfriend to do this?

 

[tribdog]

Trib: do you really think I would have said any of that without a way out?

I don't think you thought at all when you wrote that and I don't think you can recover from those statements. I think Evo will make jokes and pretend to forgive you, and probably will even convince herself not to care. I think Gale was really hurt, Girls at her age are usually emotional and have fragile self esteem anyway.

 

[honestrosewater]

It's only the ones regarding men. Frankly, you strike me as a bit of a sheltered shut-in, but I could be wrong. It's like men are more of a curiosity to be studied from afar than anything you have much a personal acquaintance with. Did you grow up with a man in the house?

Hm, well, not exactly. I've mentioned some of this before; it's just not something very pleasant to talk about -- tends to make me ramble too. I had a pretty ****** life early on. I'm the second oldest of four kids. My parents fought all the time, separated when I was 5, divorced when I was 8, mom remarried. Six months later, my dad broke into our house in the night, slit her throat (she survived), killed my stepdad. Dad's in prison for life, mom forbid his family to contact us kids anymore (i.e. so us kids lost most of our family that one night). Mom started drinking a lot, was angry, abusive, alcoholic. I always stood up to her, so we fought a lot. I ran away the first of many times when I was 10, things went downhill from there. By the time I was 13, I wasn't living at home much. My mom pretty much threw me away and so I did too. Mom kicked me out, I was expelled from school, and so on.

What I meant by it not really counting as "dating" is that it was more like a mix of partying and literally fighting guys off of me. I was young and stupid and felt pretty much all alone and got myself into bad situations. A lot of my friends when I was 12 to 15 were in gangs, I drank a lot, did drugs, the guys weren't exactly gentlemen, to put it mildly. You know, like my first time, I was 14, some guys came over to my friend's house, I got way too drunk, went to lay down, he followed me a few minutes later, you get the idea.
My mom's parents had a great marriage, but my grandpa died when I was 15 and she practically died with him (she actually died several years later). I never talked to them about this sort of thing (he was a pastor). Other than them, no, I guess I haven't really been around people in a healthy relationship. When I was 13, the guys were 18; when I was 16, the guys were 30. You can guess what kind of relationship a 30 year old man wants with a 16 year old girl. I mean, I was mature for my age, but not THAT mature for my age.

Anywho, I made a big change when I was 17 and started trying to put my life together. I've learned from my experiences and grown and changed a lot since then. I know all men don't behave that way. I'm just not sure what I want yet. And I probably need to learn new habits around men; it just takes time, I imagine, but I still like to think ahead and be prepared. Maybe I just want to spend time with someone who I think actually cares about me and who I can let my guard down around. Anywho, rambling...

You also seem like the kind of person that'll like a guy, but kill herself overthinking it and never even say anything.

Sure, but I think I tend to overthink things in all areas, not just this one. That's not something I would want to change too much, perhaps just make some small adjustments. I would probably say something now.

Sorry, I'll finish this later. Thinking about the past and stuff kinda drains me.

 

[Evo]

HRW, you don't have to make any excuses for anything you think or feel. You have been quite open with your life and issues on here, and I think that openness probably has helped some people in facing their own demons.

I think considering what you've gone through, you wouldn't be normal if it hadn't somehow affected you. I like the lists you've made of the issues you're dealing with. You openly discuss the fact that you have things to deal with as opposed to the majority that refuse to admit it, even to themselves. That fact alone means that you are "ok".

 

[Hurkyl]

I don't think you thought at all when you wrote that and I don't think you can recover from those statements. I think Evo will make jokes and pretend to forgive you, and probably will even convince herself not to care. I think Gale was really hurt, Girls at her age are usually emotional and have fragile self esteem anyway.

Ok fine, I'll make a serious response.

First off, I was never actually "recovering" or "backpedalling". I tend to be very particular about my words, and have been refining what I mean by "cute" and "attractive" for quite some time. (Unfortunately, most other words, such as "pretty" and "gorgeous" I still find roughly synonymous) I had fully expected that I would need to elaborate upon this after my original posting. Moonbear and Evo gave me beautiful setups, so I carefully worded my follw-ups so that there would be fun for all.

I have a much higher opinion of Evo and Gale than you do -- if I thought, as you seem to do, that they would be crushed if I suggested they might not be perfect in every way, then I would never have made the comment. And I certainly don't think either of them are so frail that they need an attack dog to protect them.

Even worse, if they were hurt, I hardly think making a public scene would make them feel any better -- I know I would be mortified if I was in their position (whether I was hurt or not).

 

[Astronuc]

You guys are much too serious!

You did notice the in post 241?

Actually, about relationships I am serious, because of a history of having seen so many close friends hurt terribly by failed relationships, and in the extreme of having to visit with women who had been hit or beaten by a boyfriend (several times during my college years), having to go after a husband who was chasing his wife while holding their young son under his arm, and having seen women and families abandoned by husbands.

On this matter, my wife was divorced after 11 months of her first marriage because her husband, who had begun visiting bars more than once a week, starting beating her.

I have seen men and women change partners so frequently I couldn't keep count. One close friend has dated about 70 women in the 5-6 years, sometimes 2 or 3 women in a week. His wife left him after 7 years, because she just didn't want to be married anymore. She had issues (e.g. low self-esteem) leftover from her childhood and conflicts with her parents.

My wife has a girlfriend who has been married/engaged/cohabited so many times I've lost track. She comes from a family where the father abandoned the mother and children, and she had to take over because her mother couldn't cope. This woman has had affairs with married men, and has broken up at least one marriage. Her second husband had an affair shortly after they were married and left her for another woman. Her teenage daughter got pregnant at 16-17 out of wedlock.

So yeah, I tend to be a little serious about these matters.

 

[Astronuc]

I only have three basic requirements, funny, intelligent and considerate.

Might a guy showing up at your door with a Teddy Ruxpin under his arm, a DVD of 'Brave Little Toaster', and some knee socks have a chance? How about a trivet?

 

[Evo]

Ok fine, I'll make a serious response.

Actually I WAS crushed. I had to take to my bed and call in sick the rest of the week.

But after the voodoo doll was finished, I felt much better. (I apologize in advance for any gastro-intestinal discomfort you may feel in the next month )

Any woman that tells you that it wouldn't bother them to be told they're not pretty is LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH. We live in a society were physical beauty is is associated with worth, unfortunately.

Honestly, I was upset because I think highly of Hurkyl, but I don't let things get to me and it did become a fun thing for him to "backpedal", it was never meant as anything serious.

Anyway, my psychiatrist says that I'll be emotionally functional again in 1-2 years or when my insurance runs out, whichever occurs first.

I DO agree that Monique is just the CUTEST THING!

Let's all lighten up.

 

[Evo]

Might a guy showing up at your door with a Teddy Ruxpin under his arm, a DVD of 'Brave Little Toaster', and some knee socks have a chance? How about a trivet?

Wow, my DREAM MAN! :!) :!) :!)

Why can't men like you exist in the real world?

 

[loseyourname]

Hm, well, not exactly. I've mentioned some of this before; it's just not something very pleasant to talk about -- tends to make me ramble too. I had a pretty ****** life early on. I'm the second oldest of four kids. My parents fought all the time, separated when I was 5, divorced when I was 8, mom remarried. Six months later, my dad broke into our house in the night, slit her throat (she survived), killed my stepdad. Dad's in prison for life, mom forbid his family to contact us kids anymore (i.e. so us kids lost most of our family that one night). Mom started drinking a lot, was angry, abusive, alcoholic. I always stood up to her, so we fought a lot. I ran away the first of many times when I was 10, things went downhill from there. By the time I was 13, I wasn't living at home much. My mom pretty much threw me away and so I did too. Mom kicked me out, I was expelled from school, and so on.

Well, see, that is a lot to overcome. In a way, I think part of my personality would almost be ideal for a woman like you. First, I'm extremely patient, and second, I expect very little from people other than that they be easygoing and let me be; I'll pretty much do the same.

The problem is that persons who have been through a childhood like that are almost impossible to get intimate with; they'll distance themselves and push you away, often by doing outrageous and hurtful things, or simply be being cold (frankly, who can blame someone like you for not wanting to be vulnerable). I've been with girls before that had troubled pasts (heck, even some comparable to what you just described) and something always seems to break down in them psychologically. The closer you get to breaking through, the intenser and more difficult it gets. I had more energy and belief when I was younger; at this point it just isn't worth it. Hell, I'm reticent to date anyone whose parents divorced.

Anywho, I made a big change when I was 17 and started trying to put my life together. I've learned from my experiences and grown and changed a lot since then. I know all men don't behave that way. I'm just not sure what I want yet. And I probably need to learn new habits around men; it just takes time, I imagine, but I still like to think ahead and be prepared. Maybe I just want to spend time with someone who I think actually cares about me and who I can let my guard down around.

Well, it's hard to consider not having a boyfriend some kind of defeat when any normal person would probably be in prison by now. I guess Adam and Drew aren't kidding with their "Florida or Germany" game (in fact, a friend of mine from Germany has told some equally disturbing stories). Maybe what you need to do is move elsewhere, someplace laid back like Monterrey or Tucson.

Sure, but I think I tend to overthink things in all areas, not just this one. That's not something I would want to change too much, perhaps just make some small adjustments. I would probably say something now.

Well, given what you just said, I can understand why you would have difficulty relating to men as emotive human creatures not so different from you. What reason do you have to believe that is the case? You can know it intellectually, but chances are that your instincts are always going to tell you otherwise.

Honestly, though, you're still my favorite person on these forums and I'd love to hang out with you anytime, even if I'd be scared as a beatup little puppydog to date you. We could watch some football and discuss romance languages anyday (in theory anyway - with luck, I'll never have any reason to go anywhere near the Florida swamplands).

 

[loseyourname]

I remember one guy I dated that admitted to having found the "perfect" woman for him, but couldn't get past the fact that she was about 10 lbs overweight. He ended up marrying a barbie doll that had an affair and got pregnant by the other guy and broke his heart. I met him shortly after this happened, and he was still looking for another barbie doll.

You know, that's not always true. I've dated way more than my fair share of women that were not all that physically attractive. Heck, the women I've been with for the last two years is a good 20 pounds overweight (though she's still very pretty) and it doesn't bother me at all.

Besides, I hate to have to point this out, but if you've been so willing to date guys that made you laugh but weren't particularly good-looking, and it still didn't work out, what's the difference?

 

[Astronuc]

Why can't men like you exist in the real world?

Sorry about that. I was trying for a , , or , but not .

Well, I do exist in this world, but unfortunately our timing was a bit off.

I expect there are others.

 

[Evo]

Besides, I hate to have to point this out, but if you've been so willing to date guys that made you laugh but weren't particularly good-looking, and it still didn't work out, what's the difference?

I'm just saying I won't refuse to date a guy based on looks. Whether they're good looking or not is no assurance the relationship will last.

I've had some long term relationships, but decided to part for various reasons.

 

[tribdog]

aw, there's only one Astronuc thank god

 

[tribdog]

I'm just saying I won't refuse to date a guy based on looks. Whether they're good looking or not is no assurance the relationship will last.
I've had some long term relationships, but decided to part for various reasons.

various reasons for you maybe, did the guys think there were various reasons? or did they all think it was over because:
a.) Evo dumped me
b.) Evo is crazy
3.) I feared for my life
s.) I can't compete with PF, and I'm sick of playing tribdog in her fantasies.
V.) all of the above

guys are simpler and rarely have various anythings

 

[loseyourname]

I'm just saying I won't refuse to date a guy based on looks. Whether they're good looking or not is no assurance the relationship will last.

Yes, but you were also criticizing a certain set of selection criteria, despite the fact that your own have not netted you any additional success. Granted, the guy you used as an example sounded pretty stupid.

 

[Moonbear]

Does anyone really have selection criteria all spelled out? When people ask me what I look for in a guy, my answers are really based on what traits have my past boyfriends had that initially attracted me to them. But, I can't be sure that's what I'd want in the next guy I met...afterall, the guys with those traits are all "ex" now. I wouldn't really limit myself. Something has to seem attractive, but I would expect it probably would be something different in someone who was going to be different enough to not be an ex eventually. I think the best I can do is have my list of things that are definite deal breakers, based on my likes and dislikes and past experience of what has led relationships down the drain, but I'm probably not going to find someone with those traits particularly attractive in the first place.

 

[Evo]

Yes, but you were also criticizing a certain set of selection criteria, despite the fact that your own have not netted you any additional success. Granted, the guy you used as an example sounded pretty stupid.

He was the most shallow guy I have ever dated. He used to think he was cool because he wore Doc Martins. Yeah, he was one of those.

 

[The_Professional]

Does anyone really have selection criteria all spelled out? When people ask me what I look for in a guy, my answers are really based on what traits have my past boyfriends had that initially attracted me to them. But, I can't be sure that's what I'd want in the next guy I met...afterall, the guys with those traits are all "ex" now. I wouldn't really limit myself. Something has to seem attractive, but I would expect it probably would be something different in someone who was going to be different enough to not be an ex eventually.

let me take a shot at it: a guy who looks like cary grant and makes you laugh like jim carrey.

 

[tribdog]

let me take a shot at it: a guy who looks like cary grant and makes you laugh like jim carrey.

you called?

 

[The_Professional]

you called?

did you close for her home phone?

 

[tribdog]

heck no. She won't even tell me her home state.

 

[Lisa!]

Ouch! This huge list! I don't qualify.
For those who want to be serious about it, if a woman is doomed to unhappyness unless she gets all this then the problem is within herself. Unrealistic expectations are not something to reinforce unless you want to remain forever frustrated.

Don't take it serously!
I think a guy with that characteristics deserve to be God not a boyfriend or husband!

Ughh hints. If these hints are sooooo obvious, why not just say what you are hinting?

I dunno! Perhaps women like hints. When I'm talking to me, I try not to hint and say what I want directly, and even interpret others' hints!

 

[tribdog]

Has anyone ever read the Men are from mars/women are from venus book? I know it is corny, but I learned quite a bit from it and I'm a much better dater/lover than I was and I was pretty damn good to start with.

 

[Monique]

Any woman that tells you that it wouldn't bother them to be told they're not pretty is LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH. We live in a society were physical beauty is is associated with worth, unfortunately.

There are so many more adjectives besides cute! How about sophisticated or chique?

I DO agree that Monique is just the CUTEST THING!

Awwhh you guys are sweet!

 

[Lisa!]

I just read the first chapter! I might read the rest of it 1 day.

 

[tribdog]

I hate to make generalities in here, because as soon as I said something about 'women' or 'men' I'd get 100 anal retentive comments about how they are not like that and I don't know what I'm talking about. But I felt that the book was dead on. For example, my girlfriend would always 'offer' advice on how to do things and I would get irritated but I didn't know why. I knew how to do whatever it was and didn't like her second guessing me. I also knew that when I had a problem I needed to work it out in my head and didn't want her input.
Men in general feel the same as I did. The book explained that women see things differently and the comments on how to do things shouldn't be taken as lack of confidence in the man's abilities. And while men go into their "cave" to think things through women gather together to "talk" things through. I also learned that my habit of always coming up with a solution to my girlfriend's problems is just as irritating to her as her comments were to me. She just wanted to complain about something and wanted me to listen, not try to solve whatever it was.
These are not Earth shattering pieces of information, but it was enough to get me seeing things from the female perspective that I am now a lot more considerate, less irritable and a better listener. I would be a perfect boyfriend if I didn't have this streak of modesty.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

I like that you read a book to learn why external input bothers you. There's a sense of flagelation to it.