What is the reality of finding a perfect partner?

[honestrosewater]

HRW, you don't have to make any excuses for anything you think or feel. You have been quite open with your life and issues on here, and I think that openness probably has helped some people in facing their own demons.
I think considering what you've gone through, you wouldn't be normal if it hadn't somehow affected you. I like the lists you've made of the issues you're dealing with. You openly discuss the fact that you have things to deal with as opposed to the majority that refuse to admit it, even to themselves. That fact alone means that you are "ok".

Thanks, Evo. That's really nice to hear.

By the way, I didn't mean to make it sound like my life has been all bad; I've had plenty of good times too.

Any woman that tells you that it wouldn't bother them to be told they're not pretty is LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH. We live in a society were physical beauty is is associated with worth, unfortunately.

Funny story: I sent some pictures to someone a while ago on AIM, and like five seconds after they got them, the person signed off. I couldn't do much but laugh and feel like a complete ***. I was more surprised than anything else because it didn't seem like something they would do -- wondered how I had misjudged them so horribly. It turned out that their connection just had very bad timing, but, yeah, it was not a nice feeling.

 

[Mk]

Yep, something like that's happened to me before... ha ha ha...

 

[Astronuc]

hrw, I concur with Evo,

HRW, you don't have to make any excuses for anything you think or feel. You have been quite open with your life and issues on here, and I think that openness probably has helped some people in facing their own demons.
I think considering what you've gone through, you wouldn't be normal if it hadn't somehow affected you. I like the lists you've made of the issues you're dealing with. You openly discuss the fact that you have things to deal with as opposed to the majority that refuse to admit it, even to themselves. That fact alone means that you are "ok".

from your post (post 255), you have certainly experienced far more than a fair share of misfortune. I can only imagine it makes one weary to re-live and recount those experiences. Yet you have survived.

Reflect on what you want from a relationship and what you wish and will give to a relationship, and what is given and received should balanced - reciprocity.

Were I a young man, I would not be scared to date you. The fact that you can talk about your experiences is good. I would want/need you to be able to talk to me about your experiences, and I would want to know. I would wish to be able to share my experiences with. In this way, two souls connect and form a bond.

The basic criteria in a successful long-term relationship is the ability to open/expose oneself to another ('the' other) and still be accepted. In a relationship, one is at one's most vulnerable - hence the greatest of highs when things work, and the greatest of lows when they don't. Biochemically one could probably attribute the process to neural activity, or response to serotonin or dopamine. But spiritually, the relationship process goes to the core of what it is to be human.

Never give up hope, and never give up on yourself!

 

[honestrosewater]

Well, see, that is a lot to overcome. In a way, I think part of my personality would almost be ideal for a woman like you. First, I'm extremely patient, and second, I expect very little from people other than that they be easygoing and let me be; I'll pretty much do the same.

Yeah, sounds nice. I'm usually only serious about people getting hurt and am pretty easy when it comes to everything else.

The problem is that persons who have been through a childhood like that are almost impossible to get intimate with; they'll distance themselves and push you away, often by doing outrageous and hurtful things, or simply be being cold (frankly, who can blame someone like you for not wanting to be vulnerable). I've been with girls before that had troubled pasts (heck, even some comparable to what you just described) and something always seems to break down in them psychologically. The closer you get to breaking through, the intenser and more difficult it gets. I had more energy and belief when I was younger; at this point it just isn't worth it. Hell, I'm reticent to date anyone whose parents divorced.

Sure, who can blame anyone for not wanting to be vulnerable? I don't think it's healthy to actually want to risk injury to yourself. If a person who gets shocked every time they press a button continues undauntedly to press the button, I'd either think that something was wrong with them that they can't make the association and adjust their behavior accordingly or wonder what they know that I don't.

I don't think I'm necessarily doomed to keep a wall between myself and everyone else or to repeat the mistakes of my parents and others in my life. If I actually believed that I would end up hurting everyone I ever got close to, killing my spouse, and abusing my children, I would just never get close to anyone, marry, or have children. But I'm already aware of those things and seem to have enough control over my behavior that I seriously doubt the last two will ever happen (not that I plan on getting married or having children, mind you). The first one is tough. I guess that's what I'm working on now.

Well, it's hard to consider not having a boyfriend some kind of defeat when any normal person would probably be in prison by now. I guess Adam and Drew aren't kidding with their "Florida or Germany" game (in fact, a friend of mine from Germany has told some equally disturbing stories). Maybe what you need to do is move elsewhere, someplace laid back like Monterrey or Tucson.

Or my dream island, Santorini, Greece. (Relax, the volcano is closely monitored, and its last eruption was the largest in recorded history, so it's probably still tired.)

Well, given what you just said, I can understand why you would have difficulty relating to men as emotive human creatures not so different from you. What reason do you have to believe that is the case? You can know it intellectually, but chances are that your instincts are always going to tell you otherwise.

Maybe. I've known some nice men in real life and there are several here at PF. Well, they seem nice, of course. I guess that's why they call it a risk.

Honestly, though, you're still my favorite person on these forums and I'd love to hang out with you anytime, even if I'd be scared as a beatup little puppydog to date you. We could watch some football and discuss romance languages anyday (in theory anyway - with luck, I'll never have any reason to go anywhere near the Florida swamplands).

Thanks, but I hope you know that this means there's officially something wrong with you. I'll drop your certificate in the mail today.
Maybe there's nothing to worry about. I think I might be too cautious to cause too much damage. Unless being too cautious is what causes the damage... hmmm...
Swamplands? What do you have against Florida anyway?

 

[tribdog]

Yeah, sounds nice. I'm usually only serious about people getting hurt and am pretty easy when it comes to everything else.

yeah, I've heard that. you're getting cuter and more attractive every time you open your le... I mean mouth.

 

[Moonbear]

He was the most shallow guy I have ever dated. He used to think he was cool because he wore Doc Martins. Yeah, he was one of those.

Okay, first I had to look up what Doc Martens look like (I've heard the name, but other than knowing it refers to some brand of shoes, had no idea what they looked like or anything). Then once I saw what they look like......they look like they're probably very comfortable shoes......but why would anyone think they're cool? They look like a scary Frankensteinish attempt to combine a sneaker with a loafer...or something. It reminds me of these weird shoes I saw at a shoestore once...thankfully I was out shopping with a friend so I could immediately point at them and laugh without bursting at the seams. They looked like...well...it was sort of like the old running shoes, but maybe crossed with a bowling shoe look, and these gawd-awful colors, like aqua blue with pink stripes and vice versa, with skinny 4" heels on them. Other than to provide comic relief to the shoppers encountering them on the shelves, I don't know who would buy something like that or what occasion or outfit you could possibly find for wearing them. They did get us back laughing after a tiring day of shopping though.

 

[Moonbear]

let me take a shot at it: a guy who looks like cary grant and makes you laugh like jim carrey.

Nope. Cary Grant is too pretty (most "leading men" types in the movies are...they have almost a feminine appearance to me). And Jim Carrey rarely makes me laugh...I prefer a more subtle, sarcastic sense of humor.

Though, I'm not even sure what it is that I do find attractive about male appearances. I don't think any of the guys I've dated have seemed physically attractive to me when I first met them or saw them. It was always something else that caught my attention first...attitude, conversation, and then once I found him attractive for all those reasons, the physical attraction just kicked in. Well, maybe that's just it...I'm a bit turned off by guys who are strutting around like peacocks trying to show off their feathers. If he's so full of himself to think I'm going to be interested in him based on appearances alone, I'm probably not going to be interested. If he strikes up an actual conversation with me and can talk about more than just sports and drinking, I'm going to stick around to learn more about him.

 

[tribdog]

and speaking from experience if he doesn't put out he get's dropped like a crunchy booger.

 

[Astronuc]

Well, here is the other part of a relationship.

One of my best friends, whom I have known from high school (about 35 years), just sent me an email that his spouse (partner) recently died. They were together 9 years.

And I am really bummed.


One thing to consider in a relationship is being there when the partner is ill, seriously ill, and possibly terminally so. Think about whether a prospective partner would be around in the end.

 

[Moonbear]

Well, here is the other part of a relationship.
One of my best friends, whom I have known from high school (about 35 years), just sent me an email that his spouse (partner) recently died. They were together 9 years.
And I am really bummed.

Sorry to hear that.

One thing to consider in a relationship is being there when the partner is ill, seriously ill, and possibly terminally so. Think about whether a prospective partner would be around in the end.

I agree on that, you really have to consider the long-term, not just whether it's fun now. The one guy I did consider marrying was the one I could envision really growing old together with him...I could picture us getting old, gray and wrinkled, and still being in love...unfortunately, he didn't have similar visions for our future.

 

[tribdog]

yes I did, hun.

 

[Lisa!]

Well, here is the other part of a relationship.
One of my best friends, whom I have known from high school (about 35 years), just sent me an email that his spouse (partner) recently died. They were together 9 years.

Sorry to hear that!

One thing to consider in a relationship is being there when the partner is ill, seriously ill, and possibly terminally so. Think about whether a prospective partner would be around in the end.

I have a question:
Do you think people would want to date someone who they like a lot but they know she's suffering from some kind of incurable disease which might cause some kind of disability in the future or even death? I mean you get to know that your beloved 1 is sick before you strat dating her/him!

 

[Moonbear]

Do you think people would want to date someone who they like a lot but they know she's suffering from some kind of incurable disease which might cause some kind of disability in the future or even death? I mean you get to know that your beloved 1 is sick before you strat dating her/him!

I think some people would, but not a lot. More people would probably keep themselves more emotionally distant from someone they know is terminally ill, so not develop enough of a relationship to get to that point. However, if you're already referring to them as "your beloved one," then that would imply you already are emotionally close to them, in which case, it's more likely someone would let their love prevail and stay with that person.

 

[NateTG]

Do you think people would want to date someone who they like a lot but they know she's suffering from some kind of incurable disease which might cause some kind of disability in the future or even death? I mean you get to know that your beloved 1 is sick before you strat dating her/him!

As Moonbear pointed out, you're begging the question -- asking whether someone will fall in love with the person they love. Moreover, life is an incurable lethal illness, so, pretty much everyone qualifies, and people do get into relationships despite that.
More directly adressing the issue of relationships with dysfunctional people (deliberately lumping all kinds of problems together), they too do happen all too frequently, and terminal illness is certainly not an insurmountable obstacle.
There's apparently some sociological research out there that suggests that relationships tend to have long term lasting power if there is a good to bad ratio of roughly 5 to 1 or better. So, even if the partnership's problems are significant, as long as there is enough positive stuff going on in the relationship, things can work out.
There are, of course, deal-breaker turn offs, but most of them are really things that prevent the relationship from happening in the first place, rather than being ones that prevent the relationship from being successful. Well-established relationships can be quite durable.

 

[Astronuc]

Do you think people would want to date someone who they like a lot but they know she's suffering from some kind of incurable disease which might cause some kind of disability in the future or even death? I mean you get to know that your beloved 1 is sick before you strat dating her/him!

It is possible, but very rare.

One of my cousin's daughters, who recently died of a long term illness (cystic fibrosis) had a boyfriend. The young man new the young lady would likely die, but decided to have a very close relationship anyway. Such people are very extraordinary.

 

[Monique]

I once watched a television show/documentary about a couple, where the girl developed a brain tumor after dating this guy for a month. She told him she'd understand if he wouldn't want to date her anymore, he told her she was crazy. He stuck with her through her illness and ended up marrying her.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

They look like a scary Frankensteinish attempt to combine a sneaker with a loafer...or something.

They're supposed to be boots.

 

[Moonbear]

They're supposed to be boots.

They didn't look like boots in the pictures I found. Maybe they've expanded their line?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

They didn't look like boots in the pictures I found. Maybe they've expanded their line?

Yeah, I just looked at a website with some of their products and they have a lot more than just boots now.
Doc's were originally a british military boot that started selling to the private sector from what I have been told.
They gained popularity with the brit punk scene eventually making their way over here to the US. Aside from being used for work boots they are most popular with punks, skinheads, rivetheads, and other "alternative" subcultures.

 

[Moonbear]

Yeah, I just looked at a website with some of their products and they have a lot more than just boots now.
Doc's were originally a british military boot that started selling to the private sector from what I have been told.
They gained popularity with the brit punk scene eventually making their way over here to the US. Aside from being used for work boots they are most popular with punks, skinheads, rivetheads, and other "alternative" subcultures.

Oh, those kind of boots!

 

[The_Professional]

i always thought the 6-eyelet steel toed boot was the best, though it's rare to find one these days except ebay.

 

[honestrosewater]

yeah, I've heard that. you're getting cuter and more attractive every time you open your le... I mean mouth.

Why would me opening my mouth not also imply sex? Nevermind, no need to answer; I don't want to embarrass anyone.

 

[ShawnD]

Why would me opening my mouth not also imply sex? Nevermind, no need to answer; I don't want to embarrass anyone.

Because what normally procedes opening of the mouth is "now where's my $50?", right Trib?

 

[Astronuc]

cute - endearing

pretty/attractive - pleasant to look at

beautiful - very pleasant to look at

very beautiful - most beautiful - I could look into her eyes for a lifetime and beyond, to the end of time - and we'd make more time.

hot - look, but don't touch. Actually, I wouldn't be interested. A woman or man who has to advertise indicates problems, e.g. low self-esteem, needy, poor judgement, potentially superficial relationship.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Well to be honest people who ask the question: what is wrong with men?: usually should also ask in equal measure what is wrong with themselves, that said it's quite obvious with the length of this thread that there is an awful lot wrong with men , but then if you started a thread, what is wrong with women I would imagine it would be just as long. And their in lies the rub

As you get older you try and look past beauty as a guy, but then some drop dead gorgeous babe walks in the room and your default 14 year old teenager behaviour kicks in. No matter how well reasoned are your arguments, there are just going to be some women - and I'm sure this is true in the oposite situation - that just turn you into a gibbering fool. And long may this remain so:!)

 

[quantumcarl]

I once watched a television show/documentary about a couple, where the girl developed a brain tumor after dating this guy for a month. She told him she'd understand if he wouldn't want to date her anymore, he told her she was crazy. He stuck with her through her illness and ended up marrying her.

Hi Monique... its been a very long time since I saw your cute configurations of the alphabet!

After a month on the cell phone with her new boy friend I don't doubt that the girl got a brain tumour.

Look what happened to lawyer Jonny Cochrane... and we all know how much lawyers use a cell.

If the guy told the girl she was "crazy" I hope he wasn't referring to a condition that can arise from a brain tumour... or that she didn't take it that way.

Sticking with someone through trying times is a great way to bond with them. This is probably the way many couples make it... through good and bad and rich and poor etc... as in marrage.

Once I was with a "brain tumour patient" on the roof of the clinic where I worked. I had been studying the effects of colour on tumours. The most effective colour for shrinking them is red... a pure and perfect red pigment or light.

I told him to paint his room red or to spend time under a rich red light every day... preferably with this head exposed. I don't know what happened to him after that. I didn't see him around anymore. Its hard to know if someone will just write off what you've said as Crockery or if they'll get the colour wrong or any billion of other variables. But, things progress as it is. Good to see you!

 

[honestrosewater]

Well to be honest people who ask the question: what is wrong with men?: usually should also ask in equal measure what is wrong with themselves

By the way, the title was just a joke, in case anyone missed that.

 

[Astronuc]

By the way, the title was just a joke, in case anyone missed that.

I would hope by now it's obvious the title was tongue-in-cheek.

Schrodinger's Dog has a good point - what is wrong with themselves - but the important questions are: 1) what do I want in a relationship, and 2) what do I have to offer and will offer in a relationship. One must be congizant of one's needs and wants, and also what another's needs and wants are.

The needs and wants also change with age.

Teenagers are in the stage of going from being fully dependent children to independent adults, while simultaneously dealing with the development of sexuality. And therein lies many of the problems.

Young adults are either starting jobs or obtaining advanced education leading to better careers. Still they are dealing with issues from childhood and sexual tension. Then there is the issue of teenagers having children.

At some point, adults get married and that often leads to children. Here a secure relationship is vital - and unfortunately 60% of first marriages fail. It is more troubling when children are involved, because one spouse, usually the mother is left struggling to raise the children.

Even if a marriage is successful, once the children are nearing maturity, adults find themselves older. In relationships which have deferred issues to raise the children, old problems arise with new ones, and needs and wants may have changed.

Then the children leave, and two parents are again alone, 20+ years older than when the children were born. It takes a good relationship from the very beginning to sustain a long term marriage.

Also the needs of men and women vary with age. Older men wanting children for the first time, will want younger women. Older women beyond a certain age may not want children, or face increasing health risk if they try to have children. And then there is issue of an older parent raising an infant and young child. It does happen, and it can be successful.

Men and women in their late 50's and on may simply be looking more for companionship, and perhaps there are still those who still need 'someone to take care of them.'

Just some thoughts to consider.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

yeah I see it as being jokey but at the same time if you're are asking that question even in jest (where many a true word is spoken) then as is so often the case with loaded questions your going to have to ask yourself why you asked it in the first place. As far as I see it(no expert in relationships myself by a long, long shot) most people start off with preconcieved notions of what they want out of a man or a woman that a man or woman never lives up to. We learn slowly to accept that our true love is not going to wander into our lives every day we feel lonely.

Relationships are about compromise as I said before. Finding that perfect match takes a lot of hard work for most, sometimes Juliet or Romeo wanders into your life and you get married age 14 and sometimes you get married age 50. Just seems to be the way it works.