Why is the Second Law of Thermodynamics Empirical?

In summary, Sheehan argues that the second law is empirical and not fully certain, while also stating that it has a valid proof.
  • #1
noblegas
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The second law of thermodyanics states that heat cannot flow from a colder region of space to a hotter region; When you open a door that previously separates your warm house from the cold outside; What substance/process is flowing then to drive the heat out of your warm house to make your house cold ?
 
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  • #2
The temperature difference between the inside and outside temperatures is what drives the process.

Thanks
Matt
 
  • #3
but the second law does not state that heat cannot flow from a cold to hot body,it can flow but some work must be expended to achieve it.
 
  • #4
Yes, that is why air conditioning is costly.
 
  • #5
convection
 
  • #6
Also, the heat from your house flows to the colder region making the house itself colder and the colder region hotter.
 
  • #7
When you open a door and the house cools that is not the second law of thermodynamics at work it is simply warm air from the house flowing out and being replaced by cool air from the outside. What the second law says is if you have a hot brick in a cold room the brick will always cool down and never warm up.
 
  • #8
come on folks - cold air is denser than warm air, and that drives convection. Also conduction exists but it is minor
anyhow do not be fooled, heat flows from cold to hot and from hot to cold. What? Yup. It is just that the net flow of heat is generally from hot to cold
 
  • #9
God I know what my gut tells me about the second law, it is just that I am not fully armed to take it down yet. No matter I will answer you in part.

To me the second law is a result of our thermodynamic perspective. I started a new thread so go read it if you care to and if so thanks. And yes it was backed by statistical arguments but they are primarily based upon our isothermal isobaric world (I know I may be biting off a bit too much because it has been too long since I studied the statistical stuff.

To me in part, the problem may have some origins in our omitting blackbody radiation from a system’s energy. I am sorry but that is all I can say until I get my head around something.

I will say this I believe that people like the guy who did the marble experiment a few years back and Dan Sheehan are right, that the second law needs to be challenged

Sheehan 52stated that: “The second law of thermodynamics is an empirical law. It has no fully satisfactory theoretical proof. This being the case, its absolute validity depends upon its continued experimental verification in all thermodynamic regimes.”

To me the second law is a result, as witnessed by us residing upon isobaric isothermal mother Earth. The key word, being result. I frown when we use it as a reason , i.e. cosmology.

Can I leave it at that for now, while I ponder how to rattle its cage in the simplest terms because complicated arguments cannot be defended by anyone. The corollary remains that complicated arguments also cannot be defeated by anyone

Cheers and I need a beer
Talk to you tomorrow
 
  • #10
Um, who's Sheehan? And...Earth is neither isobaric nor isothermal.
 
  • #11
why on Earth should the second law of thermodynamics be an empirical ?
it does have a valid proof
 

FAQ: Why is the Second Law of Thermodynamics Empirical?

What is the second law of thermodynamics?

The second law of thermodynamics is a fundamental principle in physics that states that the total entropy of a closed system (which is a measure of the disorder or randomness of the system) will always increase over time. In other words, the natural tendency of any system is to move towards a state of maximum disorder.

How is the second law of thermodynamics related to the concept of energy?

The second law of thermodynamics is closely related to the concept of energy because it describes the natural flow of energy in a closed system. As entropy increases, the amount of useful energy (or free energy) in a system decreases, meaning that energy is no longer available to do work. This is why the second law is often referred to as the law of increasing entropy.

Can the second law of thermodynamics be violated?

No, the second law of thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature and cannot be violated. This means that all physical processes and systems must adhere to this law, and any apparent violations are due to incomplete or incorrect understanding of the system.

How does the second law of thermodynamics apply to living organisms?

The second law of thermodynamics applies to living organisms in that it explains why they require a constant input of energy to maintain their highly ordered and complex structures. Without this input of energy, living systems would eventually break down and cease to function.

What are some real-life examples of the second law of thermodynamics in action?

There are many examples of the second law of thermodynamics in action, including: the cooling of a hot cup of coffee, the rusting of metal, the burning of fuel in an engine, and the aging process of living organisms. In all of these examples, energy is being transformed and entropy is increasing.

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