Should I Come Out as an Atheist to My Religious Family and Friends?

[Moonbear]

?It seems you have twisted your religion to suit the concepts of science. Why did you abandon religion if it did not contradict anything scientific?

You seem to think there are only two things in the world, science and religion. I didn't leave religion because of contradictions with science, I left religion because it did nothing for me, and I didn't care for contradictions within its own practice. Science is my career, not my belief system nor my personality. To claim it is anything else is to turn science into a religion, which it is not.

Edit: By the way, I'm not atheist, I'm more agnostic. My experience is that a lot of people, including scientists, turn to religion or beliefs in deities, mostly as a coping strategy when they are trying to deal with loss or grief and situations that science doesn't address and can't help them with. For example, a coworker's wife was just recently diagnosed with a relapse of cancer, metastasized to two locations (at least...they may find more when they open her up). They are taking her to another state to get the best surgeons and oncologists they can get to treat her. Nonetheless, we know that even when everything is done right, there are still risks of surgery that are beyond the control of the surgeons and anesthesiologists, and there is no guarantee that the chemotherapy will work. I don't think it's unreasonable or makes my colleague less of a scientist that he sent an email to those of us who work most closely with him asking us to keep his wife in our thoughts and prayers. I won't be the one doing the praying, I don't personally think there's any point to it, but if it comforts them, I would certainly not criticize someone else for doing it nor them for desiring it.

 

[arunma]

You came to the right forums. I'd guess that a majority of the contributors here at PF are atheists/agnostics.

You're probably right. I wonder: does this make me the forum's token evangelical Christian physicist?

 

[Senex01]

If the incidence of atheism or secularism is actually higher in European countries, then what do you think this is due to?

At a tentative guess: people came to the US and set up churches in a "secular" society - one that was neutral as regards religion. They set up the churches and then went to them without any problems or crisis.

At the time the first settlers were arriving the North America, there were wars of religion, persecutions and terror in Europe on religious grounds. Then up to a hundred years ago there was still a big very tense debate over the role of the official church in each state, in education and marriage law and other things. The Germans referred to it as the Kulturkampf, but it happened almost everywhere. Eventually people just got sick of it all. Then you have communism, which knocked religion hard in most Eastern European countries.

The USA has never had a "state religion", so it never had the desire to break free from it.

 

[NeoDevin]

A true atheist doesn't care about religion, they just dismiss it as nonsense. They don't sit around thinking about it. The "atheist" websites where people can go and talk about it, I think is ridiculous, except in the case of the OP where it wouldn't be to talk about being atheist but perhaps as a means of talking about people in your life that go crazy when you tell them you don't buy into religion anymore.

A true atheist doesn't care about god, but they can and do care about religion, since so many people make their personal/political choices based on religion, so it does have a very real impact on atheists' lives. Most "atheist" websites, are devoted to the http://www.talkorigins.org/" . They also serve (as you point out) for people to have a place to vent about religions impacts on their own life (I don't really understand how you say they're "ridiculous", and then go on to say "but they serve this one purpose").

Another goal of the "new atheist" movement is to let others who reject religion know that they're not alone, and that they don't have to be afraid to speak up. For many people (I'm thinking JWs, Mormons, and similar), while they do go out and proselytize frequently, they are actively discouraged from socializing outside their religion. This means they have no friends, family, or in many cases (home-schooled children) even casual aquaintances outside of their religion. Outspoken atheists give people like this another option, let them know that just because some narrow minded people close to them may shut them out for their belief, they won't spend their entire life alone because of it. Cutting people off from outside contact and then instilling the fear of being rejected by everyone you know is one method that cults use to retain members. (Some) Religions use the same basic tactic, just not quite as strict. Atheist websites serve to counter this effort.


To the OP: As others have pointed out, you are already an atheist (assuming that you disbelieve gods). This is not an active choice you make, rather it's a conclusion that you come to based on your experiences/the evidence you've been exposed to. As no one here knows your parents or how they may react, it's hard to give specific advice for you. If you're confident that your parents will be ok with it, just mention to them that you don't believe in their religion anymore, and you'd rather not go to church with them anymore. If you're confident that you're parents will make your life (proverbial) hell for it, then it might be best to go along with them while you live with them, and then tell them once you've moved out and they can't make your life so difficult. If you're in college/university, look around on campus and see if there is a secular/atheist student group where you could meet other people who share your feelings about religion. Feel free to send me a pm if you want some help finding one one your campus/in your city.

On the other hand, not everyone feels strongly enough about it to become such an outspoken atheist, so you may be more comfortable just keeping it to yourself. A great thing about being atheist is that you have no obligations to behave in a certain way. You can be as loud or quiet about it as you want, and there's no magical punishment after you die :D.

 

[WaveJumper]

At a tentative guess: people came to the US and set up churches in a "secular" society - one that was neutral as regards religion. They set up the churches and then went to them without any problems or crisis.

At the time the first settlers were arriving the North America, there were wars of religion, persecutions and terror in Europe on religious grounds. Then up to a hundred years ago there was still a big very tense debate over the role of the official church in each state, in education and marriage law and other things. The Germans referred to it as the Kulturkampf, but it happened almost everywhere. Eventually people just got sick of it all. Then you have communism, which knocked religion hard in most Eastern European countries.

The USA has never had a "state religion", so it never had the desire to break free from it.

Do most Americans believe the bible to be an allegory? Because the difference between a literal read and an allegory is as strong as the difference between a chair and an electrical chair.

Why does Al-Quaeda label the US 'infidels', when most are believers(supposing allah and god are one and the same entity)? Is simply typing "Al Quaeda" going to attract attention to this thread from employees at the CIA?

 

[Astronuc]

At a tentative guess: people came to the US and set up churches in a "secular" society - one that was neutral as regards religion. They set up the churches and then went to them without any problems or crisis.

At the time the first settlers were arriving the North America, there were wars of religion, persecutions and terror in Europe on religious grounds. Then up to a hundred years ago there was still a big very tense debate over the role of the official church in each state, in education and marriage law and other things. The Germans referred to it as the Kulturkampf, but it happened almost everywhere. Eventually people just got sick of it all. Then you have communism, which knocked religion hard in most Eastern European countries.

The USA has never had a "state religion", so it never had the desire to break free from it.

The immigrants from England and other nations came with a variety of religious backgrounds, and in some cases there was persecution in the US colonies. Most people came to the US for economic reasons, while a minority of groups came for religious reasons. One needs to look into the migration patterns from England (particularly from western England), and Scotland, Wales and Ireland, and other European nations.

I'll have to find it, but one of my history books talks about the fact that heresy was a capital crime, punishable by death, in one (Virginia, IIRC) or more of the American colonies.

 

[junglebeast]

Do most Americans believe the bible to be an allegory? Because the difference between a literal read and an allegory is as strong as the difference between a chair and an electrical chair.

It seems that all the religious people I've met have selectively chosen to interpret some parts as literal and other parts not (individually)...but they all take a good deal of it literally.

 

[DaveC426913]

A true atheist doesn't care about religion, they just dismiss it as nonsense...

A true atheist doesn't care about god, but they can and do care about religion...

Wait, my master hasn't taught me the progressive levels of atheism. Who do I have to beat in barehanded combat to become a true atheist?

 

[Evo]

Wait, my master hasn't taught me the progressive levels of atheism. Who do I have to beat in barehanded combat to become a true atheist?

A true atheist doesn't care about god, but they can and do care about religion,

I absolutely disagree with this. An atheist plain and simple just does not believe in a diety, they do NOT care about religion. If you want to debate religion, then you have an interest in religion, that has NOTHING to do with believing in supernatural dieties. Please do not confuse the two.

 

[junglebeast]

I have never considered myself an atheist, I simply do not adhere to the dogma of any known religion. Recent discussions with a fellow PFer has made me aware that I may qualify as an atheist.

Probably, but there are 3 classifications you might fall into:

If you believe there are no god(s), then you are atheist. Obviously, atheism is not a religion.

If you do not believe in any particular religion, but you think the idea of god(s) is not unreasonable, then you're agnostic (eg, unsure). This also is not a religion.

If you do not believe in human-like gods, but you do believe in an omniscient, omnipresent force in the universe, and that humans were created to fill some special role, then you are "spiritual."

 

[NeoDevin]

I absolutely disagree with this. An atheist plain and simple just does not believe in a diety, they do NOT care about religion. If you want to debate religion, then you have an interest in religion, that has NOTHING to do with believing in supernatural dieties. Please do not confuse the two.

Which part do you disagree with? That atheists don't care about (what they consider to be) imaginary beings? Or that they can and do (I suppose I should have said "often do") care about religion? Even in the OP here, he said that he's developing an aversion to religions in general, so there is at least some level of "caring" there. Do you mean to say that they do not necessarily care about religion? If so, then I agree. Or do you mean to say that every atheist absolutely does not care about religion?

Also please point out where I have confused wanting to debate religion with believing in supernatural deities (or dieties, for those who want to magically lose weight, hehe)?

 

[Evo]

Wait, my master hasn't taught me the progressive levels of atheism. Who do I have to beat in barehanded combat to become a true atheist?

A true atheist doesn't care about god, but they can and do care about religion,

I absolutely disagree with this, unless it's as meaningless as saying an evangelical christian cares about debating Hindus. An atheist plain and simple just does not believe in a diety. If you want to debate religion, that has NOTHING to do with not believing in supernatural dieties. Please do not confuse the two.

 

[lisab]

I absolutely disagree with this. An atheist plain and simple just does not believe in a diety, they do NOT care about religion. If you want to debate religion, then you have an interest in religion, that has NOTHING to do with believing in supernatural dieties. Please do not confuse the two.

That's exactly right. It's hard for religious people to comprehend the absence of religion.

 

[junglebeast]

Which part do you disagree with? ... Do you mean to say that they do not necessarily care about religion? If so, then I agree.

That is clearly what Evo meant. And if you agree, then it is in blatant contradiction to your previous post, in which you stated that a person who does not care about other religions is not really an atheist. Perhaps you are overcoming a language barrier, but that is what you said.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

So you can respect other theist's point of view, rest assured that atheism is not respected.

If you say you are an atheist in some public place, or at work even, then you will likely be subjected to prejudice. Where as all religions in this country are pretty much respected. Atheism is not. Even gays managed to get more respect. Why can't atheists?

Perhaps it depends on where you are but where I live gay people aren't allowed to get married, they are occasionally beaten up or harassed, and quite often are made fun of and derided to the point that "homo" and "fag" are terms used to insult people. Where I come from atheists go through none of this. In the areas I have heard of where atheists may have similar things happen to them gay people are often treated far far worse. Would you mind letting me know where this curious place you live is that gay people are such respected members of the community when compared to atheists?

I think that a lot of the way people feel atheists are treated is not very real. Perhaps I am wrong though. Has anyone here been beaten half or near to death for being an atheist? Maybe known someone who has? Read a few news stories about such incidents? I don't doubt that it may have happened, I just doubt that it is very common at all. I don't remember anyone in school making fun of atheists and they'll make fun of you for anything in grade school and high school. I can't say I have heard many people accusing others of being atheists. I can't say I have heard anything worse than "he is lost/confused" when religious people refer to atheists. The only non-theists I have heard anyone complain about are the vocal in your face ones. I'm sure we can all respect that though since most of us have certainly found ourselves annoyed by the vocal in your face theists right?

Perhaps my lack of experience here comes from never having felt the need to step forward and announce my beliefs to the world. Never feeling that I really needed to let my parents or anyone else know just what I thought of their ideas and beliefs. I was never 'hurt' or pushed around or made to subjugate myself to any religion and so never felt the necessity to lash out. I really don't get it.

Do most Americans believe the bible to be an allegory? Because the difference between a literal read and an allegory is as strong as the difference between a chair and an electrical chair.

Why does Al-Quaeda label the US 'infidels', when most are believers(supposing allah and god are one and the same entity)? Is simply typing "Al Quaeda" going to attract attention to this thread from employees at the CIA?

While the place I live is relatively liberal in comparison to other places in the US most of the christians I have met are more or less christians in name. They follow their religion because that is what they know and grew up with and if you asked them what they thought of the bible they would probably say its mostly just a collection of stories to teach morals. Most of the people I have met think that those who interpret the bible literally are nuts. They pretty much believe in god and see little difference between religions other than tradition and adhere to their own because of tradition rather than any belief that it is more 'right' than another.

And the likelihood that this thread will get the notice of the CIA or any other agency for the mere mention of Al Qaeda is virtually non-existent.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

If you do not believe in any particular religion, but you think the idea of god(s) is not unreasonable, then you're agnostic (eg, unsure). This also is not a religion.

That should be "is not knowable".

 

[DaveC426913]

A true atheist doesn't care about god, but they can and do care about religion,

I absolutely disagree with this, unless it's as meaningless as saying an evangelical christian cares about debating Hindus. An atheist plain and simple just does not believe in a diety. If you want to debate religion, that has NOTHING to do with not believing in supernatural dieties. Please do not confuse the two.

Hang on. The rest of the quote is:

since so many people make their personal/political choices based on religion, so it does have a very real impact on atheists' lives.

Atheists care about lots of things, such as stock markets, hunger and other peoples' religions.

I believe NeoDevin is simply saying that it is not a principle of atheism to dismiss the reality of other people.

There are many ways to "care" about religion that do not involve keeping it as part of ones religious philosophy.

 

[SticksandStones]

I became an atheist when I started school at a Lutheran school.

In grade 1 we'd read a chapter of the Bible, and the teacher would tell us it meant X.
In grade 2 we'd read a chapter of the Bible, and the teacher would tell us it meant Y.
In grade 3 we'd read a chapter of the Bible, and the teacher would tell us it meant Z.

Around that time I stopped believing in it all together since they couldn't keep consistency in one school let alone in an entire religion. Well, that and when I was going through confirmation and the pastor showed a true hatred for homosexuals.

"Judge not less thee be judged" indeed...

EDIT: Actually, atheist is a bad label. It's not that I don't believe in a God so much as I don't really care? I can't possibly know so why concern myself with that when there are so much more important things.

 

[NeoDevin]

I absolutely disagree with this, unless it's as meaningless as saying an evangelical christian cares about debating Hindus. An atheist plain and simple just does not believe in a diety. If you want to debate religion, that has NOTHING to do with not believing in supernatural dieties. Please do not confuse the two.

Repeating yourself doesn't make you right, just stubborn.

A Christian would care about Hinduism if there were Hindus trying to get laws passed and policy made on the basis of Hinduism.

And as DaveC426913 pointed out, you took my quote out of context.

 

[NeoDevin]

Hang on. The rest of the quote is:

Atheists care about lots of things, such as stock markets, hunger and other peoples' religions.

I believe NeoDevin is simply saying that it is not a principle of atheism to dismiss the reality of other people.

There are many ways to "care" about religion that do not involve keeping it as part of ones religious philosophy.

Thank you.

 

[DaveC426913]

It's not that I don't believe in a God so much as I don't really care? I can't possibly know so why concern myself with that when there are so much more important things.

Even I can't accept that. It is an evasion of the question.

If you believe there is a God, it can hardly be unimportant.

I conclude that your argument degrades to you not believing, but not having the courage of your convictions.

 

[DaveC426913]

Thank you.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Evo is not using a trivial definition of "caring"; she means "deeply caring" or "adhering to". I think that was implicit.

But you sort of twisted her meaning by splitting hairs - using a more general definition and then disagreeing with that.

 

[NeoDevin]

Just to clarify terminology:

Theist: Believes in a god of some sort.
Atheist: Does not believe in any gods.

Gnostic: Believes the question of "Is there is a god?" has a definitive answer, and we can know it.
Agnostic: Believes either that there is no definitive answer to the question "Is there a god?" OR that we can't ever determine the answer.

It is entirely possible to disbelieve in god, and also believe that we can never prove a definitive answer (atheist agnostic).

It's also possible to believe in god, but to freely admit that there is no proof, and you're taking it on faith (theist agnostic).

Others believe that there is a god, and they can prove it (theist gnostic).

Others believe that there is no god, and they can prove it (atheist agnostic).

More specifically, agnostic does not mean "Is undecided if there is a god".

 

[NeoDevin]

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Evo is not using a trivial definition of "caring"; she means "deeply caring" or "adhering to". I think that was implicit.

But you sort of twisted her meaning by splitting hairs - using a more general definition and then disagreeing with that.

If so, then I misinterpreted her. When I read her post, I assumed the more general definition of "being concerned with/about". If he's right about your meaning Evo, then I apologize, and we're arguing over nothing.

 

[Moonbear]

EDIT: Actually, atheist is a bad label. It's not that I don't believe in a God so much as I don't really care? I can't possibly know so why concern myself with that when there are so much more important things.

Yes, atheist is a bad label for that. Not knowing and therefore not really caring (or giving it much importance) is generally agnostic. People mix up the terms all the time.

There's another option that hasn't really been included yet (unless I missed a post somewhere), and that is those who do believe in a deity, but not any religion. My grandfather was like that. He strongly believed there was a god, but just as strongly felt that if there was a god, he was everywhere, and there was no need to go to special places to worship in special ways...he felt all that was just man-made stories and rituals.

 

[B. Elliott]

I didn't plan to participate in this thread simply due to it being religious in nature, but after reading DaveC426913's post, it sums up my opinion very clearly.

My suggestion is that, when you talk to your parents, be sure to make it clear that you are not challenging their beliefs or rejecting them. You are making a personal decision for yourself only.

And when they try to convince you otherwise, you can be completely passive to their objections, no matter how angry or coercive they get. "I understand your objections, and I understand that you see errrors in my path, but it is a path I must follow." Dont, under any circumstances, engage in an argument. You do not need to defend your position.

The whole point of making this decision is that it is your decision. It is perfectly all right for your parents to disagree with you. It does not weaken you or force you to concede.

It's only a label. I still don't clearly know if I'm atheist or agnostic. All it is is drawing lines in the sand. Some people need to have clearly defined lines when it comes to religion. Others seem to enjoy playing with ideas and occasionally shifting their lines around. For me, I see no need to draw any lines as religion has yet to have any impact on my life, and I have yet to see any need to incorporate it.

You don't have to defend your opinion on the matter whatsoever. The same goes for your parents or anyone else as again, they've made their decision. The only thing that I would recommend saying, if it comes down to it, is that they should just respect your decision. IMO, you should not be worried about a confrontation one bit.

 

[waht]

Has anyone here been beaten half or near to death for being an atheist? Maybe known someone who has? Read a few news stories about such incidents? I don't doubt that it may have happened, I just doubt that it is very common at all. I don't remember anyone in school making fun of atheists and they'll make fun of you for anything in grade school and high school. I can't say I have heard many people accusing others of being atheists. I can't say I have heard anything worse than "he is lost/confused" when religious people refer to atheists. The only non-theists I have heard anyone complain about are the vocal in your face ones. I'm sure we can all respect that though since most of us have certainly found ourselves annoyed by the vocal in your face theists right?

Most theists in this country think atheism is immoral and will label you as such.

Here's an example of prejudice in school by school officials (very sad):

I'm sure there is more cases like this, and in general for teens trying to brake away from strong family religion and influence can be painful because of this kind of prejudice.

 

[lisab]

Yes, atheist is a bad label for that. Not knowing and therefore not really caring (or giving it much importance) is generally agnostic. People mix up the terms all the time.

There's another option that hasn't really been included yet (unless I missed a post somewhere), and that is those who do believe in a deity, but not any religion. My grandfather was like that. He strongly believed there was a god, but just as strongly felt that if there was a god, he was everywhere, and there was no need to go to special places to worship in special ways...he felt all that was just man-made stories and rituals.

I distill it down to this: can I believe in anything supernatural?

One of the things I do in my job is develop test methods. That means I must identify everything that might affect the test result. Then, I control for it.

I can't say that yes I have controlled everything that affects a test result, then turn around and say, well...of course supernatural things can happen.

So are there any PFers who have ever seen something supernatural? I haven't.

 

[junglebeast]

That should be "is not knowable".

No..."not knowable" is really a poor choice of words, because then all rational atheists would have to call themselves agnostics simply by recognizing the FACT that one cannot disprove the existence of a God.

The difference between atheists and agnostics is that atheists believe there is no god because there is no evidence for god (and all atheists I've ever met also agree that this belief is not fundamentally provable/knowable), whereas agnostics simply choose to defer belief either way, because they are unsure.

That is specifically why I chose the wording I did,

"If you do not believe in any particular religion, but you think the idea of god(s) is not unreasonable, then you're agnostic (eg, unsure). This also is not a religion."

If one considers it "not unreasonable" then they haven't ruled out the possibility as being plausible, which categorizes that class of people perfectly.

 

[rootX]

I absolutely disagree with this, unless it's as meaningless as saying an evangelical christian cares about debating Hindus. An atheist plain and simple just does not believe in a diety. If you want to debate religion, that has NOTHING to do with not believing in supernatural dieties. Please do not confuse the two.

I would also agree with that. It is not best to go and criticize other schools all the time that are different than what you think.

(Atheists picking on some dumb religious people - as I saw on the websites posted in one of the posts - and using those as arguments to prove all religions are bad is simply immature)

 

[ideasrule]

It's been interesting to read so many accounts of Christians becoming atheists. It's sad that many of you have had to confront your parents to do so; I can't help but think of how many people don't believe in God but are too afraid to announce their atheism.

I've had it lucky. I grew up in an atheist country in a non-religious family that never even mentioned religion. I didn't even know what religion was until I read about it on the Internet in grade 7! Of course regular visitors here know that I've developed an intense hatred towards it as I read more about it, but that's getting off-topic. I'm curious: did anybody here follow a similar path, learning about religion from the Internet and not from parents/friends?

To lisab: a lot of PF'ers have seen, or thought they saw, ghosts and UFO's. We've had a few discussions in GD and in S&D about lights in the sky, a sudden flash in a room, and what appeared to be the ghosts of Gettysburg soldiers. Perhaps those were nothing more than hallucinations, or perhaps they were due to yet-unexplained physics. I don't think you can say that all supernatural phenomena can be explained with existing knowledge.

 

[DaveC426913]

I grew up in an atheist country in a non-religious family that never even mentioned religion. I didn't even know what religion was until I read about it on the Internet in grade 7!

Now that is a backstory I would never have thought possible. You must be rare indeed.

What country?

 

[lisab]

Now that is a backstory I would never have thought possible. You must be rare indeed.

What country?

Haha, that was my reaction too. But I bet lots of PFers who grew up in Eastern Europe had that experience.

 

[Sorry!]

I would also agree with that. It is not best to go and criticize other schools all the time that are different than what you think.

(Atheists picking on some dumb religious people - as I saw on the websites posted in one of the posts - and using those as arguments to prove all religions are bad is simply immature)

The mere fact that you can say that statement shows that Atheist CAN care about god/religion and stay atheist.

Theres definitely different levels of atheist. Read Richard Dawkins God Delusion he talks about it... I consider myself an atheist but I am definitely fascinated by the idea of God etc. Just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean I can't care (show compassion for the idea) or look into it...

Thats not being atheist that's being ignorant and arrogant.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

No..."not knowable" is really a poor choice of words, because then all rational atheists would have to call themselves agnostics simply by recognizing the FACT that one cannot disprove the existence of a God.

I'm sorry but it is the definition of the word. "A-" without "Gnostic/Gnosis" knowledge; ie, it is unknowable.

People who by their own definition of their beliefs should technically fall into the category of agnostic often refer to themselves as atheist because they do not want to be associated with anyone who may actually hold some level of belief in god.