What is the graviton? Please place your definitions

[sol2]

INteraction of Radiation With Matter

http://www.airynothing.com/high_energy_tutorial/detection/images/compton_scatter.gif

Like X-ray detectors, gamma-ray detectors depend on a photon's interaction with a medium. One new form of interaction with detector material which comes into play for gamma rays (at least those with energies larger than 30 MeV) is pair production (defined below). Pair production telescopes are just one type of gamma-ray detectors; these, along with a few others, are described below.

http://www.airynothing.com/high_energy_tutorial/detection/detection05.html

 

[Russell E. Rierson]

I suspect that mass/energy is the curvature of spacetime. General relativity relates the curvature of spacetime to the stress-energy tensor. And normally, the stress/energy tensor is derived from a mass/energy distribution of some sort. I'm not an expert in GR, but I can imagine that this is the same as saying mass/energy = curvature of spacetime, right?

The books say:

[Einstein Tensor] = [Stress Energy Tensor]

"Mass tells space how to curve and space tells mass how to move"

...

Two different things that are in direct communication.


Is space a form of energy? That is a big mystery...

 

[Mike2]

The books say:

[Einstein Tensor] = [Stress Energy Tensor]

"Mass tells space how to curve and space tells mass how to move"

Wouldn't that be more precisely, "mass/energy tells space how to curve..."?

 

[pelastration]

Hi Sol,

as you know my ideas about the graviton (generally looked as being a particle) are simple: A ghost idea that will never be found.
IMO there is just a basic membrane. That membrane - which is stretchable - acts as attractive and repulsive (from the side you look to it). That membrane can restructure locally in discrete zones called holons. These holons contain at least dual geometrical aspects. Various combinations can happen.
"Gravity" is one perceptive part (side) of the system. From the other side seen, it's replusion.

BTW the summer ANPA meeting in Cambridge was great. I shared a flat with some prof's from Stanford (Pierre Noyes, James Lindesay) and with Lou Kauffmann (Knot Theory). My theory was taken very serious. ;-)

 

[Mike2]

Hi Sol,

as you know my ideas about the graviton (generally looked as being a particle) are simple: A ghost idea that will never be found.
IMO there is just a basic membrane. That membrane - which is stretchable - acts as attractive and repulsive (from the side you look to it). That membrane can restructure locally in discrete zones called holons. These holons contain at least dual geometrical aspects. Various combinations can happen.
"Gravity" is one perceptive part (side) of the system. From the other side seen, it's replusion.

BTW the summer ANPA meeting in Cambridge was great. I shared a flat with some prof's from Stanford (Pierre Noyes, James Lindesay) and with Lou Kauffmann (Knot Theory). My theory was taken very serious. ;-)

Honestly, if you are not going to present the mathematical proof, then you should put your theories in the form of a question.

 

[sol2]

Hi Sol,

as you know my ideas about the graviton (generally looked as being a particle) are simple: A ghost idea that will never be found.
IMO there is just a basic membrane. That membrane - which is stretchable - acts as attractive and repulsive (from the side you look to it). That membrane can restructure locally in discrete zones called holons. These holons contain at least dual geometrical aspects. Various combinations can happen.
"Gravity" is one perceptive part (side) of the system. From the other side seen, it's replusion.

BTW the summer ANPA meeting in Cambridge was great. I shared a flat with some prof's from Stanford (Pierre Noyes, James Lindesay) and with Lou Kauffmann (Knot Theory). My theory was taken very serious. ;-)

Hi there,

I always like the way you presented these ideas and the ideas in relation to cymatics? You develope quite nicely as new concepts were presented you adapted very well. You are a good inventor to me.

http://www.harmonyera.com/images/jenny.gif
Dr. Hans Jenny (1904-1972). Swiss physician, artist, and natural scientist

In looking at the pelastrian view, the spacetime fabric, is very helpful in recognizing the photons travel in regards to the mass impression. Looking at bubble eversions, also helped me to comprehend what you were doing. Why geometrodynamics was looked at.

http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/MembraneCircle/circle02.gif

But it has to be much more interactive then this. You give examples of this in your approach. Our previous discussions also pointed to bubble analogies, that topologically made sense to me, that is if one see's the space encapsulated in a holographical view? M theory would have been encapsulated in this bubble?

Branes above the three, were such a example here, even though these are hidden dimensions, having the (graviton become the bulk in four brane attributes?), leaves us with a very dynamical universe. I like to think of the opening of the Planck epoch to the universe now, as a flower.

As in the quantum harmonic oscillator there is no real zero point, as we can interpret this as energy existing, regardless of what you sucked out of space? So this leaves room for expression from the least to the most in terms of the vibrational nature(what is energy?) that could exist in the cosmo.

Our universe now might be a expressive mode, with matter distinctions, and with weak field measures, but there is still a complex set of events happening in the cosmo that helps us to understand the dynamics you are playing with.

 

[Russell E. Rierson]

Wouldn't that be more precisely, "mass/energy tells space how to curve..."?

Yes, that was a quote of John Archibald Wheeler.


http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node60.html


QUOTE:

1. Space and space-time are not rigid arenas in which events take place. They have form and structure which are influenced by the matter and energy content of the universe.

2. Matter and energy tell space (and space-time) how to curve.


3. Space tells matter how to move. In particular small objects travel along the straightest possible lines in curved space (space-time). (Note the above descriptions of General Relativity are due to John Wheeler.)

 

[pelastration]

Honestly, if you are not going to present the mathematical proof, then you should put your theories in the form of a question.

Thanks Mike,

Is the basic math also OK to you? 1 = 1.

Since you start with a single unity (1) that can locally restructure on various spots in discrete sub-sets (i.e. Holon A: 0.1 = 0.06 + 0.04) the equation 1=1 stays always valid.
So you get 1= 9.9 + (0.06 + 0.04)
(0.06 + 0.04) is a holon (Holon A) which contains two joined parts of the membrane. One local part has value (or length) 0.06 and the other 0.04.

When we create a new holon B (0.07 + 0.03) on another spot of the brane we get:
1= 9.8 + (0.06 + 0.04) + (0.07 + 0.03)

Inside holon A a new micro holon A' can be created on the 0.06 part: Brane-part 0.06 = 0.05 + (0.007 + 0.003)
1= 9.8 + ((0.05 + (0.007 + 0.003)) + 0.04) + (0.07 + 0.03)

Is this OK to you?

 

[pelastration]

Looking at bubble eversions, also helped me to comprehend what you were doing. Why geometrodynamics was looked at.

Our previous discussions also pointed to bubble analogies, that topologically made sense to me, that is if one see's the space encapsulated in a holographical view? M theory would have been encapsulated in this bubble?

Branes above the three, were such a example here, even though these are hidden dimensions, having the (graviton become the bulk in four brane attributes?), leaves us with a very dynamical universe. I like to think of the opening of the Planck epoch to the universe now, as a flower.

As in the quantum harmonic oscillator there is no real zero point, as we can interpret this as energy existing, regardless of what you sucked out of space? So this leaves room for expression from the least to the most in terms of the vibrational nature(what is energy?) that could exist in the cosmo.

Yes Sol, it's like holographical building up on the brane. The bulk is then the totality of complex 'towers' of holons. So the bulk is imo not an area full of loose separate floating units.

An image as a flower, yes why not. ;-) There will be some geometrical restrictions which make only certain type of couplings possible. A sacred geometry is possible.

 

[Russell E. Rierson]

Space can be constructed of discrete units with Boolean truth values, 1 or 0


1010
0101
1010
0101


A network of discrete "bits". These bits would be continuously connected yet still be discrete indivisible units. Just like a magnet has both north and south poles but those poles cannot be separated into monopoles.



Interesting... Gravitons might simply be the transferring of quantum "states" of the fundamental space-time "bits" along the "checkerboard" surface of space.

For a graviton/space-time bit:

state X = 1

state Y = 0

or vice versa.

 

[pelastration]

A network of discrete "bits". These bits would be continuously connected yet still be discrete indivisible units. Just like a magnet has both north and south poles but those poles cannot be separated into monopoles.

In that case specific oscillations from non-local origin may change the value of a bit. Dynamics.

 

[Mike2]

QUOTE:

1. Space and space-time are not rigid arenas in which events take place. They have form and structure which are influenced by the matter and energy content of the universe.

So if space has "structure", then what is the entropy associated with that sturcture?

2. Matter and energy tell space (and space-time) how to curve.

Doesn't this mean curvature=energy?

 

[sol2]

It From Bit

One cannot restrict themselves to three brane world, but when moving to the bulk, and by adding time, see the locations very fluid in terms of topological movements?

Algebraic Topology - Sol Feb 23, 2004 04:51 pm
Posted by sol on June 16, 2003 at 07:40:58:

In quantum physics, there is a measurement known as the Planck Scale (10^-35 meters). This is, to make it short, the tiniest space which any object can fill before it becomes pure energy.

At this scale, something strange happens to the laws of physics. Instead of just disappearing into oblivion, objects at this scale become multidimensional strings which represent all the properties of the object...

http://www.hypography.com/topics/superstrings.cfm

For example diffeo structure in twisting, would have allowed a complete rotation as 720 degrees?

http://ccins.camosun.bc.ca/~jbritton/animcup.gif , priceless And thus began, the wholly topologist journey to find the holy cup

But wait. Where did http://65.107.211.206/graphics/tenniel/lookingglass/1.4.jpg when she entered mirror world? Who else do we call Alice? Can Alice, explain the photon?

Welcome to the mirror world, in which every particle in the known universe could have a counterpart. This cosmos would hold mirror planets, mirror stars, and even mirror life.

So began the jorney of the three wisemen. There names, were LQG, STrings and Twistor Theory. They all recogize something very important about photon interaction?

So in regards to this fantasy we look for http://wc0.worldcrossing.com/WebX?14@77.32x2cEurtXd.6@.1ddf4a5f/74 .

For those who dislike fantasy...how about a developing perspective on geometry? How so? Maybe surface measure in dynamcal triangulations would see very appealing to the cubist utilizing the monte carlo effect to expalin the nature of the quantum world. But this would be discrete and not smooth.

'It from bit symbolises the idea that every item of the physical world has at bottom - at a very deep bottom, in most instances - an immaterial source and explanation; that which we call reality arises in the last analysis from the posing of yes-no questions and the registering of equipment-evoked responses; in short, that things physical are information-theoretic in origin.'

How do such emergent worlds become reality? You can never start from nothing. All of a sudden the world changes, becuase we now use numerical relativity and a computerized world we look for, how such discriptions will allow us to explain this grand movement in the universe?

So we look at "qubits or bits" as some method of describing the world and we know in signals demonstrating the language of the cosmo has to be exact. So the science tells us that such interaction based on three roads has to be desrcibed in which way?

But there is something very spooky about all this talk that only now could we have entertained with credibiltiy that such geometry could have been leading to discovering teleportation? What! :surprise:

 

[Russell E. Rierson]

So if space has "structure", then what is the entropy associated with that sturcture?

Hawking Radiation-Entropy:

http://www.physics.hmc.edu/student_projects/astro62/hawking_radiation/radiation.html

Doesn't this mean curvature=energy?

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/physics-faq/part2/

Einstein argued that all energy has mass, and all mass acts
gravitationally. Does "gravitational energy" itself act as a source of
gravity?

 

[sol2]

IN all Fairness, Response to Cold Fusion

I thought I should put this posting here as it might become apparent why?

If such levels of graviton gathering should become extreme, then what would prevent such a process of, "early universe bubble production," of turning into new Suns"? Will such collapses, help generate new energy sources??

So before the universe came into existence, could such an action have preceded this one?

If we accept the universe as flat, current temperatures of the CMB, then what would the temperature reveal if we look backward to the creation of the universe? So what did this universe first look like if we bag/bubble it?

Since then I've noticed that rolling non-reproduction is a feature of "paradigm shifting" pseudoscience of all kinds.

Ouch!

You understand my fascination do you?

Are bubbles implored here in cold fusion?

The researchers believe the new evidence shows that "sonofusion" generates nuclear reactions by creating tiny bubbles that implode with tremendous force. Nuclear fusion reactors have historically required large, multibillion-dollar machines, but sonofusion devices might be built for a fraction of that cost.

"What we are doing, in effect, is producing nuclear emissions in a simple desktop apparatus," said Rusi Taleyarkhan, the principal investigator and a professor of nuclear engineering at Purdue University. "That really is the magnitude of the discovery – the ability to use simple mechanical force for the first time in history to initiate conditions comparable to the interior of stars."

https://engineering.purdue.edu/EAA/article.php?story=20040303102054266

Willy Moss of Livermore (925-422-7302, wmoss@llnl.gov) says "Although I believe that thermonuclear sonofusion [not to be confused with cold fusion] may not be impossible...I am still not convinced... I believe that additional tests need to be done and many should have been performed and discussed in the paper, for example...if neutrons are being generated, then how about moving the scintillator further away from the sample to see if the signal decreases, due to the decreasing solid angle of the detector?"
http://www.aip.org/enews/physnews/2004/split/675-3.html

But I am more concerned with the gravitational collapse, and for those better equiped, why would the gravitational influence be so important in strong in gravitational fields? Think Think think:)

Like I said, Olias did not miss it the first time(six of red spades)


Back to my "hole".

 

[RingoKid]

I would say a graviton is a string that vibrates in only one of our detectable dimensions plus time so it only registers as an effect, a string needs to vibrate in all 3 of our detectable dimensions plus time for it to have a detectable physical presence...

...but I don't really know enough about it

I do like bubbles though

 

[selfAdjoint]

The string graviton is the interactive mixture of right moving and left moving vibrations on a closed string (a loop).

 

[sol2]

It also helps to understand some of the archetecture that is going on, in the views being examine by string theorists.

http://www.physics.arizona.edu/physics/news/matters/summer00/images/keithgraph.jpg

http://www.sukidog.com/jpierre/strings/gravmove.gif

This mode is characteristic of a spin-2 massless graviton (the particle that mediates the force of gravity). This is one of the most attractive features of string theory. It naturally and inevitably includes gravity as one of the fundamental interactions.

http://www.sukidog.com/jpierre/strings/scatmov.gif

Hw do we http://wc0.worldcrossing.com/WebX?14@45.GhJDcn8cA5G.14@.1dde4729/6 what is happening here with closed strings

 

[sol2]

I see Haelfix has reached some satisfaction in his quest. He might like the bottum line here in terms of the archetecture they are using in string theory.

Part of the quest of the http://ccins.camosun.bc.ca/~jbritton/animcup.gif I think is having your coffee and eating your cake too

A Fickled Man this topologist(instantaneous actions) be...that in morphings, he decides(?)...he cannot choose to have the donut, without the coffee

Alas, he has the Elixer, movement at his grasp, and he realizes that having such power, he now must create the coffee round table, and give as amulets, shape to such donuts:)

The End:)

You might find more under the heading of the Holy Grail of Physics in Hypermind?

 

[sol2]

If gravitational field lines can extend into extra dimenisons, then what can a graviton do?

From a theoretical position, this idea of quantization of gravity waves, as a way to explain the quantum geometry, must also tell us something about the very event that takes places. If energy leaks into those extra dimenisons, then correlation between gravitational collpase would reveal comparative geometries from the failure, to its transformation.

If we had put a shell around this view, how would all the events encapsulated, respond. Pelastrian views here, as you look at bubble nucleation are very interesting, since we have encapsulated the science that has lead us to this "point".

So if you have photon intersection, what would this look like if instead of Glast perceptions, we go one step further? Any thoughts here.

Would we see any evdience of the photon intersection, since those dimensions are hidden? Our views of Young's experiment might have taken on new proportions?


Imagine that such brane worlds are hidden?

The question might be then as to why and how such a development of brane world could have ever departed from GR, yet included it, in the gravitons?

The question would be that if gravitons could go through branes and exist in the bulk, then how would we use these gravitons to describe the quantum geometry in quantum gravity? If we can scale gravitons in relation to energy released from the events, then using the quantized version of these gravitatons to describe movement in the cosmo would have to be very telling.

One thing that is clear is the use of photon interaction spoken to in Glast has run into limits in regards to TEV measures. This limit in glast is 2 to 20 TEV, but the graviton must be spoken too, at about 1? Any corrections here would be appreciated.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=259961&postcount=32

 

[sol2]

Calabi Yau Forms off the Brane

So in these hidden dimensions we have these Calabi Yau forms that would reveal a symmetrcial realizations.

Torso figures are brought back here for consideration. What would Klien bottle Back to back symbolize?

If photons enter this Calabi Yau, how would we identified each model or select the one that speaks to the recognzition of all forms that might emerge from the brane.

These forms could only be determined if one recognizes the gravition quantization as a means to reveal the dimenisonal aspect of the Calabi Yau?

Doesn't it look like theory is now turning around going back to the zero dimension of points?

I think it is drawing our attention to a point on the brane? How shall we develope our conceptualization on the nature of the brane?

Lets just add some clarity here in terms of supersymmetry.

http://superstringtheory.com/people/gifs/jgates.jpg

On the other hand, if you take something like light, you find it’s very different, so let’s go through some thought experiments. Let’s take two flashlights, aim the two beams of the flashlights at each other and turn them on. What happens? Well, the two beams pass right through each other, nothing at all happens. Now take two water hoses and do the same thing. Now of course you see that the water starts splattering. And although that scattering is mostly electrical, even if you could turn off the electrical charges, then you’d find that the Exclusion Principle would drive the scattering.

So our world’s composed of these two major pieces. And the thing that’s really weird about our world is, like I said, stuff like us seems mostly to be fermions. The other half - energy, light, gravity, what we physicists like to call gauge fields, are all bosons. So why does our universe have this strange dichotomy, where stuff cannot pass through each other, but light and energy can? In fact, wouldn’t the world be sort of more balanced, more symmetrical, or even supersymmetrical, if there were some forms of energy that would scatter each other just the way that stuff, matter, does, and if there were some forms of matter that could pass right through each other just the way energy does?

http://superstringtheory.com/people/jgates.html

 

[pelastration]

Allais effect

Sol,

maybe look into the Allais Effect.

The Allais effect describes the unexplained increase in speed of a moving pendulum during a solar eclipse. It was first observed in 1954 by Maurice Allais, a French economist who went on to win the Nobel prize for Economics.

Many scientists dispute whether such an effect can be consistenly observed. Others believe that if such an effect does exist it can be explained by
• the seismic disturbance caused by a large number of people moving to and from a place where an eclipse is visible
• denser air cooled by the moon's shadow exerting a different gravitational pull on the pendulum
• the cooling of the Earth's crust caused by the shadow of the eclipse

However, there is growing evidence that the Allais effect does exist and it is believed by some to represent the only gross anomaly outstanding in the current scheme of physical knowledge.

http://explanation-guide.info/meaning/Allais-effect.html

If the Allais Effect exists, it must fit in the picture.

d

 

[sol2]

Sol,

maybe look into the Allais Effect.

The Allais effect describes the unexplained increase in speed of a moving pendulum during a solar eclipse. It was first observed in 1954 by Maurice Allais, a French economist who went on to win the Nobel prize for Economics.

Many scientists dispute whether such an effect can be consistenly observed. Others believe that if such an effect does exist it can be explained by
• the seismic disturbance caused by a large number of people moving to and from a place where an eclipse is visible
• denser air cooled by the moon's shadow exerting a different gravitational pull on the pendulum
• the cooling of the Earth's crust caused by the shadow of the eclipse

However, there is growing evidence that the Allais effect does exist and it is believed by some to represent the only gross anomaly outstanding in the current scheme of physical knowledge.

http://explanation-guide.info/meaning/Allais-effect.html

If the Allais Effect exists, it must fit in the picture.

d

This is very interesting.

A couple of things came to mind and I would like to see if analogies might surface here that would better explain how this might appeal to a "skipping a heart beat."

• the cooling of the Earth's crust caused by the shadow of the eclipse

I mean from a perspective you would understand through rotation how the Earth warms to the sun, so you all of a sudden change this pattern. The cooling nature, would be apparent in the Earth's alteration taking place in it's strata?

I am thinking of the quantum harmonic oscillator where you would suspend the rhythmn for a brief moment?

Sort of like being suspended over a hole of anti-gravity for a "brief second?"

When the spacetime is flat, this is the apex of the pendulum. Binary rotating stars eventually close their distances,and when they do, how shall we interpret this oscillation that has come to a end? Mecuries daisey orbit paths, no longer swinging from one point to another?

If for one briefest of moment you suspend the direction of oscillation, how would one inject energy into the cosmic octave? This can be played out on many different levels?

The anomaly would amount too, an alteration/suspension in the pendulums path?

Does this make sense?

I would just like to add this link on the shell approach as it has become apparent how pelastrian approach here would topologically speak to the other layers, not only from a cosmological undertanding of events, but from the world of quantum gravity as well.

There needed to be this understanding of http://universe.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/lifecycles/cycles.jpg , so I saw how these shells would interact, on the principals of bubble nucleation. Strange what a concept can do in one's perceptions.

thanks D for considering a response here to help. I appreciate it.

 

[pelastration]

This is very interesting.

A couple of things came to mind and I would like to see if analogies might surface here that would better explain how this might appeal to a "skipping a heart beat."

• the cooling of the Earth's crust caused by the shadow of the eclipse

I mean from a perspective you would understand through rotation how the Earth warms to the sun, so you all of a sudden change this pattern. The cooling nature, would be apparent in the Earth's alteration taking place in it's strata?

I am thinking of the quantum harmonic oscillator where you would suspend the rhythmn for a brief moment?

Sort of like being suspended over a hole of anti-gravity for a "brief second?"

When the spacetime is flat, this is the apex of the pendulum. Binary rotating stars eventually close their distances,and when they do, how shall we interpret this oscillation that has come to a end? Mecuries daisey orbit paths, no longer swinging from one point to another?

If for one briefest of moment you suspend the direction of oscillation, how would one inject energy into the cosmic octave? This can be played out on many different levels?

The anomaly would amount too, an alteration/suspension in the pendulums path?

Does this make sense?

Sure this makes sense to me.
To me the solar system is a holon in which the sub-sets (planets) follow a specific number of rules. Gravitation rules (branes) are basic. Extreme positions of planets have effects not only on the pendulum but also on every particle that is concerned.

I would just like to add this link on the shell approach as it has become apparent how pelastrian approach here would topologically speak to the other layers, not only from a cosmological undertanding of events, but from the world of quantum gravity as well.

Very nice Sol. Thanks. Indeed you will need to draw that extra shell. The Mama cover. ;-)

There needed to be this understanding of http://universe.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/lifecycles/cycles.jpg , so I saw how these shells would interact, on the principals of bubble nucleation. Strange what a concept can do in one's perceptions.

Great image indeed. Overview of the dynamics and transformations.

About that image with torus spheres (1 to 5): the understanding of the topological boundaries is key. And I see you have that key. Indeed topological changes in (i.e.) 5 will also influence 4, etc.

 

[sol2]

When one can relate to the brane collisons that was presented to us, one can get this new sense of brane worlds in the new toy model I present here.

Think for a moment about what the developing thought might have shown us in these theoretical postions, to see that graviton production has gone beyong the brane of this new toy model. If you did not understand the vacuum, and the relationship of brane world, how would you ever percieve that the graviton is something much more then what is held to these branes?

I would also say that we could encapsulate Marcus's views very easy in relation to the calculations that are being presented. You just have to know how?