Dead birds and fish in Arkansas

  • Thread starter EnumaElish
  • Start date
In summary: Arkansas ones were in a group on the ground already and something was spilt on them, or they were eating something contaminated?In summary, a state veterinarian has reported that preliminary necropsy results show that the birds in Arkansas died of "multiple blunt trauma to their vital organs." While there is speculation that fireworks or lightning may have caused the birds to take flight and suffer from blunt trauma as a result, the cause is still unknown. Similar events have occurred in other parts of the world, including Sweden, where a truck driver claimed responsibility for the deaths of jackdaws. However, the cause of death for the birds in Arkansas remains a mystery and there is no evidence of poison or contamination
  • #1
EnumaElish
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'A state veterinarian tells NBC that preliminary necropsy results show that the birds died of "multiple blunt trauma to their vital organs." ' -- http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110103/ts_yblog_thelookout/massive-bird-fish-kills-in-arkansas-leave-many-scratching-heads

Would that be a hailstorm?

What about the fish, only a coincidence?
 
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  • #2
Poor things could have gotten caught in a strong system and battered with hail. Terrible.

The fish seem to be a coincidence and it's only one species, so they ruled out pollutants.
 
  • #3
Why were they flying at night in the first place? Black birds aren't night birds.
 
  • #4
lisab said:
Why were they flying at night in the first place? Black birds aren't night birds.

There was speculation that they were frightened by something, perhaps lightning, and then took flight.
 
  • #5
I heard it was fireworks, it was New Year's Eve.
 
  • #6
Evo said:
I heard it was fireworks, it was New Year's Eve.

That was my understanding as well, from the news stories I've read.
 
  • #7
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/another-large-bird-kill-reported-this-time-in-louisiana leads me to think that fireworks may not be the cause. Isn't "blunt trauma" what you'd expect if they were falling out of the sky? Granted, it's preliminary.
 
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  • #8
EnumaElish said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/another-large-bird-kill-reported-this-time-in-louisiana leads me to think that fireworks may not be the cause. Isn't "blunt trauma" what you'd expect if they were falling out of the sky? Granted, it's preliminary.
Fireworks still could have sent the first group flying, it was at night.
 
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  • #9
EnumaElish said:
Isn't "blunt trauma" what you'd expect if they were falling out of the sky? Granted, it's preliminary.
I was under the impression that the "blunt trauma" happened before they fell out of the sky. As-in, the shock-wave of the thunder-crack or firework explosion killed them.
 
  • #10
Seems to me that the media is greatly exaggerating (surprise). They make it seem like if it's the end of the world (some even explicitly said so), but the fact of the matter is that these things happen. Quite often too. Here is a list of the animal deaths during 2010: http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/mortality_events/ongoing.jsp

Funny thing, this same thing happened yesterday here in Sweden. But they found the cause for it rather quickly, a truck driver hit them. The Swedish media wasn't quite so quick to deliver that news though, wasn't sensationalistic enough I guess.

Bottom line, these things happen every now and then. My thoughts goes to the birds friends and relatives;)
 
  • #11
malm1987 said:
Funny thing, this same thing happened yesterday here in Sweden. But they found the cause for it rather quickly, a truck driver hit them. The Swedish media wasn't quite so quick to deliver that news though, wasn't sensationalistic enough I guess.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/05/mass-animals-deaths-worldwide-birds-sweden/

However, the cause of the jackdaws' deaths was disputed after a truck driver claimed he was responsible.

Police told the newspaper the majority of the jackdaws involved were not "physically damaged," which would contradicted the truck driver's account of events.
 
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  • #12
Greg Bernhardt said:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/05/mass-animals-deaths-worldwide-birds-sweden/

Yeah, I saw that too. Although there is one thing missing in that article; the statement from the truckdriver saying that he is certain that he drove over quite a few, and that the rest must have died of either shock or air-draft from the truck. Honestly, I think that it sounds like a quite plausible explanation=)
 
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  • #13
200,000 dead from a truck at once?
Surely more than one species of bird and one of fish, would be involved in these deaths if it was a general poisoning, or a fly or swim into a poisoned area. "Multiple blunt trauma" internally doesn't suggest a physical external accident unless something is breathed in that is full of chunks of something. But wouldn't that just go to the lungs? And there's always the fish. What causes multiple blunt trauma to the vital organs of ONE species of bird? And maybe it wasn't flying at the time -which the blackbird doesn't normally do overnight-but eating grain (it's a grain bird) which had been poisoned, sprayed, or GMO treated. Then that flock -how many numbers migrate usually together at once?- tries to fly from the place of injury together and the flying makes it worse, spreads it, and they collapse. What if some of what they ate was dumped in the river too?
 
  • #14
jsland said:
200,000 dead from a truck at once?
No, 70-100.

"Multiple blunt trauma" internally doesn't suggest a physical external accident unless something is breathed in that is full of chunks of something. But wouldn't that just go to the lungs?
Blunt trauma to internal organs doesn't mean that the trauma happened from within, it was external trauma that damaged the internal organs.

And maybe it wasn't flying at the time -which the blackbird doesn't normally do overnight-but eating grain (it's a grain bird) which had been poisoned, sprayed, or GMO treated. Then that flock -how many numbers migrate usually together at once?- tries to fly from the place of injury together and the flying makes it worse, spreads it, and they collapse.
There is no report of poison. Other species of birds would have been affected. The birds (in the case of the event in Arkansas) fell from the sky.

What if some of what they ate was dumped in the river too?
Then it would have affected other fish, not just one species.
 
  • #15
jsland said:
200,000 dead from a truck at once?
Surely more than one species of bird and one of fish, would be involved in these deaths if it was a general poisoning, or a fly or swim into a poisoned area. "Multiple blunt trauma" internally doesn't suggest a physical external accident unless something is breathed in that is full of chunks of something. But wouldn't that just go to the lungs? And there's always the fish. What causes multiple blunt trauma to the vital organs of ONE species of bird? And maybe it wasn't flying at the time -which the blackbird doesn't normally do overnight-but eating grain (it's a grain bird) which had been poisoned, sprayed, or GMO treated. Then that flock -how many numbers migrate usually together at once?- tries to fly from the place of injury together and the flying makes it worse, spreads it, and they collapse. What if some of what they ate was dumped in the river too?

I said that the birds in Sweden most likelly died because someone (that even admited to it) ran them over with a huge truck, and that was like 70 birds or something. I did not suggest that the truck was responsible for all the animal casualties around the world. And if you bothered to look things up (hint: USGS works fine for that purpose), then you would see that mass deaths among birds, fish and other species alike are a very common thing.

But hey, what do the people monitoring this stuff for a living know? Nah, it's probably better to trust the national/international media circus. Last year there was an abnormal numbers of earthquakes, and this year there's something equally abnormal regarding animal deaths. Now, perhaps it would be wise to think this over one more time; was there really so many earthquakes last year (no, not according to statistics). The same goes for this over-hyped mass death of animals. These things happen all the time, but now everybody is keen on supporting evidence of this happening in "an alarming rate" and thus we tend to notice it more often now then we did before...
 
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  • #16
Hi I'm Sue and I'm new in here :) nice to know ya!
sorry for my english, I'm Italian so it's not so perfect :).
that's an interesting topic :), the fact is happened around 11:10 p.m (I'm reading on a website) so I think the fireworks aren't. Where I live there are tress and a lot of birds species and on 31 the fireworks can make tremble the houses but I've never seen a thing like this. I found out this new article about dead birds and fish, I'm not a Physician so I don't know what could be but I think that an electromagnetic manipulation could be more reasonable of fireworks. what I ask to myself about it is..."why in Italy nobody talk about it? and Y the news aint really talking about it? " I didn't hear the sweden fact either.
 
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  • #17
Evo said:
No, 70-100.

jsland:Yes, that's why I put exclamations. Why draw a parallel between the truck incident and the 200,000 birds?

Evo said:
Blunt trauma to internal organs doesn't mean that the trauma happened from within, it was external trauma that damaged the internal organs.

jsland:Then they would have reported that: external blows which didn't damage the outer flesh but only the internal organs. All 200,000 of them?

Evo said:
There is no report of poison. Other species of birds would have been affected. The birds (in the case of the event in Arkansas) fell from the sky.

jsland: That's my point. The only way poison would have affected one species is if it entered the blackbirds, who are grain feeders, from some 'tampered' grain that only they were eating.

Evo said:
Then it would have affected other fish, not just one species.
jsland: And once again, that's my point. Then what is the 'accidental' cause?
 
  • #18
jsland said:
jsland:Yes, that's why I put exclamations. Why draw a parallel between the truck incident and the 200,000 birds?
There are no 200,000 birds. I suggest you read the article again.
 
  • #20
I meant u know in these years we're having a change...the sun is more near to the Earth and we'll have a Conjunction of all planets and I think we can have more electromagnetic of normal...
 
  • #21
dancer said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Kentucky-Louisiana-dead-fish-wash-ashore.html

Here it explains everything better...I think it's an eletromagnetic thing
According to the article, the massive Arkansas bird death could be the results of fireworks.

Scientists now say that the fireworks appeared to have frightened the birds into such a frenzy that they crashed into homes, cars and each other. Some may have flown straight into the ground.

'The blackbirds were flying at rooftop level instead of treetop level' to avoid explosions above, said Karen Rowe, an ornithologist with the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission.

'Blackbirds have poor eyesight and they started colliding with things.'
But Ms Rowe stopped short of declaring the mystery solved, saying labs planned to test bird carcasses for toxins or disease.
 
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  • #22
dancer said:
Hi I'm Sue and I'm new in here :) ...but I think that an electromagnetic manipulation could be more reasonable of fireworks. what I ask to myself about it is..."why in Italy nobody talk about it? and Y the news aint really talking about it? " I didn't hear the sweden fact either.

Hi Sue

Please don't assume that coments on the net relates well to reality. The utterly insane talk about either HAARP or Earth's own geodynamo (if that is what you refer to?) causing this is so over the top that you can't even see the ground from there. As far as I know, Blackbirds are not all that dependant on Earth's magnetosphere in order to navigate correctly. Or well, they are to the same extents as most birds are, but if it was caused by magnetospheric fluxes (or the spooky, impending reversal the nutcases are so found of), then why haven't more birds fallen out of the sky? If you can answer why just Blackbirds were affected in Arkansa, then I'll consider magnetspheric influence to be at least a possibility (but it's not=)
 
  • #23
Evo said:
According to the article, the massive Arkansas bird death could be the results of fireworks.

yes but they can't explain the fish death or the birds dead in kentucky and louisiana instead an elettromagnetic thing can explain everything 'cos the animals can to feel what we can't feel
 
  • #24
jsland said:
jsland:Yes, that's why I put exclamations. Why draw a parallel between the truck incident and the 200,000 birds?



jsland:Then they would have reported that: external blows which didn't damage the outer flesh but only the internal organs. All 200,000 of them?



jsland: That's my point. The only way poison would have affected one species is if it entered the blackbirds, who are grain feeders, from some 'tampered' grain that only they were eating.


jsland: And once again, that's my point. Then what is the 'accidental' cause?

Ok, that answered my first question, you're the latter. No one has drawn any type of parallel between the truck incident in Sweden and the other animal deaths, just you.
 
  • #25
malm1987 said:
Hi Sue

Please don't assume that coments on the net relates well to reality. The utterly insane talk about either HAARP or Earth's own geodynamo (if that is what you refer to?) causing this is so over the top that you can't even see the ground from there. As far as I know, Blackbirds are not all that dependant on Earth's magnetosphere in order to navigate correctly. Or well, they are to the same extents as most birds are, but if it was caused by magnetospheric fluxes (or the spooky, impending reversal the nutcases are so found of), then why haven't more birds fallen out of the sky? If you can answer why just Blackbirds were affected in Arkansa, then I'll consider magnetspheric influence to be at least a possibility (but it's not=)

wait I saw an article was talking about ducks and another birds species I'll find it out and I'll post
 
  • #26
dancer said:
yes but they can't explain the fish death or the birds dead in kentucky and louisiana instead an elettromagnetic thing can explain everything 'cos the animals can to feel what we can't feel
They are guessing that unusually cold water could have caused at least one of the fish die offs. Rather than speculating on the improbable, we should wait for the toxicology tests to be done. :smile:
 
  • #27
dancer said:
yes but they can't explain the fish death or the birds dead in kentucky and louisiana instead an elettromagnetic thing can explain everything 'cos the animals can to feel what we can't feel

dancer, if you have some references to back up this 'electromagnetic thing' you keep alluding to, please point us to them. Otherwise, it is utter nonsense and nonscience and will result in an infraction if you keep trying to put it forth.
 
  • #28
dancer said:
yes but they can't explain the fish death or the birds dead in kentucky and louisiana instead an elettromagnetic thing can explain everything 'cos the animals can to feel what we can't feel

Again, why only these animals and not others? You do know that there are species that is much more dependant on geomagnetic orientation than Blackbirds do you? Why haven't they fallen from the sky?

These events of mass deaths are common, but the media coverage of these things is more or less new. Before this hype, people didn't care much about a couple of dead birds in a field. But media blows it all out of proportion as allways.
 
  • #29
dancer said:
wait I saw an article was talking about ducks and another birds species I'll find it out and I'll post

You do that, and please remember that ATS doesn't count as a source in a scientific discussion;-)
 
  • #30
malm1987 said:
These events of mass deaths are common, but the media coverage of these things is more or less new. Before this hype, people didn't care much about a couple of dead birds in a field. But media blows it all out of proportion as allways.
Whether or not this is a rare or weird event, I still find it interesting to know plausible explanations.

Then again, the more I think about it, the more I realize even the "facts" might be wrong.

I've been implicitly assuming
1] it was a whole flock, or least a large portion of a flock
2] they actually dropped out the air, dead
3] they all fell at once and in a small area

It is alternately possible that a giant flock was flying and 5% of that flock died individually over a short time. That makes the possible explanations more more mundane.
 
  • #31
DaveC426913 said:
Whether or not this is a rare or weird event, I still find it interesting to know plausible explanations.

Then again, the more I think about it, the more I realize even the "facts" might be wrong.

I've been implicitly assuming
1] it was a whole flock, or least a large portion of a flock
2] they actually dropped out the air, dead
3] they all fell at once and in a small area

It is alternately possible that a giant flock was flying and 5% of that flock died individually over a short time. That makes the possible explanations more more mundane.

Absolutelly, and so do I. But judging by USGS and their statistics it would appear as if quite a few of these events never get a proper explanation.

I was looking around and found this link, from USGS, that at least give some perspective of this whole situation: http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/mortality_events/ongoing.jsp
 
  • #32
in this website says about my theory and u can read "Not only have blackbirds been "falling out of the sky," but many species of birds,as well as reported cases of bat deaths in Arizona."
You can read how the Goethe university study revealed "Scientists at Goethe-Universitat in Frankfurt, Germany, have discovered that a bird can see the Earth's magnetic fields through photoreceptor cells in the bird's right eye. The Goethe-Universitat study revealed that if birds could not see the magnetic field when migrating, they lost their "bearings" and could hurt themselves or even die."

Nasa :" NASA reported in 2008 that there was a "massive breach" in the Earth's magnetic field, detected by THEMIS spacecraft . Solar wind can flow through this breach, causing enormous geomagnetic storms. It is very possible that such a geomagnetic storm is responsible for the current deaths of thousands of birds across the planet."
 
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  • #33
This is somewhat off-topic, but, maybe not. One of the posts said that birds have a magnetic right eye. This reminded me this article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704723104576061990776738036.html

To quote: "Aristotle thought the tuna hugged the right shore because they saw better with their right eye. (They do steer to the right, but their left eyes are just fine)." I wonder if the tuna, even all fish, have a magnetic right-eye; and whether this has anything to do with the fish deaths in AK.

OTOH, the counterargument to the earth-magnetism theory could be, "why only one species (of fish, or bird)"?
 
  • #34
dancer said:
in this website says about my theory and u can read "Not only have blackbirds been "falling out of the sky," but many species of birds,as well as reported cases of bat deaths in Arizona."
Please do not link to sites that muddle the truth and cause misinformation to be spread. the bats have what is called "white nose syndrome", it is a fungus that is killing them, so not related.

http://www.fws.gov/northeast/pdf/white-nosefaqs.pdf

You can read how the Goethe university study revealed "Scientists at Goethe-Universitat in Frankfurt, Germany, have discovered that a bird can see the Earth's magnetic fields through photoreceptor cells in the bird's right eye. The Goethe-Universitat study revealed that if birds could not see the magnetic field when migrating, they lost their "bearings" and could hurt themselves or even die."
This would not happen in an area of a few miles. if you are interested on how the Earth's magnetic field affects animals, this NOVA transcript is an easy read. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/magnetic/animals.html

Nasa :" NASA reported in 2008 that there was a "massive breach" in the Earth's magnetic field, detected by THEMIS spacecraft . Solar wind can flow through this breach, causing enormous geomagnetic storms. It is very possible that such a geomagnetic storm is responsible for the current deaths of thousands of birds across the planet."
No, it is not responsible. That refers to the South Atlantic Anomoly, it is also well known.

This wiki article will explain it, we have threads on it if you want to know more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Atlantic_Anomaly

I think you really want to learn, so please feel free to ask about the things you are reading, we will be glad to explain what is really happening.
 
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