Is IQ the Key Factor in Pursuing Pure Science?

[l-1j-cho]

It might sound as a lame excuse of an ordinary person who complains his inferiorty to those so-called 'genius', but personally, I think that the most important feature for pursuing pure science career is creativity, rather than IQ, unless one has learning diffculty matters or something.
I have taken few Iq tests and none of them were unreliable. I got 107 from one website and 146 from another. But I doubt my IQ is high enough to get into Mensa.
What do you think? is iq the most important factor for pursing pure scinece?
pure science includes mathematics and philosophy

 

[CharmedQuark]

I'm not going to argue the merits of an IQ test or whether or not it matters for pure science( It doesn't ).

I'm just going to say that if you took your IQ tests online, then they were definitely unreliable. All- and I mean all- online IQ tests are bogus.

 

[turbo]

Curiosity, inquisitiveness, a good work ethic and honesty will probably get you farther than IQ.

 

[Forestman]

I think that IQ is suggestive, but not absolute in determining a persons potential. Also one thing that I feel that people ignore is that IQ can be raised. At least 30% of intelligence is learned, and that is a lot to work with. I believe that true geniuses have both a high IQ and creativity. Several years ago I volunteered to work with the mentally handicapped. Anyway many of them had a strong desire to learn, so I started teaching them how to read and do basic math. I also brought them science books that had lots of pictures in them. Anyway, even these people showed signs that their IQ was increasing. Never the less me doing this really angered the people that worked there. They just wanted me to babysit them. As a result the staff stopped talking to me. I ended up having to leave though because I went off of zyprexa cold turkey, and as a result expericied the worst depression that I have ever expericied in my entire life. It was probably not a wise thing to do. For the first week I felt absolutely no emotions and very little motivation, and during the next two weeks I experienced the depression and was laid up in bed for two weeks. The reason I went off of it was because it had stopped working, and was causing me to feel a lot of anger for no reason. But if I had to do it over again, working with the mentally handicapped that is, I would teach them again. Every person has a right to be educated to their full potential.

 

[Char. Limit]

I'm left wondering at what exactly a "pure science" is. The only "pure" discipline I can think of is mathematics.

 

[rootX]

curiosity, inquisitiveness, a good work ethic and honesty will probably get you farther than iq.

+1.

I think a strong unwavering personality also plays a good role.

 

[Pythagorean]

IQ might help you to be socially acceptable so that you can actually get in a position or get funding to do work.

After that, it's a race to see who makes the most groundbreaking mistakes first (and then recognizes their implications).

 

[Lacy33]

IQ might help you to be socially acceptable so that you can actually get in a position or get funding to do work.

After that, it's a race to see who makes the most groundbreaking mistakes first (and then recognizes their implications).

This is very good. LOL.
I wanted to say who this made me think of right away, but don't think we are suppose to poke fun at people. Too bad
Good post.

 

[Chi Meson]

A new thread about "IQ" and mentioning "Mensa" means another 82 days has passed here on PF.

I've got a macro for this response:

Richard Feynman was famously "only" 127 on the IQ chart, yet he is credited for inventing hammers and figuring out how cheese works. Or was that Tesla? It was definitely Tesla who said "a little calculation says you owe me fifty Grand, Alva!"

Something like that. Jeez, I'm tired.

 

[HeLiXe]

Curiosity, inquisitiveness, a good work ethic and honesty will probably get you farther than IQ.

IQ might help you to be socially acceptable so that you can actually get in a position or get funding to do work.

After that, it's a race to see who makes the most groundbreaking mistakes first (and then recognizes their implications).

I think these are really good responses! I really agree with Turbo-1 and I'm sure persistence is a part of good work ethic. IQ scores are not always good at determining your reasoning abilities. Also I find many IQ tests are more geared towards measuring your memory capacity. I have a friend who only scored 114 on a psychologist conducted IQ test. He's a programmer and physics is like second nature to him.

 

[nismaratwork]

IQ is a load of horse manure; an ancient metric designed to bypass a poor approach to schooling. That it remains is a testament to our stunted growth and rigidity in psychology. Consider; you're an astonishing intellect, but you'd turn a Ray Osterrieth complex figure drawing into cole-slaw... there goes a chunk of your "IQ". Better to take the ROFC, or a number of other specific neurological tests, if you're really curious about your strengths and weaknesses intellectually in a very general sense.

Beyond that, imagine that you're facile with information, but utterly lacking in creativity; you might be fantastic in an IQ test, yet be functionally useless.

 

[lisab]

IQ is a load of horse manure; an ancient metric designed to bypass a poor approach to schooling. That it remains is a testament to our stunded growth and rigidity in psychology.

As I recall from a thread similar to this one a few years ago, the IQ test was intended to be used on people who are low functioning. It was never meant to gauge genius.

 

[nismaratwork]

As I recall from a thread similar to this one a few years ago, the IQ test was intended to be used on people who are low functioning. It was never meant to gauge genius.

It was that, and also meant in general to classify people into educational groups. Never in its design was it ever truly made (advertising aside) to be a measure of functional intelligence, never mind genius, or idiocy frankly. It's a product, older and less venerable than the joke we call SATs, MCATs, LSATs...etc...

 

[zomgwtf]

It was that, and also meant in general to classify people into educational groups. Never in its design was it ever truly made (advertising aside) to be a measure of functional intelligence, never mind genius, or idiocy frankly. It's a product, older and less venerable than the joke we call SATs, MCATs, LSATs...etc...

This isn't exactly true, it certainly does categorize people based on intelligence and it certainly is not a 'load of horse manure'.

127 on a modern IQ test would be pretty damn good. You would be considered of superior intelligence almost at the level of genius (130+).

You guys are acting like a psychologist makes measurements of your brain and gives you how 'intelligent' you are... this is false, it's not even close to what's being measured. What IS being measured is your abilities in various areas and then it is being compared to the rest of the population, with 100 being the average. Then it goes up by 15 IQ for each standard deviation. How is this not useful?

Are you going to try and tell me that by looking at standardized IQ scores administered by a Psychologist we can not lump the 'well above average' and the 'well below average' intelligence together? Give me a break.

 

[nismaratwork]

This isn't exactly true, it certainly does categorize people based on intelligence and it certainly is not a 'load of horse manure'.

127 on a modern IQ test would be pretty damn good. You would be considered of superior intelligence almost at the level of genius (130+).

You guys are acting like a psychologist makes measurements of your brain and gives you how 'intelligent' you are... this is false, it's not even close to what's being measured. What IS being measured is your abilities in various areas and then it is being compared to the rest of the population, with 100 being the average. Then it goes up by 15 IQ for each standard deviation. How is this not useful?

See ROCF, and why the 'standard' IQ tests are NOT part of a proper neuro workup for anything. It's not useful in many ways because it's culture-bound, depends on social norms that are not norms, and fails to account for a variety of learning disabilities and other issues. I thought it would be easy to generalize based on the example of the ROCF, and geometric elements of IQ tests. I suppose in theory if its "for entertainment purposes only" an IQ test is a lovely thing, and they do tend to be consistent. That you can point to any given number and conclude genius however is laughable. You'll find people well into the 130's who are nothing special, and people just around 127 who are far more intelligent and capable.

Are you going to try and tell me that by looking at standardized IQ scores administered by a Psychologist we can not lump the 'well above average' and the 'well below average' intelligence together? Give me a break.

Sure, you can draw incredibly broad swaths that are true for a percentage of the population, or you can actually rely on modern testing also administered by a psychologist or psychiatrist and get meaningful results. It depends on whether you're trying to impress someone who doesn't know any better, shore up one's ego, or kowtowing to a school or other institution still enamored of something so pitifully old and decrepit.

If someone is exceptional in any sense, there are far better tests than the various iterations of IQ testing which more precisely map skills such as paired-word association as subsets of language, rather than the broad strokes. Of course, it could also be argued that administering this generally useless test puts money in a number of pockets.

 

[HeLiXe]

It's a product, older and less venerable than the joke we call SATs, MCATs, LSATs...etc...

el oh el

 

[nismaratwork]

el oh el

Oh, come on... you know they're jokes! For god's sake, pre-med students do well on the MCATs, and the LSATs... *groan*...

The SATs seem to be in some downward spiral of becoming easier and easier, and I didn't think that was possible.

Hell, even most AP tests of that type are an absolute joke, except insofar as they are a huge industry, and a political flog.

 

[HeLiXe]

The SATs seem to be in some downward spiral of becoming easier and easier, and I didn't think that was possible.

I'm not trying to steer the conversation off topic here...but I think they are becoming easier due to claims of bias...which I think is an even greater bias lol If something is not fair due to a bias, making it easier is insulting to those who are claiming there is a bias. When I took it I was really sick, I didn't even complete the test and got a good score.

For god's sake, pre-med students do well on the MCATs, and the LSATs... *groan*...

lolol I'm not going there with you Nismar :p

 

[nismaratwork]

I'm not trying to steer the conversation off topic here...but I think they are becoming easier due to claims of bias...which I think is an even greater bias lol If something is not fair due to a bias, making it easier is insulting to those who are claiming there is a bias. When I took it I was really sick, I didn't even complete the test and got a good score.

Well, on the one hand you're smart so there's really no way of telling that it's the test's fault, but on the other hand...

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Stupid miserable low-brow tests... and people like you should have the chance to really get a sense of your abilities, not simply hit the ceiling along with a bunch of numbskulls.

 

[nismaratwork]

I'm not trying to steer the conversation off topic here...but I think they are becoming easier due to claims of bias...which I think is an even greater bias lol If something is not fair due to a bias, making it easier is insulting to those who are claiming there is a bias. When I took it I was really sick, I didn't even complete the test and got a good score.

lolol I'm not going there with you Nismar :p

Oh relax, doctors are just fine, pre-med students are not; I'm not clear how "pre-med" is even valid... just attend a good school and nail the MCATS, then your education begins, and it's only once your butt hits internship that you REALLY get to learning.

 

[turbo]

As I recall from a thread similar to this one a few years ago, the IQ test was intended to be used on people who are low functioning. It was never meant to gauge genius.

Perhaps. I was a child in the early Cold War days, and my classmates and I were tested over and over again after Sputnik came around. My parents were quite poor, but somehow they managed to consolidate birthday and Christmas presents in order to get me a cheap telescope one year and a cheap microscope the next. Someone (teachers at my school, I suspect) was prompting them, because they weren't getting mailings from Edmunds, etc.

 

[HeLiXe]

That facepalm thing is really cool :)

Stupid miserable low-brow tests... and people like you should have the chance to really get a sense of your abilities, not simply hit the ceiling along with a bunch of numbskulls.

Well I'm not all that lol ... I'm probably closer to the numbskull arena :D but the friend I mentioned earlier is a real genius. He's from another country, but they started him with physics at 11 and sent him to specialized schools with some other geniuses after. They (some government organization) were really baffled with his low IQ score, but I'm happy they didn't let that deter them from funding his education.

 

[nismaratwork]

Perhaps. I was a child in the early Cold War days, and my classmates and I were tested over and over again after Sputnik came around. My parents were quite poor, but somehow they managed to consolidate birthday and Christmas presents in order to get me a cheap telescope one year and a cheap microscope the next. Someone (teachers at my school, I suspect) was prompting them, because they weren't getting mailings from Edmunds, etc.

Hmmm, good times... sheesh.

I got tested for a bloody 4th grade admission... absurd... I'm just lucky I was able to grossly overcompemsate in some areas for those 2 where I inevitably fail. Even then, in what must be a fit of irony, it was 127 (I hesitate to mention because that number arose here), and I can assure you that it isn't a testament to my intelligence or to the test.

A monkey with a hangover could sail past an IQ test, and you still wouldn't really know how bright it was or not. (Note, I realize monkeys do go in for IQ tests... its hyperbole)

 

[nismaratwork]

That facepalm thing is really cool :)



Well I'm not all that lol ... I'm probably closer to the numbskull arena :D but the friend I mentioned earlier is a real genius. He's from another country, but they started him with physics at 11 and sent him to specialized schools with some other geniuses after. They (some government organization) were really baffled with his low IQ score, but I'm happy they didn't let that deter them from funding his education.

That's good news, and of course is just another issue with the culture-bound nature of the test, and its general inability to distinguish lack of aptitutde with language/culture/LD issues. You are no numbskull by the way, although it's nicely humble to say to so.

 

[HeLiXe]

Perhaps. I was a child in the early Cold War days, and my classmates and I were tested over and over again after Sputnik came around.

Were you in a specialized class Turbo? Or were they just doing this to everyone in general?...if you don't mind me asking.

 

[HeLiXe]

and its general inability to distinguish lack of aptitutde with language/culture/LD issues.

Yes this is something I was discussing with my psychology prof when we were covering intelligence. In addition to LD I would like to add those with exceptional intelligence. What may seem like a perfect : :: : (<---forgot the word for this now lol) to many would be incoherent to someone with exceptional intelligence, and they would get the question wrong based on their reasoning.
-----------------------
Remembered the word now...analogy. Sheesh *goes to bed*

 

[turbo]

Were you in a specialized class Turbo? Or were they just doing this to everyone in general?...if you don't mind me asking.

I was in a small elementary school. There were two grades in every class-room. I was as good as gold during my odd-numbered grades because I was learning some new stuff during both classes. Even-numbered grades were a problem because I was bored to tears. My second-grade teacher sent home all kinds of admonishments and warnings. My fourth-grade teacher made me grade all the homework and quizzes (so sure to endear me with my class-mates), and my sixth-grade teacher made me read books from her personal library and submit book reports on them. BTW, I learned to hate Somerset Maugham back then and I have NO desire to revisit his work.

 

[HeLiXe]

This is really very fascinating