So You Want To Be A Physicist Discussion

[ZapperZ]

This is a reminder (since someone asked me about it again recently) that the full essay can be found at the link below.

So You Want To Be A Physicist

I'm hoping to add a new chapter some time soon.

Zz.

 

[chazza74]

I'm not sure if this is a suitable topic for this thread, or if it should have been in a separate thread.

1. You can't use one example and make wholesale deduction of our educational system. Just because you could offer an insight into something a professional in one field couldn't come up with says nothing about (i) the knowledge of that person (ii) your own knowledge (iii) the educational process in that particular field (iv) the educational process in general. That is just extrapolating WAAAAY too much based on ONE data point!

2. Advanced in knowledge is made EVERY SINGLE DAY! These are made predominantly by scientists trained in the educational system from the last 20-40 years. Unless you are claiming that the current system is different than it was back then, then I would say that the system has, indeed, produced scientists able to solve many of the problems in science, and continue to produce very good work!

3. Teaching kids to think is a bad thing? Since when? In fact, I would say that the most IMPORTANT aspect of an educational system is to train the skill to think! I would even say that rote memorization and dumb repetition dulls one's ability to think. Being able to think things through is THE most important skill that one can have.

Zz.

1 - No wholesale deduction but a culmination of many experiences of which the one here is only a small part of.

2 - Advancement in knowledge being made every day is not quantifiable here, and, as it is a culmination of the work of many individuals, neither is the proportion of that advancement which is due to lateral and different thinkers compared to that which is achieved by those using standard methods.

3 - At no point was it ever stated that teaching young people how to think was a bad thing or that it was unimportant. It is the methods of thinking that are in question and have been for some time. Edward De Bono, for instance, has wrote extensively on the subject.

Apart from the wrong conclusions, and the unnecessary capitals, it was still a well worded reply.

 

[NeptuniumBOMB]

it would be just AMAZING if you could make a sequel to this talking about what people can expect while working in physics jobs from particle research to industrial work.

 

[ZapperZ]

I did a quick count earlier on the number of experimentalist-specific, theorist-specific, and either-field job advertisements in a couple of issues of Physics Today. I've now included two more issues of Physics Today, so the statistics now covers from April to July 2012.

Here is the latest job distribution:

1. Number of jobs looking only for experimentalist = 34
2. Number of jobs looking only for theorist = 9
3. Number of jobs looking for either or both = 22

So the ratio of experimentalists-specific job opening to the theorists-specific job openings is almost 4:1.

The job openings that I've lumped as "both" typically involves upper-level management types, or temporary, non-tenured teaching positions.

As another reminder, the So You Want To Be A Physicist essay can be found at the link in this sentence.

Zz.

 

[ThinkToday]

I did a quick count earlier on the number of experimentalist-specific, theorist-specific, and either-field job advertisements in a couple of issues of Physics Today. I've now included two more issues of Physics Today, so the statistics now covers from April to July 2012.

Here is the latest job distribution:

1. Number of jobs looking only for experimentalist = 34
2. Number of jobs looking only for theorist = 9
3. Number of jobs looking for either or both = 22

So the ratio of experimentalists-specific job opening to the theorists-specific job openings is almost 4:1.

The job openings that I've lumped as "both" typically involves upper-level management types, or temporary, non-tenured teaching positions.

As another reminder, the So You Want To Be A Physicist essay can be found at the link in this sentence.

Zz.

Add up the number of physics graduates each year and compare to the available slots in Physics Today, and it looks like fast food staff will be over-qualified for the time being.

On the serious side, perhaps you would consider starting a moderator locked or moderated thread like this one that gives the myriad of physics specialties and subspecialties that includes a brief description of their work, links to their professional societies, links to recruiters known to specialize in that area, etc. This may help answer a lot of peoples questions about a line of work (what is it and where they work), degree programs, minimum recommended degree, and employment prospects. i.e. geared towards informative with little to no opinion.

 

[ZapperZ]

Add up the number of physics graduates each year and compare to the available slots in Physics Today, and it looks like fast food staff will be over-qualified for the time being.

That is an over-simplification. The number of job openings advertized in the magazine is WAY smaller than that advertized online at the AIP site. So using that to somehow indicate the number of jobs is extremely misleading.

Furthermore, this does not reflect world-wide job openings. The IoP have their own job advertisements section, and industries often send recruits to campuses without having to advertize.

So no. While I'm using it to do a quick head count to get an idea on the differences in the number of job openings between experimentalists and theorists, I am not using this to make any absolute reflection on the total number of jobs. There's only so much one can draw out of such statistics before it becomes ridiculous.

Zz.

 

[ThinkToday]

That is an over-simplification. The number of job openings advertized in the magazine is WAY smaller than that advertized online at the AIP site. So using that to somehow indicate the number of jobs is extremely misleading.

Furthermore, this does not reflect world-wide job openings. The IoP have their own job advertisements section, and industries often send recruits to campuses without having to advertize.

So no. While I'm using it to do a quick head count to get an idea on the differences in the number of job openings between experimentalists and theorists, I am not using this to make any absolute reflection on the total number of jobs. There's only so much one can draw out of such statistics before it becomes ridiculous.

Zz.

I know That's why I started the second part with "On the serious side..."

 

[McLaren Rulez]

A quick question for ZapperZ or any others here. How do/did you choose a grad school?

Do you go by the school's ranking in your field of interest or do you look for professors in that school who publish a lot or is it something else? That is, what would be the general criteria to choose a grad school?

Thank you!

 

[Dr Transport]

A quick question for ZapperZ or any others here. How do/did you choose a grad school?

Do you go by the school's ranking in your field of interest or do you look for professors in that school who publish a lot or is it something else? That is, what would be the general criteria to choose a grad school?

Thank you!

When I went back to get my PhD, I looked for schools that were doing things I was interested in. At the time, I was considering working in Plasma physics, but I was also interested in Optics and materials. I ultimately ended up at Alabama Huntsville because they had some expertise in both. I changed advisors and ended up taking a degree in solid state physics specializing in optical properties of semiconductors.

The best advice I can give is to look for a school that has strengths in what you want but is also broad enough for you to change research thrusts without changing universities if your interests change.

 

[Schrodu]

I first came across this essay many years ago in high school, and I'm now in a big-name grad school in the US (at Parts X, XI of the essay). I've been coming back to the essay every couple of years or so, and each time I've found some meaningful advice there. I just wanted to thank ZapperZ for writing and maintaining this, and I expect to come back to it for many more years

 

[ZapperZ]

I first came across this essay many years ago in high school, and I'm now in a big-name grad school in the US (at Parts X, XI of the essay). I've been coming back to the essay every couple of years or so, and each time I've found some meaningful advice there. I just wanted to thank ZapperZ for writing and maintaining this, and I expect to come back to it for many more years

You're very welcome. Glad it is of use to you.

And good luck with your grad school.

Zz.

 

[titaniumpen]

Thanks for the article! I'm still in secondary school but I'm already considering a career in physics (but of course a lot can change). My parents advice me against following the academic route after graduate school, since I'll have to do post-docs with very low salaries, and it's nearly impossible to get a permanent position. This article scared me even more:

http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz/scientist.html

The article was written in 1999 but judging from other forum posts the situation doesn't seem to be better nowadays.

I know money should not be the most important consideration when it comes to career choices, but it's still important! I want to earn enough to support my parents and not only myself after all they've invested in my education. If I follow the academic route it seems hard to do so. So, is it a bad idea to become a physicist in academia?

I considered being an engineer, but it just doesn't seem as exciting. It seems that engineers spend a lot of time doing things not directly science-related...

 

[ZapperZ]

Thanks for the article! I'm still in secondary school but I'm already considering a career in physics (but of course a lot can change). My parents advice me against following the academic route after graduate school, since I'll have to do post-docs with very low salaries, and it's nearly impossible to get a permanent position. This article scared me even more:

http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz/scientist.html

The article was written in 1999 but judging from other forum posts the situation doesn't seem to be better nowadays.

I know money should not be the most important consideration when it comes to career choices, but it's still important! I want to earn enough to support my parents and not only myself after all they've invested in my education. If I follow the academic route it seems hard to do so. So, is it a bad idea to become a physicist in academia?

I considered being an engineer, but it just doesn't seem as exciting. It seems that engineers spend a lot of time doing things not directly science-related...

Please browse or search through this forum. That Katz article has been discussed to death already, and it shouldn't be discussed in THIS thread.

Zz.

 

[ZapperZ]

If you missed it, the IoP has published a handy author's guide in helping a first-time authors to published papers in physics journals. It has many overlap with my own guide in Part XIII of http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=df5w5j9q_5gj6wmt essay.

I would think that with both of them, you should get a very good idea on how to proceed. Still, it doesn't replace doing this a few times to get the hang of it.

Zz.

 

[ZapperZ]

Not sure if everyone is aware of this already, but there's a series of very useful webinars produced by the APS.

http://www.aps.org/careers/guidance/webinars/archive.cfm

You need to register just one time to view the webinars. These are very useful because the topics of discussion cover a large range, from how to do well in the GRE Physics exam to networking at the APS meetings.

Don't miss it.

Zz.

 

[ZapperZ]

The AIP has released the latest statistics on First Year physics graduate students in the US.

http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/reports/1styeargrad.pdf

Zz.

 

[bigerst]

thanks 'tis amazin' and helpf'l :P

 

[camjohn]

^ZapperZ, why do you think that the percentage of first year grad students sudying applied physics was so low? Applied physics has always struck me as a such broad phrase; wouldn't many of the fields (condensed matter, particles and fields, optics, nuclear physics, biophysics etc) provide numerous instances in which it could be much more applied than theoretical?

 

[ZapperZ]

^ZapperZ, why do you think that the percentage of first year grad students sudying applied physics was so low? Applied physics has always struck me as a such broad phrase; wouldn't many of the fields (condensed matter, particles and fields, optics, nuclear physics, biophysics etc) provide numerous instances in which it could be much more applied than theoretical?

That last sentence doesn't make sense. "More applied than theoretical"? I don't know what that means. "Applied physics", such as condensed matter, etc. can have theoretical aspects. Phil Anderson and Bob Laughlin are theorists in condensed matter physics, and won Nobel Prizes!

So theoretical and applied are not mutually exclusive!

Zz.

 

[saltkraxen]

That last sentence doesn't make sense. "More applied than theoretical"? I don't know what that means. "Applied physics", such as condensed matter, etc. can have theoretical aspects. Phil Anderson and Bob Laughlin are theorists in condensed matter physics, and won Nobel Prizes!

So theoretical and applied are not mutually exclusive!

Zz.

Are the job prospect in for example theoretical condensed matter physics, better than the job prospects in say theoretical astrophysics, i.e. is it easier to get a job as a theorist in a more "applied area", compared to a theorist in a not so applicable area?

EDIT: Also, how is the job situation in say plasma physics? (I'm thinking nuclear fusion and stuff like that...)

 

[dimasalang]

YEah its my dream to be a physicist,, but it is not for me... i guess there are very few people in the world being given with exceptional intellect and understanding of the natural world..

 

[ZapperZ]

Another periodic reminder that the full So You Want To Be A Physicist essay can be found at the link.

Zz.

 

[stSagan]

Another periodic reminder that the full So You Want To Be A Physicist essay can be found at the link.

Zz.

mr Kaku had a go at is as well, but this is so much more insightfull !. It's a pain though to keep having to convert back to the european (mainland) system. So let's see, I've completed 'A-levels' again in order to enroll in 'undergraduate' physics, at 35. Hell yeah I want to become a physicist!

 

[OMGCarlos]

Whoa, this was a really awesome read! I read this over the span of 3 days and I have to say, I'm pretty inspired! Your emphasis on making connections with faculty/students was probably the best takeaway I got from this and is something I'll try and apply when I start next Spring.

 

[ZapperZ]

Whoa, this was a really awesome read! I read this over the span of 3 days and I have to say, I'm pretty inspired! Your emphasis on making connections with faculty/students was probably the best takeaway I got from this and is something I'll try and apply when I start next Spring.

Thank you.

3 days, eh? Didn't realize it requires that long of a read to have it all sink it.

I'm hoping to add a couple more items to it, and then go back and revamp some of the old ones. There are new stuff to add.

Zz.

 

[pcm]

Nice essay.Really an eyeopener.
Thanks ZapperZ.

 

[Intrastellar]

Thank you.

3 days, eh? Didn't realize it requires that long of a read to have it all sink it.

I'm hoping to add a couple more items to it, and then go back and revamp some of the old ones. There are new stuff to add.

Zz.

great to hear, looking forward to the new content
yes, it is pretty long, much effort that you are thanked for

 

[zacky_D]

Guys,
Physics totally fascinates me!
Sorry abt the long post,but i really need aome advice...
I really love thinking about Natural Phenomenon,building models and stuff ..!
But i really think i lack at math..i mean,most of the bio of great physicist mention ability to freely use mathematical functions and numbers,calculus algebra etc were like second language to them and stuff..and they all mention math as 'The language of science' and stuff...
I really want to know,Is it really possible to see the 'mathematical beauty' when we first study the subject??I mean like maht when i can think of it in terms of pictures,or some practical analogy i make up...i mean,i understand drevative mean slope,tracing out basic graphs,and usually do calculus from graphs as far as possible,unless it becomes tooooo complicated..
But is it possible to actually visualise or understand even the most complicated functions etc??Or is math just memorising and applying(in that case,i just won't get it :(..) i really want to understand math to and advanced level,if its going to help me go deeper into physics,and understanding...i like math for its sake itself..and want to know how to become Extremely comfortable with math! :(

 

[Regel]

Is it really possible to see the 'mathematical beauty' when we first study the subject??
...
i like math for its sake itself..and want to know how to become Extremely comfortable with math! :(

I'd say that study hard (under pedagogically excellent professors of theoretial physics) and you probably will some day begin to see the mathematical beauty of physical theories.

How to become extremely comfortable with math: learn it, use it. Some basic mathematics can often be visualized with few dimensional figures.

But as you continue to study mathematics (notice: mathematics not mathematical methods) the stuff becomes more abstract and it will not be possible to visualize it (at least in same sense than basic calculus for example). However, you will learn new ways to comprehend mathematical structures.

 

[Snow-Leopard]

It has often been said that a physics major sometime needs more mathematics than even a mathematics major. Mathematics is viewed as a ”tool” that physicists use in describing and analyzing physical phenomena. So one just never know what tools are needed for which job. This means that a physics major must have a wide ranging knowledge of different areas of mathematics, from differential equations, linear algebra, integral transforms, vector calculus, special functions, etc. These are the mathematics a physics major will encounter in courses in classical mechanics, electromagnetic fields, and quantum mechanics

Zz can you recommend some others books for Mathematics, I already done Mathematical Methods by Mary Boas.

 

[ZapperZ]

We are approaching 4 million posts on PF. So this is my contribution to that effort.

As a periodic reminder, the So You Want to Be A Physicist essay can be found at the link.

New chapter coming soon, hopefully.

Zz.

 

[Grosvenor2]

So you want to be a Physicist?

Thank you very much, I greatly appreciate your effort to write this essay!
I live in Italy and I'd like to study physics at university. Now I'm attending my 4th year (out of 5) at high school and I'm on my way to gather information about the subject. I could report you differences and analogies that I may find out between US and Italian system, if you think this would be useful!
Paolo

 

[ZapperZ]

Another update. I was informed that the link I gave in the last few posts might not work and required that you ask to SHARE the document before you can view it.

This link should work without that requirement:

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1KBovBeg_kl6nAk8fTBYQdHMo8o3o0IgunPE3R7_OEHM&pli=1

Please let me know if there's any more problems in reading the essay.

Zz.

 

[ZapperZ]

Hum... I just realized that this thread has had a "name change" to match the "becoming an engineer" thread. Not sure if I like it.

Zz.

 

[ZapperZ]

If you haven't seen it yet, the AIP has released its latest statistics on recent physics PhD's (2009 and 2010) "http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/reports/physdoctorates0910.pdf".

Considering that these graduating classes entered the job market at the height of the economic disaster, the satisfaction level of those who participated in the survey was optimistically high.

Zz.