What is the Difference Between a Theoretical Physicist and a Mathematical Physicist?

[Tom1992]

I would like to share with you my chosen courses for years 2 to 4. I've decided to specialize in both math and physics because I've gotten bored with studying only math:

2nd Year:
Calculus II
Linear Algebra II
Group Theory
Ring Theory
Ordinary Differential Equations
Real Analysis I
Thermal Physics
Oscillations and Waves
Introduction to Quantum Physics


3rd Year:
Partial Differential Equations
Complex Analysis I
Real Analysis II
Point-Set Topology
Differential Geometry I
Classical Mechanics
Electromagnetic Theory
Quantum Mechanics I
Nuclear and Particle Physics


4th Year:
Complex Analysis II
Differential Geometry II
Differential Topology
Algebraic Topology
Quantum Mechanics II
Relativity I
Relativity II
Introduction to String Theory
Introduction to Quantum Field Theory

has anyone taken a math/physics combination like this? many of these math courses I've already studied on my own, but these physics courses sure look like tons of fun!

 

[Bitter]

I would imagine it would be fairly tough to find a uni that would allow you to take all those courses in that amount of time.

 

[precondition]

Ambitious but realistic?

That is indeed an ambitious plan and I have nothing against your willingness and motivation to commit yourself to indulge in such courses but it does raise few questions...

1. Is it a realistic plan? Many of the courses you listed are quite advanced both in mathematics and physics and I wonder if you can handle such pressure. 9 courses in a year to me seems like not a good idea since I myself have experienced it and don't intend to do it again.

2. Quantity or Quality? Sure you can take as many papers as you like but I doubt if you will perform well in all those subjects. Important thing is, take only necessary papers and do well in them.

3. If I were you I would try drop as many unnecessary 'physics' papers as I can and keep math papers. Especially if you are willing to go into theoretical physics you will find your strong math background useful in later years.

4. I would take following courses:


2nd Year:
Calculus II
Linear Algebra II
Group Theory
Ring Theory
Ordinary Differential Equations
Real Analysis I
Thermal Physics
Introduction to Quantum Physics


3rd Year:
Partial Differential Equations
Complex Analysis I
Real Analysis II
Point-Set Topology
Differential Geometry I
Classical Mechanics
Electromagnetic Theory
Quantum Mechanics I



4th Year:
Complex Analysis II
Differential Geometry II
Differential Topology
Algebraic Topology
Quantum Mechanics II
Relativity I
Introduction to String Theory
Introduction to Quantum Field Theory



Out of curiosity which university do you attend?

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

what's exactly not good with 9 courses in a year?
he doesn't take 9 courses in one semester.
anyway which university offers: Introduction to String Theory
and Introduction to Quantum Field Theory
in bsc programme, arent those courses supposed to be taken in 2 or phd degree programmes?

 

[Tom1992]

what's exactly not good with 9 courses in a year?
he doesn't take 9 courses in one semester.
anyway which university offers: Introduction to String Theory
and Introduction to Quantum Field Theory
in bsc programme, arent those courses supposed to be taken in 2 or phd degree programmes?

supervised reading courses.

I think 9 courses per year is not crazy at all. I remember reading a post somewhere (in the how many hours per day do you study poll) where some guy took even more and studied 16 hours per day. besides, my courseload is not a heavy as it looks, because many of the math courses I have self-studied already.

 

[hrc969]

I think 9 courses per year is not crazy at all.

You are at a school that's on quarter system right? If so, then you are right, it's not crazy at all. Actually even if you are on semester it might not be crazy because you have studied some of that before making it a lot more manageable.

I remember reading a post somewhere (in the how many hours per day do you study poll) where some guy took even more and studied 16 hours per day.

]I could probably not take as many classes as I take if I was doing physics. I actually decided not to do math an physics because I was always took me much longer with physics than with math and I saw that there were just as many fun courses (I had to go for graduate courses though) I could take in the math department.

 

[complexPHILOSOPHY]

According to Tom and from what I have extrapolated from previous posts, he is 14 (as his name would suggest) and is currently self-teaching himself some very complex, high-level mathematics (if I remember correctly, he was working through Mumford's Toplogy) and desires to complete his PhD by 18 (is that correct Tom?).

So, with that in mind, continue with the advice. I figured it would be beneficial to let you know that as far as I know, he is not yet at a university and is a freshman in high school, unless I am completely lost, which might be the case.

 

[Tom1992]

According to Tom and from what I have extrapolated from previous posts, he is 14 (as his name would suggest) and is currently self-teaching himself some very complex, high-level mathematics (if I remember correctly, he was working through Mumford's Toplogy) and desires to complete his PhD by 18 (is that correct Tom?).

So, with that in mind, continue with the advice. I figured it would be beneficial to let you know that as far as I know, he is not yet at a university and is a freshman in high school, unless I am completely lost, which might be the case.

I'm taking by force the full-year calculus I, linear algebra I, physics I, and physics lab, and introduction to special relativity courses

 

[complexPHILOSOPHY]

I'm taking by force the full-year calculus I, linear algebra I, physics I, and physics lab, and introduction to special relativity courses

When you say 'I am taking by force' do you mean you are going to storm the university with books in-hand, overthrow the classrooms and demand instruction or do you mean you are being forced to take these classes at university? The former would provide me with an amazing visualization and a hell of a lot of laughter!

I am confused, are you still in high school or did you graduate and you are now preparing for university? How does a prodigy such as yourself, go about completing the high school cirriculum in such a quick period of time? I have always been curious about that.

 

[FUNKER]

what's exactly not good with 9 courses in a year?
he doesn't take 9 courses in one semester.
anyway which university offers: Introduction to String Theory
and Introduction to Quantum Field Theory
in bsc programme, arent those courses supposed to be taken in 2 or phd degree programmes?

The quality of your learning is decreased with the more papers you take. taking nine is a big workload. I find taking 8 a semester decreases my quality of learning by a noticable margin

 

[Tom1992]

When you say 'I am taking by force' do you mean you are going to storm the university with books in-hand, overthrow the classrooms and demand instruction or do you mean you are being forced to take these classes at university? The former would provide me with an amazing visualization and a hell of a lot of laughter!

I am confused, are you still in high school or did you graduate and you are now preparing for university? How does a prodigy such as yourself, go about completing the high school cirriculum in such a quick period of time? I have always been curious about that.

those are my first year university courses. it's only first year. many people at age 14 are well ahead of me. A phd student at age 14:

http://www.drexel.edu/univrel/drexelink/story.asp?ID=1594&vol=10&num=2

i've seen her picture--she's not bad looking. i wish i could meet her.

 

[complexPHILOSOPHY]

Well, my friend, enjoy skipping your teen years. I wish you luck, however, in all that you do!

 

[Tom1992]

so no one here has done graduate studies this thorough in both math and physics?

 

[FUNKER]

I have completed a BSc in math and physics , but not so many pure math papers

this is my one hundreth post ooooooo yea feel the love

 

[proton]

many people at age 14 are well ahead of me. A phd student at age 14:

Many people are ahead of you? Well there are many people who get their BS in physics by age 40 too.

 

[morphism]

What's the rush?

 

[Tom1992]

what rush? it's a 4-year programme.

 

[morphism]

But you claim you're 14.

 

[^_^physicist]

Discussing only the plan you have listed out, I would make the following cuts from the course load (thus giving you more time to concentrate on the more advanced subjects, and to allow you to take some electives from outside of the math and physics departments (which I would believe the university you attend most certainly has)). And note that I am only a student, and this is being done through my own personal biasis.

So Cut the following:

Calc II, linear algebra II (unless you feel it is absolutly necessary, because you will pick this up pretty fast when you need it), Quantum Field Theory or Superstrings (just pick one for now), Nuclear and Particle physics (unless you intend on focusing your research on it), and pick either Algebraic or Differential Topology, don't take both.

That should trim your program down to something that seems a little more reasonable...at least in my humble opinion.

Oh and move your differential geometery I course to your 2nd year, if you can.

 

[CPL.Luke]

hmm what about gen eds? unless your school doesn't require them for a student such as yourself.

I am also a bit curious as to how you completed high school so fast, were you homeschooled? or did your school just bump you up really fast?

 

[complexPHILOSOPHY]

My primary concern with allowing someone to compress the time it takes for them complete a high school eduation, is that they miss out on the social development and exposure to your peers. I also can't imagine he has mastered the subjects of geography, chemistry, english, biology, history, government, and whatever other subjects/electives they have.

Are you ready for university level philosophy, chemistry, biology, psychology, etc.? Granted, these subjects are generally very easy for most freshman and sophomores, I would contend that spending four years in high school really helps build a foundation to understand it, not to mention, I really do feel as though my brain matured drastically from 14-19 and I finally feel like I am actually ready for university.

I played sports in high school and other chilled out activities, something I hope he isn't missing. I also had the opportunity to have fun, goof off and grow-up.

Had I started university even just two years ago, I would have done terrible in comparison to how I am doing now, simply because I matured. Although, perhaps some people are naturally developed and matured and are better suited at a university.

Either way, I think it's awesome that you are that gifted, my friend. I always laughed at the prospect of seeing some 14 year old in one of my classes, there is no way I could take him serious, even if he could do some abstract mathematics.

I still can't imagine you'd have the life experiences and broad understanding to relate to anyone that is not 14, then again, you probably can't relate to a typical 14 year old either.

Either way, no disrespect, good luck homie!

 

[Stingray]

This thread reminds me of myself when I started college. I was also much younger than normal, wanted to double major in math and physics, and wrote down a long list of courses to take every quarter. That list didn't last very long. I realized that I didn't really like pure math and that my physics interests changed over time. Some courses can also be very difficult, and you might want a break at times, or perhaps some extra sleep and a bit of a social life.

I did end up taking many more elective courses than usual, including several graduate-level physics and astro courses. Some of these were excellent, and I'm very glad I took them. Others just confused me, and I never really learned the material properly. I would have been better served slowing down and understanding the standard courses more thoroughly. I ended up filling in the gaps in grad school.

On average, I tried to do too much at once. When you start off, you tend to try to stick everything possible into those 4 years. Looking back, most things could've waited. I'm not saying to follow a standard curriculum (and I doubt you'd listen anyway). Just be willing to adapt your plans over time. The main things you should plan for are upper-level courses that you really "have to" take. Put a couple of courses into this category, and make sure you'll meet the prerequisites by the time you want to take them. Also check that they aren't offered every other year. If you want to do research in a particular topic before the start of your senior year (which I highly recommend), make sure you'll have the appropriate courses for the field you want to work in by that time.

Of course, everyone is different. I don't know you. I don't know your preparation or intelligence. I also don't know your university, so it's hard to give generic advice.

 

[CPL.Luke]

yeah I agree complexphilosophy, but people do grow up faster than others, some of my friends here at uni still go home on weekends to have their mothers do their laundry.I personally left high school a year early and never had a prom or any of the stuff that comes with your senior year of high school, essentially I was failing out so I decided to get a GED and the go on to college instead of finishing my senior year and quite possibly my super senior year. By the time I left high school I had accomplished everything that I wanted to do in that portion of my life and I was ready to move on. I am sure that some people experience this at an even younger age.

Tom1992 I could believe that you are one of the few people who can finish their high school education early, however I have a hard time believing that you'll be able to relate to other people who are college aged and you may suffer because of that. I am guessing that you haven't yet enrolled in your college or that you haven't yet progressed very far in your education there.

I would like to give you a link to Simon's Rock college

http://www.simons-rock.edu/This is a path that I considered a while ago however I only heard about it after I had made up my mind on what I was going to do, and I decided I didn't have the transcript to get in anyway. However it may be well suited for you. It is a college that was founded on the principal that the final two years of high school merely serve as a buffer to ensure that studnets enter college when they are 18, and so was setup to provide college level work to gifted high schooler's who have completed at least their sophmore year of high school.

It is not a fancy private school that merely provides a high school education, it starts students out with courses that you would start taking your freshman year of college.

I remember when I checked it out it had a decent math/physics department and looked like a good school. It might help for you to be around kids who are closer to your age in order to still have some of those good ol' life experiences.

 

[Stingray]

Tom1992 I could believe that you are one of the few people who can finish their high school education early, however I have a hard time believing that you'll be able to relate to other people who are college aged and you may suffer because of that. I am guessing that you haven't yet enrolled in your college or that you haven't yet progressed very far in your education there.

I actually never went to high school at all. I didn't have any trouble relating to the regular college-aged students. I probably had more issues with people my own age at the time. This is a very personal thing, though. From what I understand, it was not that uncommon for students my age to attempt suicide or otherwise develop serious problems at the university I attended. They had therefore become very apprehensive about admitting them. I was a perfect fit though. I loved being there, would certainly do it again if given the chance.

 

[CPL.Luke]

how young were you though? the OP is 14. I think anybody above the age of 16 wouldn't have trouble relating to college kids provided they have the necesssary "maturity level" but I think that most people younger than that would have a very difficult time finding commonalities with people beyond the general interest topics such as politics/physics/ <insert subject here>.

 

[Stingray]

I was also 14.

 

[FUNKER]

I was also 14.

The bombshell we have all been waiting for!

 

[hrc969]

Tom1992, so are you dropping your "want to get a PHD by 18"? Just curious.
Also, are those just the math and physics classes you are taking for the year or are those all the classes you are taking. i.e., are you taking any other classes besides those?
__________________________________________________________
I don't know whether Tom1992 is at a school with quarter system. If he is then:
^_^physicist, there is nothing unreasonable about his schedule. Three classes a quarter is very typical. I know at least one grad student that has taken 5 graduate math classes in one quarter. I am taking 2 grad classes, 1 reading course (in a graduate level topic) and two advanced upper division classes.
Three is hardly unreasonable.

The quality of your learning is decreased with the more papers you take. taking nine is a big workload. I find taking 8 a semester decreases my quality of learning by a noticable margin

You have tried taking 8 classes in one semester? I'm just curious, what classes where those?
The most I have taken is six in a quarter, no learning decrease, as far as I can tell. However, there were only 3 math classes and two programming and a linguistics course. I haven't tried 6 math classes yet and I probably won't try it at all.

 

[complexPHILOSOPHY]

The distinction between quarter and semester based academic schedules, should probably be made aware. I love how I am 20 and just beginning college and these kids are all 14.

:) I like to take it slow!

 

[Tom1992]

Tom1992, so are you dropping your "want to get a PHD by 18"? Just curious.

yes, i'll take my time now. that's why I'm going to finish my undergrad in 4 years. but no electives, i only want to study math and physics.

 

[Manchot]

yes, i'll take my time now. that's why I'm going to finish my undergrad in 4 years. but no electives, i only want to study math and physics.

Honestly, I think that you should try and take at least one non-math, non-physics course every semester. If you don't, you might get bored or burned out.

 

[complexPHILOSOPHY]

I don't think you can take only mathematics and physics courses, even if you are a prodigy, however, I could be wrong. Regardless, I would definitely advise you to take at the very least, courses in: philosophy, psychology, biology, english and history, to give you a broad, fundamental understanding of the world.

Mathematics and physics are far too abstract for casual conversation, even at the university level and even though you might feel like you don't care for a social life right now, there will come a time when you might want some friends and not think about your work, so only knowing maths and physics won't help alleviate this problem. It is also important that you understand all of the other aspects of the world, even if they only exist as constructivist realities.

Although, if you are already knowledgeable in these fields, then disregard what I am discussing, my friend.

Stinger, you should give us your opinion, homie!

 

[Tom1992]

i strongly believe that all courses taken should be career-based. other things in life that's not so serious can be learned elsewhere. suppose i take a history course and later on during my research as a mathematical physicist i realize that i am lacking in algebraic topology. i will regret having wasted my time studying history when i should have taken a course in algebraic topology.

hence my choice:
2nd year:
Calculus II
Linear Algebra II
Group Theory
Ring Theory
Ordinary Differential Equations
Real Analysis I
Thermal Physics
Oscillations and Waves
Introduction to Quantum Physics

3rd year:
Partial Differential Equations
Complex Analysis I
Real Analysis II
Point-Set Topology
Differential Geometry I
Classical Mechanics
Electromagnetic Theory
Quantum Mechanics I
Nuclear and Particle Physics

4th year:
Complex Analysis II
Differential Geometry II
Differential Topology
Algebraic Topology
Quantum Mechanics II
Relativity I
Relativity II
Introduction to String Theory
Introduction to Quantum Field Theory

every single course will be relevant to whatever i want to research later on.

 

[bit188]

i strongly believed that all courses taken should be career-based. other things in life that's not so serious can be learned elsewhere. suppose i take a history course and later on during my research as a mathematical physicist i realize that i am lacking in algebraic topology. i will regret having wasted my time studying history when i should have taken a course in algebraic topology.

Indeed, I hold similar beliefs; I use college to get a job, and personal activities can be self-taught. That's why I'm only going to get a bachelor's degree when I'm old enough to go to school, and devote my non-work life to mathematics, physics, and the arts.

 

[mgiddy911]

i strongly believed that all courses taken should be career-based. other things in life that's not so serious can be learned elsewhere. suppose i take a history course and later on during my research as a mathematical physicist i realize that i am lacking in algebraic topology. i will regret having wasted my time studying history when i should have taken a course in algebraic topology.
every single course will be relevant to whatever i want to research later on.

Thats all good in theory, however I do not know of many universities that allow you to take just what you want to take and what you deem important to your career, more generally, you take what they require. I think most universities in the US have some form a liberal arts requirement of some sort. So you can tell them all you want that studying history will not help you in your career, but I do not think they will comply to your wants