Is there evidence for Christ's resurrection?

[Mr. Bill]

Hey there, I just want to know what eveidence we have of Christ's resurrection, or what proof we have of Christ not rising from the dead...

 

[BoulderHead]

Well, I'd argue that we don't need any 'proof' that he died. Death is the natural end of at least our physical bodies. If Jesus didn't die on the cross, then he would still be dead by this time anyway.
In summary, Jesus is dead. He is just as dead as you or I will eventually be.
Let us never forget this.

 

[Mr. Bill]

ya... maybe i should make my self more clear. I am doing this assignment in which I am against Christ's resurretion. So basically I am looking for arguments about the resurretion; if actually happened or whether it is a myth. Oh ya, proof/references of your statements would be nice as well. thanks.

 

[megashawn]

So basically I am looking for arguments about the resurretion; if actually happened or whether it is a myth.

Hmm. There are as many rumours about him not resurecting as there are in the bible that he did.

Sources of either side are equally unavailible.

So what you have here is quite simply, a myth.

No different then me asking Did Hercules really exist and was he truly 50% god?

I'm sure there are storys that go either way about Herc. Unfortunatly the evidence that makes something stand out from the rumour/lies does not exist.

So I can tell you what I've heard, but can offer you no better proof then you offer me when I say the christian God can't exist.

 

[Psyber freek]

www.carm.org/evidence.htm

This site has many links concerning christ and the resurrection.

 

[HazZy]

they use the bible as most of the proof, that's simply laughable.

i think the earliest non-christian mention of jesus was in tacitus' annales

[15.44] Such indeed were the precautions of human wisdom. The next thing was to seek means of propitiating the gods, and recourse was had to the Sibylline books, by the direction of which prayers were offered to Vulcanus, Ceres, and Proserpina. Juno, too, was entreated by the matrons, first, in the Capitol, then on the nearest part of the coast, whence water was procured to sprinkle the fane and image of the goddess. And there were sacred banquets and nightly vigils celebrated by married women. But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed.

EDIT: of course there is no proof of any kind that he rose from the dead .

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Mr. Bill
ya... maybe i should make my self more clear. I am doing this assignment in which I am against Christ's resurretion. So basically I am looking for arguments about the resurretion; if actually happened or whether it is a myth. Oh ya, proof/references of your statements would be nice as well. thanks.

Ummm...generally, magic tricks like this are considered myth until proven otherwise. You don't need proof AGAINST something like this, do you?

 

[megashawn]

they use the bible as most of the proof, that's simply laughable.

I was going to let this slide, but I got to see the excuse.

You, being a professed believer, say that using the bible as proof is laughable? Is that not blasphemy? To say that it is funny that a person uses the cornerstone of your belief system to prove something of your faith? Especially when the bible is supposed to be perfect, and the absolute truth.

I'm pretty sure any deviation would make you a member of a customized religion.

which most christians are anyhow.

 

[HazZy]

Originally posted by megashawn
I was going to let this slide, but I got to see the excuse.

You, being a professed believer, say that using the bible as proof is laughable? Is that not blasphemy? To say that it is funny that a person uses the cornerstone of your belief system to prove something of your faith? Especially when the bible is supposed to be perfect, and the absolute truth.

I'm pretty sure any deviation would make you a member of a customized religion.

which most christians are anyhow.

whoa, simmer down. i wasn't commenting on my beliefs. blasphemy would be me saying that the story of jesus' resurrection is laughable, i did not say that. using the bible as proof of the resurrection (to a non-believer, which I am assuming the starter of the thread is) is like using the iliad as proof of apollo. don't you see the irony in that?

 

[megashawn]

I see what your saying. I know from my perspective, I'd say that the bible cannot be thought of as 100% truth. I'd maybe give it a 10%, after all, its name really is "The Bible" right?

 

[kyle_soule]

Originally posted by megashawn
I see what your saying. I know from my perspective, I'd say that the bible cannot be thought of as 100% truth. I'd maybe give it a 10%, after all, its name really is "The Bible" right?

There are 773,692 words in The Bible, it's name is "The Bible" that only makes .000258% true

Anyhow, I agree with most everyone else. Nobody has ever died for 3 days and then came back to life, other than Jesus and a select few other lies...er...stories of people in the Bible. This should be proof enough? Why did you choose to take on such an unchallenging, and [IMO] worthless task, unfortunately (I'm sure you will come up with intelligent proofs) nobody that believes will believe your proofs.

SIDE NOTE: Mr. Bill, you have a cool avatar...I thought Cross-slash was the coolest thing...until I used Omnislash and hit for max damage

 

[ray b]

well some guys in france claim to have JC's bones
and also claim he had desendants by mary mags, some of whom are alive today

read the book "HOLY GRAIL, HOLY BLOOD"
for their story

I do find it interesting old JC never ever appeared before the people in mass or the roman or jewish leadership
only to a few followers brefly a few times
and stilll had the wounds on his body from the cross,see thomas and the wounds in the bible!

leading to the following questions
why couldnot the all powerfull god heal himself?,
why did he not appear before all the people in the city center [temple] or in the palace of pilot? or other public places
why only a few showings to the christian inner cult members?, and only do that a few times?for short peroids of time
why no real post cross teaching or instruction recorded by him?
if he was the allpowerfull god why does he say" I can't stay long with you"?

evidence points to a FAKE death and quickly needing to get out of town
and supports the tale he went to france with mary mags

 

[heusdens]

Originally posted by Mr. Bill
Hey there, I just want to know what eveidence we have of Christ's resurrection, or what proof we have of Christ not rising from the dead...

Nothing but tales and stories and myths. And part of that even contradicts one another...

It is ought to be considered an artefact of belief, and not a fact of knowledge, a fact as such.

 

[Singularity]

All of you are missing the point. You're thinking : I will believe when I see, when in fact you will SEE when you BELIEVE. There are countless people who can confess to this statement, people who thought just as you did once. Many believe, what if God doesn't exist? Well I say what if he does? You have to take both possibilities into account. I say again, Believe first, and then see. You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

 

[ahrkron]

Originally posted by Singularity Believe first, and then see. You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. [/B]

My position is that we as a species have much to loose.

Do you remember when you first learned about the "original sin", and how you deserved to be out of the garden of eden because of something done by others long before you were even a plan?

I do. It was a tough one to swallow, but I did for some time.

Why do I bring this up? becuase I think that teaching children to accept things on the basis of authority, even if it makes no sense to them, hinders their curiosity and their ability to explore, to search for structure.

Also, I would rather have people being good because of fascination for life and an understanding of an individual's role on society than because of love and fear of an immaterial entity.

 

[plus]

Originally posted by BoulderHead
Well, I'd argue that we don't need any 'proof' that he died. Death is the natural end of at least our physical bodies. If Jesus didn't die on the cross, then he would still be dead by this time anyway.
In summary, Jesus is dead. He is just as dead as you or I will eventually be.
Let us never forget this.

Most of the population of US/ Uk think jesus lives!

 

[ray b]

Originally posted by plus
Most of the population of US/ Uk think jesus lives!

so what??
most people are eazy too fool
and believe many silly and/or stupid things

most arabs believe in martyrdom and the muli-virgin rewards promisted them for blowing themselfs and others UP for their god

aztec's belived in killing POWs to insure the sunrize

and you allso support a fairytale with a man/god hero but again SO WHAT

the bible STORY is full of holes
like no bodys were removed from a cross
they were to rot in place by law

JC died way to quickly 3-4 days was the time it took to die on a cross not a few hours

jews didnot use aloe on dead bodys
but like today aloe was/is used to heal wounds of the living

a honest study of the real facts, will bring one idea based on the reports,
HE DIDNOT DIE, it was faked, then JC fled to the south of france or parts unknown
later a guy named saul/paul invented a religion loosely based on JC's life and fake death, and wrote most of the new "T" without ever meeting the man the story is based on himself.

then others revised and edited storys of JC throwing out thomas and "Q"to make the bible that would make romans happy and church freindly
loosing the real ideas of JC in the process

 

[plus]

Originally posted by ray b
so what??
most people are eazy too fool
and believe many silly and/or stupid things

most arabs believe in martyrdom and the muli-virgin rewards promisted them for blowing themselfs and others UP for their god

aztec's belived in killing POWs to insure the sunrize

and you allso support a fairytale with a man/god hero but again SO WHAT

the bible STORY is full of holes
like no bodys were removed from a cross
they were to rot in place by law

JC died way to quickly 3-4 days was the time it took to die on a cross not a few hours

jews didnot use aloe on dead bodys
but like today aloe was/is used to heal wounds of the living

a honest study of the real facts, will bring one idea based on the reports,
HE DIDNOT DIE, it was faked, then JC fled to the south of france or parts unknown
later a guy named saul/paul invented a religion loosely based on JC's life and fake death, and wrote most of the new "T" without ever meeting the man the story is based on himself.

then others revised and edited storys of JC throwing out thomas and "Q"to make the bible that would make romans happy and church freindly
loosing the real ideas of JC in the process

You misunderstood my post. I was saying it to ridicule the christians, not to give support based upon mass opinion. I am certainly not a christian.

The majority of people might believe that they have a good chance of winning the lottery, but they are delusional. People tend to get that way when good things such as eternal paradise are waved infront of them.

 

[Saint]

Jesus In The Talmud

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesus.html

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Singularity
All of you are missing the point. You're thinking : I will believe when I see, when in fact you will SEE when you BELIEVE. There are countless people who can confess to this statement, people who thought just as you did once. Many believe, what if God doesn't exist? Well I say what if he does? You have to take both possibilities into account. I say again, Believe first, and then see. You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

That's the way liars convince their marks to buy into a lie. That is NOT the way any logical system works.

 

[BoulderHead]

Originally posted by plus
Most of the population of US/ Uk think jesus lives!

This is Fantastical !

If I could get enough people to believe that I live, would this make me immortal?

 

[Saint]

So far as I know, Catholic believes many things that disproved by protestant, for example, Catholic prays to St. Mary, St Anne (Mary's mother, Jesus' grandma) , Catholic believes that after death, man's soul will go to purgatory first, only those believe in St. Mary can go to heaven later on; but protestant disbelieve this.

Anyway, catholic and protestant both believe something based on bible (actually their bibles are a bit different in terms of the number of books recognised as authentic);but they differ in some ways.

The question is:

If Jesus is true God and almighty, willing to have all men saved by Him, why he allows such a disparity among different sects in Christianity itself?

I guess, the logical answer is: religion is man made.

 

[Singularity]

Originally posted by ahrkron
Why do I bring this up? becuase I think that teaching children to accept things on the basis of authority, even if it makes no sense to them, hinders their curiosity and their ability to explore, to search for structure.

Also, I would rather have people being good because of fascination for life and an understanding of an individual's role on society than because of love and fear of an immaterial entity.

I see things differently. I have a fascination with nature, physics and the way the world works. I still try to explain things when I lay on my bed, or when I am driving, etc. My sense of exploration is not hindered by my faith, rather I am driven to unravell the amazing way in which God has woven the universe together. The universe is, if you will, our playground. Perhaps you mean questioning faith, God and religion. Of course there are many things I do not understand : How does the Holy Trinity work, what is heaven like, etc. But I do not for one second let my inability to comprehend God interfere with the fact the He exists.

 

[Singularity]

Originally posted by plus
You misunderstood my post. I was saying it to ridicule the christians, not to give support based upon mass opinion. I am certainly not a christian.

And it is your right to make such a descicion, just as it is mine to BE a christian. I pray you change your mind, but I have to respect the choice you make. I ask only that you respect my choice, and NOT ridicule my faith.

 

[ray b]

Originally posted by Singularity
And it is your right to make such a descicion, just as it is mine to BE a christian. I pray you change your mind, but I have to respect the choice you make. I ask only that you respect my choice, and NOT ridicule my faith.

well then pick a less rediculless fairytale to believe in
hopefully one that has a less bloody history
and is less of a threat to the freedom of others by wanting to make a christian out of everyone

btw
DO YOU RESPECT MY BELIFE IN SEX AND DRUGS AND ROCK&ROLL?
if not, why should I respect your belifes?

and just how different are your "GODS LAWS" from the tali-ban's version?

 

[Singularity]

Very well guys. I seem to be making more enemies than friends. I respect all of you as physicists. Let's focus on what we do have in common, rather than on what we don't. Speak to you in the theoretical physics forum.