How do you read the flirting traffic signals women send men?

[27Thousand]

How do you "read" the flirting traffic signals women send men?

Have you noticed that when you're around someone you feel attracted to, you feel different on the inside than you do when you're around someone you aren't attracted to? Well, apparently we send off subtle body language signals when we feel certain ways around people. How would you feel if you could learn the art of reading whether members of the opposite sex are attracted to you, just like Isaac Newton systemized physical laws in physics? That would be sweet!

So check this out, I found out about an interesting scientific journal peer-review study (reference 1 at the bottom) where they had hidden cameras in the ceiling of a large singles event with about 200 men and 200 women. They filmed the entire party, including who approached whom, who danced with whom, and who left with whom. Then the researchers rewound the tape and analyzed. They found most of the time when a guy came over to talk to a girl, she had subliminally "lured" him over with one "subtle signal" or another. I would like to get the the actual study; it sounds interesting. It could be useful knowledge. I've heard that other researchers have come to similar conclusions where they found most of the time when a man asks a woman on a date, the woman had already sent off certain types of body language signals beforehand (personally reminds me of the morse code). Most of the time when a man gets rejected by a woman, the woman didn't actually send him these body language signals. Although men do the asking, there is supposed to be a type of flirting traffic signal system going on: 1. Women select a potential; 2. The woman gives the man a green light (regardless of whether she is consciously or subconsciously aware); 3. The man has to take action or else she'll send signals to someone else; 4. If a woman is not interested she will give a red light.

For example, I was reading there's supposed to be signals such as smiling, looking back a second time after making eye contact, palms facing toward the guy, leaning in toward the guy, personal distance zone and how it changes, brushing her hair back while talking. She may possibly run a finger around a glass, play with something in her mouth when listening, let a shoe dangle on her toes, loosen her clothing. These things aren't supposed to be likely when she's around a guy she's not interested in, which makes sense. I read that apparently this is only the tip of the iceberg in the morse code signals women send. Just like you may pull apart legos to learn the rules that form a system, I wonder if one could learn to systemize all of this Sir Isaac Newton style?

So a question I have for the women, what advice would you give men in going about deciphering the body language "morse code" signals women send out? How do you read the flirting traffic signals, to tell the difference between "green light" versus other signals? I know women say they feel disappointed when men they like won't ask them out, while at the same time they hate it when men they're not interested in ask them out missing "obvious hints". If men get to know this flirting traffic code book, then I'd think that's good for the women. What hints do you personally use, or are aware of, or even notice that other women use on men?
1. Moore, M.M. (1985) "Nonverbal Courtship Patterns in Women: Context and Consequences." Ethology and Sociobiology, 6:237-247.

Another reference that I would be interested in reading the original:

2. Grammer, K., Kruck, K., Juette, A. & Fink, B. (2000) Non-verbal behaviour as courtship signals: the role of control and choice in selecting partners. Evolution and Human Behaviour, 21, 371-390.

Reference that many women flirting signals are universal across the world, even if with different variations:

3. Cook, Mark and Robert McHenry, 1978. Sexual Attraction. New York Pergamon Press

 

[leroyjenkens]

palms facing toward the guy

I've heard this one before, but I can't picture it. What stance would you ever be in where your palms are facing somebody?
I guess if she does that mime trapped in a box thing, then I could see it.

I think it's silly having "signals". Why are we trying to decipher this code, like some ancient language, when we're all humans and we can communicate with a language we all speak?
If you like somebody, tell them you like them. It doesn't have to be that straightforward, but straightforward enough that anyone would understand.
It makes no sense to pass up on guys you like, going from guy to guy until you find one who can crack the code.

But since some women will always be like that, regardless of what I have to say, I agree that it would be cool if the Isaac Newton of dating would emerge and show us the way.

 

[27Thousand]

I've heard this one before, but I can't picture it. What stance would you ever be in where your palms are facing somebody?
I guess if she does that mime trapped in a box thing, then I could see it.

That's what I thought too. I think finding a book with actual pictures of what's going on, then do it yourself exercises where you observe the scientific research in the real world, could be helpful.

I think it's silly having "signals". Why are we trying to decipher this code, like some ancient language, when we're all humans and we can communicate with a language we all speak?
If you like somebody, tell them you like them. It doesn't have to be that straightforward, but straightforward enough that anyone would understand.
It makes no sense to pass up on guys you like, going from guy to guy until you find one who can crack the code.

But since some women will always be like that, regardless of what I have to say, I agree that it would be cool if the Isaac Newton of dating would emerge and show us the way.

Something to consider, I read:

"When a man and a woman meet for the first time, both are in a difficult, ambiguous and potentially risky situation. Neither person knows what the other's intentions and feelings are. Because stating intentions and feelings verbally involves a high risk of embarrassment or possible rejection, non-verbal behaviour becomes the main channel of communication. Unlike the spoken word, body language can signal invitation, acceptance or refusal without being too obvious, without causing offence or making binding commitments."

When you think about it, people don't typically just walk up to random people on the streets. If what I read is true, reading body language and testing the waters verbally in indirect ways may be more safe and less likely to explode into hard rejection.

Also something I found interesting, surveys find that men think of women who do the actual verbal date asking to be more sexually available. Women may avoid that and just send the signals to avoid those impressions.

So as a guy, that's why I'm interested in reading them. I'm terrible at reading people.

 

[lisab]

Have to agree about the palm thing...made me think of something like this:

 

[edward]

Body language has been around since before a spoken language. For the most part it is done subconsciously. There are plenty of web sites that describe human body language.

 

[edward]

Have to agree about the palm thing...made me think of something like this:

And a right to the jaw by the champ.

 

[Lancelot59]

I personally try not to solely dissect body language, because that can sometimes end badly.

*Bad memories*

However it does play a huge role and for the most part is pretty accurate. As for that funny feeling inside, well we all know what that is like. It's like a strange combination of fear and excitement.



I actually find it kind of neat watching how these shifts happen in people. It's actually kind of funny observing the sudden differences in behaviour.

It's all part of this fun little mechanism that nature set up to trick us into reproducing. We see someone we like, we try to get their attention.

 

[27Thousand]

Have to agree about the palm thing...made me think of something like this:

Ha ha! That was funny. Actually I just found out one thing they're referring to. While sitting and listening to a man, a woman may rest her chin/jaw on her knuckles. Visualizing it or trying it yourself, if she faces her palm toward the man while resting on her knuckles, that's more of a sign that she's attracted. If she has her palm facing toward herself and away from the man, she's supposed to be neutral. If she makes a fist, then that's supposed to be not so good feelings. And of course it said you don't look for one signal, but rather that body language works by observing multiple signals/patterns.

 

[27Thousand]

Here are some body language signals I read about that women send subconsciously when feeling attracted to a man:

She may perk up/sit up straight when the man walks into the room, perhaps all of a sudden shoulders back and chest out. Or in some situations she may try an attractive pose. If two women are talking to each other and young, they may peek at the man and giggle or might even cuddle with each other and point. Older women may whisper to each other in a more sophisticated way.

A woman feeling attracted may look "down and away" and then within the next minute look back at the man, as opposed to looking to the side or up and away. She may peek at the man over a book or something else she's looking at. She may give him repeated sidelong glances.

When she notices the man, she may adjust her clothing or remove some like she thinks its warm in the room. She may let a shoe dangle on her foot or toes, which apparently isn't supposed to be as likely around a man she doesn't care about. She may try to subtly show off with her legs, perhaps pull her skirt up to show more leg or some other way to draw attention with them. She may raise her arm, putting her hand behind her head, and flash her underarm.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs001.snc1/4143_91946035368_19614945368_1840717_5543840_n.jpg

However usually with just one arm.

We all have personal space zones, and she may stand or sit closer than one normally would. Or if not her body, she may do it with a limb or object she's using. She may try to innocently touch the man, maybe the hand or arm. Or if she can't do that she may try to lean toward him and into his personal space.

She may tug or play with the jewelry she's wearing. She may rest her head on her knuckles with her palm facing toward the man rather than toward herself. She may try to expose her neck, or pull her hair aside in the process. She may primp in front of the guy. She may use a hand to caress herself while the guy's watching. She may play with her hair.

If she's hanging out with the man, she may act goofy. She may also do a shoulder scrunch, acting like a little girl. She may try copying the man's body movements; when he moves to drink with one hand, she may try to mirror.

If she's really into the man, she may lick her lips. She may use her finger to pet the rim of a bowl or the stem of a glass. While listening, she may stick a swizzle stick, spoon, etc in her mouth, or maybe a finger.

 

[Galteeth]

Here are some body language signals I read about that women send subconsciously when feeling attracted to a man:

She may perk up/sit up straight when the man walks into the room, perhaps all of a sudden shoulders back and chest out. Or in some situations she may try an attractive pose. If two women are talking to each other and young, they may peek at the man and giggle or might even cuddle with each other and point. Older women may whisper to each other in a more sophisticated way.

A woman feeling attracted may look "down and away" and then within the next minute look back at the man, as opposed to looking to the side or up and away. She may peek at the man over a book or something else she's looking at. She may give him repeated sidelong glances.

When she notices the man, she may adjust her clothing or remove some like she thinks its warm in the room. She may let a shoe dangle on her foot or toes, which apparently isn't supposed to be as likely around a man she doesn't care about. She may try to subtly show off with her legs, perhaps pull her skirt up to show more leg or some other way to draw attention with them. She may raise her arm, putting her hand behind her head, and flash her underarm.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs001.snc1/4143_91946035368_19614945368_1840717_5543840_n.jpg

However usually with just one arm.

We all have personal space zones, and she may stand or sit closer than one normally would. Or if not her body, she may do it with a limb or object she's using. She may try to innocently touch the man, maybe the hand or arm. Or if she can't do that she may try to lean toward him and into his personal space.

She may tug or play with the jewelry she's wearing. She may rest her head on her knuckles with her palm facing toward the man rather than toward herself. She may try to expose her neck, or pull her hair aside in the process. She may primp in front of the guy. She may use a hand to caress herself while the guy's watching. She may play with her hair.

If she's hanging out with the man, she may act goofy. She may also do a shoulder scrunch, acting like a little girl. She may try copying the man's body movements; when he moves to drink with one hand, she may try to mirror.

If she's really into the man, she may lick her lips. She may use her finger to pet the rim of a bowl or the stem of a glass. While listening, she may stick a swizzle stick, spoon, etc in her mouth, or maybe a finger.

What does it mean if she disrobes and does jumping jacks?

 

[27Thousand]

What does it mean if she disrobes and does jumping jacks?

LOL, I would guess that means you're already married or in some type of relationship That would be funny. The body language signals above are just what I've heard is some of the research done. Being a guy, I know that guys do the perk up/sit up straight thing too just like it was saying about women sometimes doing it. Then there's the lip lick, and I know some guys will do it occasionally and very briefly, when around really good looking women.

 

[Galteeth]

LOL, I would guess that means you're already married or in some type of relationship That would be funny. The body language signals above are just what I've heard is some of the research done. Being a guy, I know that guys do the perk up/sit up straight thing too just like it was saying about women sometimes doing it. Then there's the lip lick, and I know some guys will do it occasionally and very briefly, when around really good looking women.

Realize that some people also know how to lie with body language. (Ever heard of a "false tell" in poker?)

 

[27Thousand]

Realize that some people also know how to lie with body language. (Ever heard of a "false tell" in poker?)

You're not suggesting that a woman likes to dangle a shoe on her foot or toes, or lick her lips, when she sees a guy she thinks is a pig? I guess I could understand if it's a psychopath trying rip people off for their money, but in almost all normal situations

People can lie with anything, but most can lie verbally a lot easier than multiple channels of body language.

And how do we explain the Scientific Method about women sending out non-verbal signals the majority of the time a man asks a woman on a date?

 

[Galteeth]

You're not suggesting that a woman likes to dangle a shoe on her foot or toes, or lick her lips, when she sees a guy she thinks is a pig? I guess I could understand if it's a psychopath trying rip people off for their money, but in almost all normal situations

People can lie with anything, but most can lie verbally a lot easier than multiple channels of body language.

And how do we explain the Scientific Method about women sending out non-verbal signals the majority of the time a man asks a woman on a date?

Real life example: A girl was trying to get a job that I was in a position to give her. She was working one day as a sort of try-out. At one point before she was going to leave, she asks "So you'll call me about the job right?" and flips her hair then touches my wrist. She was younger, and it was sort of obvious that in this context it was not a subconscious "I think you're attractive" but more so an "I want you to believe that I think you're attractive because I want this job." As I recall there was an eye lash batting in ther somewhere too. It was sort of amusing because it was very unsubtle body language, and also pretty phony seeming.

 

[leroyjenkens]

She may rest her head on her knuckles with her palm facing toward the man rather than toward herself.

Again with the palm.

On second thought, I do sometimes stand in my Jesus pose.

 

[muppet]

She may... flash her underarm

I for one can't get enough of those pits. Guys, who's with me?

(P.S lisab, I loved teh kitty pic)

 

[physics girl phd]

I for one can't get enough of those pits. Guys, who's with me?

This might be about smell compatibility. http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-sniff-sniff-thats-dating-compatibility-you-smell/"

 

[Born2bwire]

How do you "read" the flirting traffic signals women send men?

Incorrectly.

 

[Lancelot59]

Incorrectly.

That is one of the best lines ever.

 

[BobG]

My first guess would be that you have to look at them, but after the last thread we had about that, I'm not so sure anymore.

I am looking forward to seeing that xkcd cartoon about 5 or 6 more times, though.

 

[Soca fo so]

I like to read them in braille, just feel the bumps. "Boom boom tish". As you can probably tell I'm single...

 

[Lancelot59]

Actually it's Ba dun tish but the idea is the same.

Also, that's funny.

 

[27Thousand]

Real life example: A girl was trying to get a job that I was in a position to give her. She was working one day as a sort of try-out. At one point before she was going to leave, she asks "So you'll call me about the job right?" and flips her hair then touches my wrist. She was younger, and it was sort of obvious that in this context it was not a subconscious "I think you're attractive" but more so an "I want you to believe that I think you're attractive because I want this job." As I recall there was an eye lash batting in ther somewhere too. It was sort of amusing because it was very unsubtle body language, and also pretty phony seeming.

Okay, so something I'm thinking about, I used to be very very bad with body language. Then I looked at a basic teach yourself body language book with do it yourself exercises, ones that have you observe people doing certain things and also try it both ways and compare how people react in certain situations, and it combined it with actual peer-review research on the subject. It has seemed to help a lot. More importantly, I was with this one guy who decided to hit on a stranger. She didn't sound like she wanted to talk to him at all and she looked up and away like she was rolling her eyes (from my perspective she was probably uneasy). Then later on he was getting mad telling me how she was stuck up. Although I don't hang out with him much, I've actually seen him try to hit on women multiple times and from what I read in that other body language book they didn't seem impressed, plus he would get mad later on and complain about how women are stuck up. So as far as "acceptance" and "rejection" go, it just seems to me that reading body language would be useful. Although context of the situation must be considered, if something works 9/10 times don't you think it's better than doing nothing at all because of that 1/10 time.

So what I'm trying to figure out from this, if they stick hidden cameras at singles' events and find that most of the time when a man asks a woman on a date she sends body language signals, and most of the time when men get rejected she didn't actually send those signals, then how do we explain that? (of course it wasn't 100% in all situations according to the study, but it still makes you think) And if it's been replicated by many independently and put into scientific peer-review journals?

 

[Soca fo so]

Thanks Lancelot I'll remember that next time

 

[DaveC426913]

palms facing toward the guy,

I've heard this one before, but I can't picture it. What stance would you ever be in where your palms are facing somebody?

Heh. I thought the same thing. But consider the rest of 27K's examples:

... palms facing toward the guy, leaning in toward the guy, personal distance zone and how it changes, brushing her hair back while talking. She may possibly run a finger around a glass, play with something in her mouth when listening, let a shoe dangle on her toes, loosen her clothing.

These examples are more related to being in face-to-face contact with the guy as opposed to across the room.

If you are talking with a girl she might have her hands on the table. If her hands are palm down and closed over each other, that's a no-go signal. But if she were turning her palms up, maybe playing with a wrist bracelet or with her fingertips or cupping a wine glass then she's showing she's open.

 

[DaveC426913]

So what I'm trying to figure out from this, if they stick hidden cameras at singles' events and find that most of the time when a man asks a woman on a date she sends body language signals, and most of the time when men get rejected she didn't actually send those signals, then how do we explain that?

Explain what?

 

[27Thousand]

Explain what?

Sorry for any confusion on how I worded it. What I meant by that is in Science although you can't prove absolute truth, you can say given the evidence this is the best explanation. If someone says that women don't send men signals, particularly body language signals to regulate when they'd be receptive to male interaction, then the study with the cameras doesn't make any sense. Given that it's been replicated, it causes even more cognitive dissonance. It would be unexplained evidence. However, the study would make the most sense if women really do send body language signals (either consciously or subconsciously) to give the green light. Using the least amount of assumptions to explain the most amount of facts, well you get my point.

Of course you can't prove absolute "this is the whole and nothing but the truth" using the Scientific Method and perhaps there's a lot more than body language signals (although many say it's more non-verbal at first), but based on the study it would seem rational body language is a big part.

 

[DaveC426913]

If someone says that women don't send men signals..

Who is claiming this does not happen?

 

[Astronuc]

Body language has been around since before a spoken language. For the most part it is done subconsciously. There are plenty of web sites that describe human body language.

Fortunately I have Aspberger's syndrome, so I'm apparently oblivious to body language.

 

[GeorginaS]

People can lie with anything, but most can lie verbally a lot easier than multiple channels of body language.

Don't count on that. Some people are very, very skilled at body language and use it pointedly. Don't ever forget that.

 

[DaveC426913]

Don't count on that. Some people are very, very skilled at body language and use it pointedly. Don't ever forget that.

That's what he said. Yes, some people are skilled at lying through their body language, but most people are much better liars verbally.

 

[Lancelot59]

True that. Lying well with your body takes skill.

 

[Galteeth]

Sorry for any confusion on how I worded it. What I meant by that is in Science although you can't prove absolute truth, you can say given the evidence this is the best explanation. If someone says that women don't send men signals, particularly body language signals to regulate when they'd be receptive to male interaction, then the study with the cameras doesn't make any sense. Given that it's been replicated, it causes even more cognitive dissonance. It would be unexplained evidence. However, the study would make the most sense if women really do send body language signals (either consciously or subconsciously) to give the green light. Using the least amount of assumptions to explain the most amount of facts, well you get my point.

Of course you can't prove absolute "this is the whole and nothing but the truth" using the Scientific Method and perhaps there's a lot more than body language signals (although many say it's more non-verbal at first), but based on the study it would seem rational body language is a big part.

Well, if you want a non-scientific, completely made up explanation of body language, there's always NLP. I met this British dude in a bar who claimed to be a NLP expert. He was going to demonstrate his skill to me by picking up some women. He was pretty drunk, and the results were hillarious. At one point he jumped in the air and spun around. It didn't work.

Basic body language isn't that hard to read. Rolling your eyes does generally mean exasperation, someone turning their back to you means they don't want to talk to you, etc.

I think the difficulty that a large study of body language would run into is that language is not universally expressed. Even in places where the same language is spoken, there can be so much subtle difference between how individual people use language. While a study might uncover some generalities, it is probably more useful to get an intuitive feel for how people use body language for the purposes you are describing.

 

[BobG]

...it is probably more useful to get an intuitive feel for how people use body language for the purposes you are describing.

That's generally how it's supposed to work in just about the entire animal kingdom.

A reliance on language to the point that our thoughts wind up being a constant narrative to ourselves suppresses some of our reliance on body language - at least to the point that many people are uncertain if they're reading other peoples' signals correctly.

 

[27Thousand]

it is probably more useful to get an intuitive feel for how people use body language for the purposes you are describing.

And so what about those who aren't as good at getting that "intuitive feel"? Don't you think using something that works 9/10 times is better than nothing at all? As an analogy, if someone has a learning disorder or dyslexia, do you say, "Oh, just figure it out on your own," even after they keep on trying to figure it out over and over again. Why can't there also be people who neurologically don't catch on as well to interacting with members of the opposite sex? Someone who learns to play the piano or a sophicated sport may not learn by being thrown into the deep end of the pool, but can still learn from "real life experience/practice" if they're given instruction and what to look for/try. Why can't that "playing the piano/sport" method be used for those who don't catch on as well? Aren't there some world class piano/sports players, even if those areas aren't learned by intuitive feel and by being thrown into the deep end of the pool? So what if social skills were to be learned that way?

Consider this, we've all seen social retards who keep on hitting on the same person over and over again and then the woman complains that the guy just doesn't take a hint, or on the other hand those guys who never ask anyone because of fear of rejection/don't know what to do (I'm the second type). It's not like we're training to be FBI agents dealing with psychopaths who are deceivers, but rather trying to find out if someone's simply interested so that there's more date asking and at the same time less rejection.

Something to consider, if there are many studies with cameras, or similar ways of studying, that have found most of the time when a man asks a woman on a date she actually shows subtle body language signals, and most of the time when he gets rejected she didn't actually send signals, don't you think something's going on? (just because many are sent subconsciously doesn't mean they don't happen) The only way the evidence makes any sense is if subtle body language have some part in the process. If not, how do you EXPLAIN all those studies?

Now because of that last line in your last post, I'm confused if what you're really trying to say is women normally give those signals listed in post 9 when they're not interested, or if you're instead saying for the most part it's typically that way but there are a few exceptions to the rule? I'm confused, are you saying from your experience women normally let a shoe dangle from their feet or even perhaps “lick their lips” when they notice a guy watching who they think is a “pig”? Do they try to sit/stand closer than personal space would normally allow, or lean toward him smiling, if it's a guy they have no interest in?