Kirk Cameron plans to re-distribute The Origin of Species

[vincentm]

how sad, this guy is an idiot

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/22/kirk-camerons-origin-of-s_n_294349.html?meh"

 

[Evo]

It is astoundingly ridiculous that someone would try to skew the truth to push their personal beliefs. I have never understood this type of thinking. He has radical evangelical beliefs, he does not represent the majority of Christians in this country, IMO. Even the Catholic church agrees with evolution.

 

[DavidSnider]

Oh yes, this has been known for a long time. 'Banana Man' went viral many moons ago.

 

[JG89]

Watching his video makes me want to kick myself in the nuts.

 

[Moonbear]

I like the accompanying video, "Origin of Stupidity." I agree with the suggestion made at the end of that video. If you see someone distributing these copies with the nonsense introduction, take as many as you can. Cut out the introduction and use it to kindle your fire this winter, and you have a free copy of the The Origin of Species.

 

[DavidSnider]

He has radical evangelical beliefs, he does not represent the majority of Christians in this country, IMO. Even the Catholic church agrees with evolution.

Among weekly churchgoers, 24 percent believe in evolution, while 41 percent do not and 35 percent have no opinion. Among those who seldom or never attend church, 55 percent belief in evolution, while 11 percent do not, and 34 percent have no opinion.

Look to the question of how many Americans believe in Darwin's theory of natural selection, and the numbers shrink further. Gallup puts that number at 14 percent, while the Pew Research Center puts it at 26 percent. Both organizations put the number of Americans who favor creationism at about 43 percent, higher than the proportion than believes in evolution, according to a recent Pew report.

 

[Office_Shredder]

That's only a plurality technically

 

[Evo]

My point was that normal people that consider themselves Christians would never consider going to such insane lengths to impose their beliefs on others. It would be interesting, however, to see what the approval rate of this action is among people that consider thenmselves Christian. I am hoping that it would be low.

 

[DavidSnider]

My point was that normal people that consider themselves Christians would never consider going to such insane lengths to impose their beliefs on others.

That's kind of strange considering what most Christians believe. "I think you're going to burn in hell for all eternity and are wasting a second chance at life, but, oh well, to each his own."

I have to give fundamentalists credit for this: They act as if they actually believe it's true.

 

[Sorry!]

Ah man after this guy made the assumption that atheism is brainwashed kids who don't know the alternatives I had to stop the video. I honestly hate these type of people.

I am myself an atheist and assuming most other atheists are like myself then it is very fair to say that atheist know MORE about the alternatives than any christian. I've read so many religious scriptures it's mind boggling. Yet when I go to my girlfriends church they can't even name more than 3-4 other religions of the world let alone know what their values are.

In fact a lot of them don't even know what christianity means or what the bible says. I sometimes used to go to my girlfriends bible studies to teach them. I wouldn't tell them if it was right or wrong I would just lay out the biblical stories we read and tell them the morals and meaning behind each one. (From a christian perspective.)

I think it's clear beyond any sort of doubt who is brainwashed into their beliefs.

/rant

 

[Al68]

Yet when I go to my girlfriends church...

Now all the Christian women will know how to get atheists to go to church.

 

[DrClapeyron]

There's nothing like using the Hitler card.

 

[DavidSnider]

There's nothing like using the Hitler card.

You know who else liked to use the Hitler card?

That's right.

Hitler.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

That's kind of strange considering what most Christians believe. "I think you're going to burn in hell for all eternity and are wasting a second chance at life, but, oh well, to each his own."

I've met very few christians who actually believe this. Most of the ones I have met only vaguely refer to themselves as christian since they seem to feel the need to have a religion even though they do not really practice it.

Ah man after this guy made the assumption that atheism is brainwashed kids who don't know the alternatives I had to stop the video. I honestly hate these type of people.

I am myself an atheist and assuming most other atheists are like myself then it is very fair to say that atheist know MORE about the alternatives than any christian.

I have met several atheists that did not really have any idea what they were talking about. On another forum I go to I regularly am pointing out poor logic and outright misinformation used in anti-theist arguments. Its really sad but there truly are several 'atheists' out there that make us nontheists look pretty ignorant.

Now all the Christian women will know how to get atheists to go to church.

I had one trick me once. *****.

 

[Sorry!]

I have met several atheists that did not really have any idea what they were talking about. On another forum I go to I regularly am pointing out poor logic and outright misinformation used in anti-theist arguments. Its really sad but there truly are several 'atheists' out there that make us nontheists look pretty ignorant.

I would assume they aren't what he speaks of in the video though, the 19-25 age group. Most of the ignorant atheists I've met are like my dad. Don't know anything of what they are talking about but run their mouths whenever something religious pops up.

The majority of people in the age group of 19-25 I've met are nothing like this type of atheist. (Being in the lower age group of this section and having many friends all through-out this group that are atheist). It would be pretty presumptuous of me to claim that everyone acts this way but the majority of people I've talked to are not 'brainwashed atheist'.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I would assume they aren't what he speaks of in the video though, the 19-25 age group. Most of the ignorant atheists I've met are like my dad. Don't know anything of what they are talking about but run their mouths whenever something religious pops up.

The majority of people in the age group of 19-25 I've met are nothing like this type of atheist. (Being in the lower age group of this section and having many friends all through-out this group that are atheist). It would be pretty presumptuous of me to claim that everyone acts this way but the majority of people I've talked to are not 'brainwashed atheist'.

I am talking primarily about younger people. They strike me as young people having been raised in a christian home or in a highly religious community who are now rebelling and lashing out at the religious. They tend to look for the most insulting ways to argue against religion and what seems rather telling is that they seem to base all or most of their arguments against the existence of god on christian doctrine.

If most of your peers are in college then they are likely more thoughtful. I know that most of my friends are generally more thoughtful too. There are many of those young college students though who seem to have only just discovered logic in their philosophy course.

 

[Pengwuino]

That's kind of strange considering what most Christians believe. "I think you're going to burn in hell for all eternity and are wasting a second chance at life, but, oh well, to each his own."

You'll probably find a large number of people who believe in Global Warming, yet aren't supporters or act like eco-terrorist groups like ELF or whatever that one half way known group is called.

Also, I know approximately 0 Christians who believe people will burn in hell for something silly like believing evolution or having sex before marriage or the typical stupidity people say about Christians.

0/2 there.

 

[Zantra]

/sigh

Mike have you been listening to boner's advice... AGAIN??


Interesting to note that in a 2006 Larry King growing pains reunion show, Kirk claimed that he wasn't in fact, religious, but then went on to mention all of these christian shows he'd been workin on.

I know he doesn't have a career to speak of anymore, but you'd think he would be more careful about his image Apparently image is no longer an issue. Too sad.. I loved that show.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Now all the Christian women will know how to get atheists to go to church.

It's called "Missionary Dating" (or sometimes "flirt to convert") and it's rather controversial in the various Christian communities.

 

[kyleb]

Its really sad but there truly are several 'atheists' out there that make us nontheists look pretty ignorant.

There are lots of morons on all sides of the God argument, just like any other.

Also, I know approximately 0 Christians who believe people will burn in hell for something silly like believing evolution or having sex before marriage or the typical stupidity people say about Christians.

I've met plenty in my time, two just the other day. One was reasonably jovial about it while the other the was straight fire and brimstone. Granted, I live in Kansas.

 

[gabrielh]

Watching his video makes me want to kick myself in the nuts.

I cannot respond in a better way.

 

[gabrielh]

There are lots of morons on all sides of the God argument, just like any other.I've met plenty in my time, two just the other day. One was reasonably jovial about it while the other the was straight fire and brimstone. Granted, I live in Kansas.

I've experienced the same thing here; in the Appalachians of course.

 

[mheslep]

Among weekly churchgoers, 24 percent believe in evolution, while 41 percent do not and 35 percent have no opinion. Among those who seldom or never attend church, 55 percent belief in evolution, while 11 percent do not, and 34 percent have no opinion...

I suspect part of that response is phrasing dependent. "Believe in evolution"? If the question was "Do you hold that the Earth is no more than 8000 years old, that Adam and Eve were the first people created from dust, that there were no dinosaurs" and so on, I suspect we would not see a complementary response, i.e. 76%, answering yes.

 

[turbo]

It's called "Missionary Dating" (or sometimes "flirt to convert") and it's rather controversial in the various Christian communities.

I have an old friend/former neighbor who was tag-teamed weekly by a couple of young ladies from a fundamentalist church in the area. "Fig" (his last name is Newton) is a very nice and patient guy, and he enjoyed the company when he wasn't on-duty at the fire-house. The ladies gave him a bunch of crap, though, when they stopped in and he was re-loading ammunition for one of his rifles at the kitchen table. After he ran them off, he stomped down-stairs and ranted about how they had told him that it was "sinful" for him to enjoy shooting and hunting.

After that, he put up a hand-made sign saying "No god-damned (insert fundamentalist sect here) ALLOWED! He was pretty ticked.

 

[DavidSnider]

I suspect part of that response is phrasing dependent. "Believe in evolution"? If the question was "Do you hold that the Earth is no more than 8000 years old, that Adam and Eve were the first people created from dust, that there were no dinosaurs" and so on, I suspect we would not see a complementary response, i.e. 76%, answering yes.

I doubt it. NSF asks the same question this way:

"Human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals." and only 43% answer correctly.

Oddly enough though:

"The continents on which we live have been moving their location for millions of years and will continue to move in the future." gets 80% correct answers.

 

[Gokul43201]

I suspect part of that response is phrasing dependent. "Believe in evolution"? If the question was "Do you hold that the Earth is no more than 8000 years old, that Adam and Eve were the first people created from dust, that there were no dinosaurs" and so on, I suspect we would not see a complementary response, i.e. 76%, answering yes.

Creationists do not believe that dinosaurs didn't exist; they believe that man coexisted with dinosaurs.

From the Creation Museum, in Petersburg, KY:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Creation_Museum_10.png/800px-Creation_Museum_10.png

According to this reasonably recent Harris Poll survey, 64% of weekly churchgoers identify themselves as creationists (table 2, row 13). That's a fairly large chunk of the complement to the 27% that disavow any belief in Darwinian evolution.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=982

According to Harris, Gallup, Newsweek, CBS, CNN, NBC and a few other pollsters, that fraction is about 40-55% among the overall population. The phrasing "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so" (Gallup) and "God created human beings in their present form exactly the way the Bible describes it" (CNN/USA Today) - to pick a couple of representative examples - meets most of your criteria, but for the dinosaur bit.

In general, it appears that this represents the fraction of Americans (40-50%) that believe in an essentially literal reading of the OT, as evidenced, for example by the 44% that responded to an NBC poll stating they believed that "God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh as described in the Book of Genesis" and by the 55% of respondents to Gallup that state that all or most of the OT is the true word of God. It is not unreasonable to expect this fraction to be significantly higher among weekly churchgoers.

http://www.pollingreport.com/science.htm

 

[Gokul43201]

That's kind of strange considering what most Christians believe. "I think you're going to burn in hell for all eternity and are wasting a second chance at life, but, oh well, to each his own."

I've met very few christians who actually believe this. Most of the ones I have met only vaguely refer to themselves as christian since they seem to feel the need to have a religion even though they do not really practice it.

According to the Harris Poll cited in the previous post, about 60% of all Americans believe in Hell and in the Devil.

 

[turbo]

According to the Harris Poll cited in the previous post, about 60% of all Americans believe in Hell and in the Devil.

Perhaps. I would qualify this by saying that perhaps 60% of all Americans stupid enough to respond to such a poll might respond that way. When pollsters call me or mail me, I ignore them and hang up or toss the mailings. I have a sneaking suspicion that most PFrs would do the same.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

According to the Harris Poll cited in the previous post, about 60% of all Americans believe in Hell and in the Devil.

However, I doubt that any 10% of those would agree on what they mean by that.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I am sooooo sick of people trying to push their religious beliefs off as anything but faith... I loved the video response to Cameron's crusade.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

According to the Harris Poll cited in the previous post, about 60% of all Americans believe in Hell and in the Devil.

I've had a christian lesbian friend whom, depending on the day and her mood, believed that she may be going to hell. Of course she did not always believe this but she obviously believed in hell. I had a supervisor at one of my jobs that often told me about how he was cheating on his wife and worried about whether or not god would forgive him. He had made friends with some of the gay students and occasionally wondered if they would be forgiven by god or whether or not god really hated gays. He was an open minded, if not very well educated, guy and was always willing to hear my interpretations of things from the bible even though I do not believe in god. While people may believe in hell and the devil it does not mean that they absolutely believe the fire and brimstone evangelical teachings about all unbelievers going to hell and such. There are plenty of liberal christians that believe only the 'truly evil' (ie, serial killers, ect) go to hell.

 

[mgb_phys]

Ok, aside from the question of why stupidity is inversely related to latitude.

Just because Origin is out of copyright can anyone take it, make some adjustments and republish their own edition?
I can imagine having some fun with editions of Popular Jewish Mythology 2.0, remove a few 'nots', add a requirement to eat only skittles on friday, that sort of thing.

 

[Al68]

I have an old friend/former neighbor who was tag-teamed weekly by a couple of young ladies from a fundamentalist church in the area. "Fig" (his last name is Newton) is a very nice and patient guy, and he enjoyed the company when he wasn't on-duty at the fire-house. The ladies gave him a bunch of crap, though, when they stopped in and he was re-loading ammunition for one of his rifles at the kitchen table. After he ran them off, he stomped down-stairs and ranted about how they had told him that it was "sinful" for him to enjoy shooting and hunting.

After that, he put up a hand-made sign saying "No god-damned (insert fundamentalist sect here) ALLOWED! He was pretty ticked.

I bet after a few weeks, he wished he had just shoved his guns and ammo in a closet whenever they came over.

 

[Sorry!]

Ok, aside from the question of why stupidity is inversely related to latitude.

Just because Origin is out of copyright can anyone take it, make some adjustments and republish their own edition?
I can imagine having some fun with editions of Popular Jewish Mythology 2.0, remove a few 'nots', add a requirement to eat only skittles on friday, that sort of thing.

Let's do it. Seriously I'm down.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Ok, aside from the question of why stupidity is inversely related to latitude.

Just because Origin is out of copyright can anyone take it, make some adjustments and republish their own edition?
I can imagine having some fun with editions of Popular Jewish Mythology 2.0, remove a few 'nots', add a requirement to eat only skittles on friday, that sort of thing.

Anyone can do pretty much anything with it except take credit for it. If there is significant enough change from the original someone may be capable of copyrighting that and taking credit for it. I am fairly certain that you could get in trouble though for printing an abridged addition of something in the public domain and making people believe it is the original. It wouldn't have anything to do with copyright law I don't think. Probably just some form of fraud.

As far as making a funny edition of the Torah or some such, even if it were still copy righted, you could likely getaway with it under the satire and parody clause. It would probably have to be significantly different though and titled in such a way as to leave little doubt that it may be the original.