Are Flying Triangles Real? Deciphering UFO Sightings and Technology

[Glenn]

Please move this post if necessary as I was not sure which forum it would be best suited to.



Reference:

http://space.com/businesstechnology...gle_040902.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5897539/

Assuming these sightings are not mass hallucinations and that a craft of unknown origin is really there, how would it work?

Here is an explanation I found, but I can't make heads or tails of it. Can you?

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1567.htm

Thanks,
Glenn

 

[Cyrus]

dont tell me YOU haven't seen one yet? :-) Err, yeah, why would the government put disco lights on their flying triangles that they stole from alien technology. I figure they want to do it in style, so that in the event that some citizen happens to see one fly over their house, at super low altitutes mind you, they will seem like crackpots. But really, if the government had flying sausers why would they waste their time flying over peoples houses? Dont you think they would go to parts of space never before thought possible? But then again, the government always seems to do what makes the least amount of sense and cost the most amount of money.

 

[humanino]

From outside of your country, it indeed looks like your governement is playing fool with you, like if that is very efficient to distract your attention Looks to much like a spoof to be true, yet not all of them can lie, so it must be an organized spoof, and what other purpuse could it serve, apart from occupying you to worry about them ?

You probably have an advanced technology for spcacecraft. If they wanted to hide it, they could. They want to show you just enough so that you know, but not too much.

Or maybe this conspiracy theory is even less likely than true aliens.

 

[Glenn]

I do indeed find it particularly disturbing that either the government or aliens are into disco. Troubling indeed.

But my question is not in regard to who/what they are.

My question is, does the physics explanation offered in the third link hold up to scrutiny? Would this mechanism theoretically work as described? Please explain.

-Glenn

 

[russ_watters]

Assuming these sightings are not mass hallucinations and that a craft of unknown origin is really there, how would it work?

Those are two awfully big assumptions.

I think such speculation is utterly useless. But to your specific question:

My question is, does the physics explanation offered in the third link hold up to scrutiny?

No, its utterly meaningless. It isn't an explanation, but rather Star-Trek style technobabble.

 

[humanino]

I would not be that affirmative. There are several possible ways that kind of spacecraft can fly. There is certainly not enough information in the link above : it is not reliable at all.

But there are true scientists working on MagnetoHydroDynamic (MHD) for instance, who claim this technology will one day provide such spacecraft . I find them reliable.

Your army keep many technologies secret. Even non-critical ones. This makes it difficult to say you cannot yet build this kind of devices. Other countries in the world also have a quite advanced and secrety spacecraft technologies.

 

[Cyrus]

We are facing a situation in which we know that some triangles are ours (as the 1989 sighting by Chris Gibson demonstrates), some triangles are big, some are small, some do not appear to be "ours." If there is a single terrestrial explanation for this, it would have to be a shadow group, most likely among people deeply immersed in the world of black defense technology who developed their own agenda independent of any formally established government. -Richard M. Dolan


I can sum up his paper in two words, I will just abbreviate, B.S. Also, I can sum him up in two words, Nut Job. Yikes, I dident think there REALLY were people as crazy as him!

I like my triangles equilaterial, but that's just me. You might be an isosceles man yourself.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Please see also the following thread.

The Case of Flying Triangles

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=40817

 

[russ_watters]

But there are true scientists working on MagnetoHydroDynamic (MHD) for instance, who claim this technology will one day provide such spacecraft . I find them reliable.

MagnetoHydroDynamic Drive (from The Hunt for Red October) is real, works, and has nothing at all to do with aircraft or spacecraft propulsion.

http://www.sanu.ac.yu/English/Shipbuilding/Tema4.htm

Your army keep many technologies secret. Even non-critical ones. This makes it difficult to say you cannot yet build this kind of devices. Other countries in the world also have a quite advanced and secrety spacecraft technologies.

Technology can't exceed the limitations of physics.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

But there are true scientists working on MagnetoHydroDynamic (MHD) for instance, who claim this technology will one day provide such spacecraft . I find them reliable.

Russ is correct. Where did you hear about this?

 

[russ_watters]

Russ is correct. Where did you hear about this?

When I googled for the link I posted, I found quite a number of crackpot sites claiming it would work for spacecraft . Apparently, they have no idea what it is.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

My question is, does the physics explanation offered in the third link hold up to scrutiny? Would this mechanism theoretically work as described? Please explain.

-Glenn

Do you mean this?

By no means am I an expert on the technology involved here. Those who say they are tell us that the TR-3B has something called a Magnetic Field Disruptor, which is a circular, highly pressurized, mercury-based plasma filled ring surrounding a rotatable crew compartment. The plasma is accelerated to extreme speeds which is said to result in "gravity disruption" and can neutralize the effect of gravity on mass by as much as 89 percent. This is not exactly antigravity, which provides a repulsive force, but for all intents and purposes makes the vehicle extremely light, with obvious correlations in performance, including acceleration in all directions.

During the Soviet era, Polish writer Stanislaw Lem was the most celebrated SF author in the Communist world... Solaris (1961) comes closer to being a traditional SF novel than most of his works, but its main thrust is still philosophical.

The new Gibarian tells Kelvin that Rheya will remain the same age, twenty years old. Phi-creatures are not immortal; they just don't age. This certainly has implications given that Kelvin, it appears, has an agenda different from the "divorce" desires of Snow and the cryptic plans of Sartorius to build the X-ray beamer to cover for constructing a magnetic field disruptor. Gibarian warns Kelvin that he is being betrayed, but again the reliability of anything is suspect.

http://www.wsu.edu/~hughesc/solaris.html

So, I guess the magnetic field disrupter does in fact work agains the Phi-creatures.

 

[Larry717]

Naudin's Lifters = Flying Triangles (small scale)

J. Naudin is well known for publicizing his triangle-shaped lifters. Perhaps the larger Flying Triangles use electric field effects and dielectric stresses to propel them.

I have checked a respectable website on UFO's concerning the Flying Triangles. A brief overview did not indicate whether or not the craft use electric propulsion.

In the early '90s, I contributed an article to the Electric Space Craft Journal on the Biefeld-Brown effect. The article was speculative, but I included a lot of physics about dielectrics, nonlinear electric fields, and internal forces at high voltages.

Naudin used air as a dielectric. Perhaps the Flying Triangles use a material with a greater dielectric constant and higher breakdown voltage.

Larry

 

[LURCH]

I think they are lighter-than-air craft, unpiloted and guided by satelite. If they are robotic reconisence vehicles (which do exist) that might explain why they are so frequently sited neard expressways and populated areas. They are programmed to look at things that might be of interest to a military or governmental inteligence gathering groupe. They would be attracted to motion and light. They should also be programmed to avoid being seen, but such robotic craft are always plagued with software problems in the early development stages. The sitings have probably helped the boys in "R & D" program the thing. We the general public are serving as their Beta Groupe.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I recently watched a very strange and unusual UFO program made in the mid 70's - The Overlords of the UFOs. I do believe this is a one-of-a-kind, even in the UFO world. But that aside, a picture of a craft absolutely identical to the black triangle chased by the Belgian Air Force [which was made a public event], photographed, and seen by countless witnesses throughout the 90's, is seen with the characteristic red light on the bottom, and the sleek, flat, triangular shape. This surprised me. I thought the triangles as such were a more recent evolution in the UFO lore. They must go back to at least 1970 - the story took place at least that early, maybe even in the mid 60's.

 

[PIT2]

I recently watched a very strange and unusual UFO program made in the mid 70's - The Overlords of the UFOs. I do believe this is a one-of-a-kind, even in the UFO world. But that aside, a picture of a craft absolutely identical to the black triangle chased by the Belgian Air Force [which was made a public event], photographed, and seen by countless witnesses throughout the 90's, is seen with the characteristic red light on the bottom, and the sleek, flat, triangular shape. This surprised me. I thought the triangles as such were a more recent evolution in the UFO lore. They must go back to at least 1970 - the story took place at least that early, maybe even in the mid 60's.

U don't happen to know the place where that sighting occurred? Did they show a real picture/video or was it a drawing or simulation?

Here are some sightings reported to MUFON-CES in Germany, which show identical triangles as in Belgium 1989/1990:

http://www.mufon-ces.org/img/type/type10.jpg
http://www.mufon-ces.org/img/type/type11.jpg
http://www.mufon-ces.org/img/type/type12.jpg

The one in Belgium apparently had periods of 40 G movement. I don't know what kind of technology is necessary for that? Anti-gravity?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I will check for a date and place. What was shown was a detailed drawing of what the witness reported.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Below is the same case. In the movie, it was mixed in with some earlier stuff, so the date was later than I thought - April 3rd, 1975. The movie was made in 1978. The picture shown in the movie was based on the descriptions given by the policemen involved. Also, this case is strangly similar to the recent Highland and Lebanon Illinois police chase.

April 3, 1975, 1:45 a.m. until sunrise. Southeast North Carolina (MUFON). Law enforcement officers in five counties pursued a V-shaped craft with two spotlights. First seen by Lumberton police, the object was traveling 200 to 300 feet above the ground, heading north along Interstate 95. At 1:50 a.m., two St. Pauls officers saw it take off from open ground 10 miles north of Lumberton. The object darted around, making right-angle turns and accelerating rapidly. It was brilliant and silent. During the night at least 100 sightings were reported, with at least nine police officers seeing eight craft similar to the V-shaped object reported earlier. One officer said it was 40 to 50 feet long and bathed in a blue tint. Residents of one town said the object's searchlights lit up the entire town. The police chief of White Lake reported that as he was driving, the object came down and lit up the whole area like daylight. He went on about 300 yards, then stopped and got out. The light from the object was so bright he had to look away. It was V-shaped, silent and lit up an area about 500 feet on either side of the road. The chief then got a powerful light of his own from his cruiser and shined it at the object. He blinked the light and the object blinked back. Then it suddenly went straight up in the air at about 200 miles an hour and disappeared.

http://www.cohenufo.org/BPratt%20Select%20TriCases.html

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I should mention that in the picture shown, a bright red beam of light was seen coming from the bottom center of the delta or triangular [not V] shaped craft.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

One more thought. If these are military craft the government seems to be going way out of its way to perpetuate the UFO myth. These things all but beg the police to chase them. In both events mentioned, the UFOs hovered or traveled very low, and at times directly over the road in full view of the pursuing vehicles. In Illinois, one of the officers said that it was about thirty feet above the road and right in front of him.

 

[PIT2]

If those triangles were seen in the 70's, then the 'secret government plane' theory becomes even more unlikely.

The Belgian airforce report also says:

The Air Force staff has been able to produce several hypotheses about the origin of these UFOs. The presence or the testing of B-2 or F-117 A (stealth), RPV (Remotely Piloted Vehicles), ULM (Ultra Light Motorized) and AWACS in the Belgian air space during the facts can be excluded.
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc408.htm

And i read this bit:

g. Though speeds greater than the sound barrier have been measured several times, not any bang has been noticed. Here also, no explanation can be given.

What kind of technology is required for that? Certainly its not something that we know humanity owns today(or 15yrs ago), is it?

 

[zoobyshoe]

One more thought. If these are military craft the government seems to be going way out of its way to perpetuate the UFO myth. These things all but beg the police to chase them. In both events mentioned, the UFOs hovered or traveled very low, and at times directly over the road in full view of the pursuing vehicles. In Illinois, one of the officers said that it was about thirty feet above the road and right in front of him.

There does seem to be a deliberate effort to be noticed which makes you wonder, "Why are they trying so hard to be seen?"

I always have had the same reaction to reports of cattle mutilations, that they seem to me to be designed to draw attention to themselves by being grotesque and alarming.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I really don't know what to think. There does seem to be good information - the police reports, and Belgian RADAR data and pilot reports - indicating that these BTs perform to levels beyond any known human technologies. But then again, if a concerted effort to hoax UFOs is underway by the military, then phony RADAR data could be transmitted to fool the tracking systems. This strategy is already used for the Stealth planes. We project false targets onto the systems in addition to having negligible RADAR signatures.

 

[DaveC426913]

The next few years will make for an interesting time in UFOlogy. With the advent of cellphone cameras, and their appearance in Joe Everyone's hands, we will begin to see either overwhelming evidence that can no longer be dismissed, or we will see the same attempts at hoaxery as we always have. Either way, it will provide good answers.

In this case, the absence of evidence will strongly suggest evidence of absence.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I agree that the video age is changing the field a bit, but we already have a ton of compelling videos. It is only assumed that we don't. We just can't prove that seemingly good videos aren't hoaxed, and this won't change. Also, many video cameras, hence videos, are low quality, so they are usually not very useful.

There is an interesting skeptical response to a quality video: Any video that good must be a hoax!

 

[PIT2]

Here is another interesting case with a flying triangle on january 5th 2000.

It was witnessed by civilians as well as 5 policemen.

There is also a video which has a nice computer animation of the triangle and has some of the police officers testify to what they observed.

Video: http://www.darrylbarkerproductions.com/EOR%20Preview%20DSL.wmv

Sources:

http://www.darrylbarkerproductions.com/LOPINOT.htm
http://www.darrylbarkerproductions.com/default2.htm

 

[Chronos]

The behavior exhibited by UFO's in witness accounts is truly baffling at times. What purpose do these bizarre behaviors serve? It's does not seem consistent with an intelligent pilot attempting to avoid or minimize detection. Could it be a deliberate effort to create confusion when they have a 'flat' or otherwise screw up? Could it be they are not intelligently piloted, perhaps merely rare natural phenomenon? While it's pretty obvious the great majority of sightings are misidentification of mundane objects, it's not easy to dismiss all the rest as hallucinations or hoaxes. I suppose some could be 'secret projects'.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Here is another interesting case with a flying triangle on january 5th 2000.

It was witnessed by civilians as well as 5 policemen.

There is also a video which has a nice computer animation of the triangle and has some of the police officers testify to what they observed.

This is the Lebanon/Highland Illinois sighting that I mentioned. I have family in Highland. Not long after this event I went back there for a family reunion. I got with my cousins, one being about narrow minded as they come, and I couldn't help but tease him a little: "David, I hear you guys have been chasing UFOs all over the place around here. What in the world are you guys doing?" Of course I'm dying inside since they don't know about my interests. David got quite indignant, crossed his arms, assumed a very defensive posture and said, "Well by God they're seeing something!" This was so funny since these would normally be the last people in the world to talk about UFOs. It was really fun to put them on the spot. After a few decades of Californian jokes, they had it coming!

 

[PIT2]

The next few years will make for an interesting time in UFOlogy. With the advent of cellphone cameras, and their appearance in Joe Everyone's hands, we will begin to see either overwhelming evidence that can no longer be dismissed, or we will see the same attempts at hoaxery as we always have. Either way, it will provide good answers.

In this case, the absence of evidence will strongly suggest evidence of absence.

Now that were talking about cellphone camera's, i came across this picture today:

http://www.circularsite.com/lichten/lichtzuil-italie.bmp

story behind the pic:

On 7 June 2003 at 17.30 h., a 17 year old young man (who wishes to remain anonymous) saw a ball of light at Montegranaro (Italy). The ball of light was emanating a beam of light onto the ground. He quickly took his mobile phone and shot two photographs with the built-in digital camera. After the light had disappeared, he examined the ground but found nothing unusual. The next day however, there were three aligned, different sized circles. He showed his photographs (still on his mobile phone) to Adriano Forgione, editor of the 'Hera' magazine, who was very impressed by the whole story. He said: "It's impossible to make a fake on the phone, I can tell you. For me, it is an original witness".

http://www.circularsite.com/licht6-eng.htm

I don't think this is evidence that can't be dismissed though.

 

[DaveC426913]

I agree that the video age is changing the field a bit, but we already have a ton of compelling videos. It is only assumed that we don't. We just can't prove that seemingly good videos aren't hoaxed, and this won't change. Also, many video cameras, hence videos, are low quality, so they are usually not very useful.

There is an interesting skeptical response to a quality video: Any video that good must be a hoax!

I was really talking more in terms of "# of hits" as oppsoed to quality of images. As just one example, we should get a rise in multiple recordings of the same siting, adding a virtually unprecedented layer of information.

 

[Overdose]

We are facing a situation in which we know that some triangles are ours (as the 1989 sighting by Chris Gibson demonstrates), some triangles are big, some are small, some do not appear to be "ours." If there is a single terrestrial explanation for this, it would have to be a shadow group, most likely among people deeply immersed in the world of black defense technology who developed their own agenda independent of any formally established government. -Richard M. Dolan


I can sum up his paper in two words, I will just abbreviate, B.S. Also, I can sum him up in two words, Nut Job. Yikes, I dident think there REALLY were people as crazy as him!

I like my triangles equilaterial, but that's just me. You might be an isosceles man yourself.

I really don't see what's crazy about it, yes he's speculating, but based on the good and reliable information that's out there, it really isn't that far out of a conclusion.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I was really talking more in terms of "# of hits" as oppsoed to quality of images. As just one example, we should get a rise in multiple recordings of the same siting, adding a virtually unprecedented layer of information.

That's true. I guess my thinking is that you make a good point, but also I can't help but think of sightings such as the Mexico City events a few years ago, where many videos were taken in conjunction with eyewitness testimony, but with no conclusive results to be found. Still, I guess that if there really are ET UFOs, eventually one is bound to show up in the right place at the right time. I know of events from history in which hundreds or even thousands of witnesses reportedly saw the same craft(s), not to mention the first sighting of the Phoenix lights episode, so one good showing at a football game or a company picnic and we may have the solution to all of this.

As for faking a cell phone pictures, I really doubt this is so hard to fake. For example, how about taking a picture of a picture?

Bruce Maccabee argues the best photographic evidence would be a 3D shot. He said that there is one way that he knows that one could be faked, but he's not saying what that might be, and I think he said that he could tell if this was done.

 

[DaveC426913]

As for faking a cell phone pictures, I really doubt this is so hard to fake. For example, how about taking a picture of a picture?

Yes, but you're still thinking in terms of individuals, or a single group of cohorts. We should start seeing incidents where many people unrelated and phyiscally separated from each other take shots of the same events. (Not that this has not happened already...)

Or we won't. Which will begin answering some questions too.


As our techology advances, so will our ability to shed light on these mysteries. One might argue that technology will also advance in making more elaborate hoaxes, but somewhow I don't think that will happen. More elaborate hoaxes will eventually be too difficult to pull off with the low budgets that hoaxers have available. So far, other than some wacky publicity, no one stands to gain from UFO sightings, so there's no reason for more money (such as what might be offered by private corporations) to be put into them. The technology to uncover hoaxes will eventually outpace the technology to stage hoaxes.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Sorry, the bit about the cell phones was out of context. I meant this in response to PIT2's single cell phone picture. It is argued that this would be impossible to fake.

 

[PIT2]

I read this newsstory today:

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15290518%255E2862,00.html

In it, there are two lines that say:

Tim Webster, 23, of Upwey, admits he was looking forward to an alien abduction as he photographed the lights on his phone-camera.

Local pizza shop manager Ned Bulic also took phone pictures and said: "They were definitely alien UFOs. Nothing else could have moved like that."

I hope to see these pictures online soon.
In the story it is said that another person also took video footage.