Is the Blue Book Archive online a reliable source for government UFO documents?

[danielg]

Blue Book Archive
http://www.bluebookarchive.org





Daniel G.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Nice catch Mr. G.

 

[danielg]

Nice catch Mr. G.

Couldn't wait any longer

Daniel G.

 

[polyb]

So have you guys found anything conclusive?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Conclusive in what sense?

 

[polyb]

Conclusive in a spidey sense!

Just kidding, no anything that would be conclusive in the respect of UFO's being more than the long list of things that skeptics and debunkers purport, ie that these phenomena are real and are controlled by ETs!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

See post #6 in the UFO Napster above for more information.

The opinions on Blue Book investigations vary greatly. Beyond a doubt, some scientists involved were very impressed with the facts and information related to some investigations, others were not. Many scientists felt that the summary conclusions stated publicly were not representitive of specific cases that they managed. That said, here is the official USAF statement.

U.S. Air Force Fact Sheet
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS AND AIR FORCE PROJECT BLUE BOOK

From 1947 to 1969, the Air Force investigated Unidentified Flying Objects under Project Blue Book. The project, headquartered at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, was terminated Dec. 17, 1969. Of a total of 12,618 sightings reported to Project Blue Book, 701 remained "unidentified."

The decision to discontinue UFO investigations was based on an evaluation of a report prepared by the University of Colorado entitled, "Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects;" a review of the University of Colorado's report by the National Academy of Sciences; previous UFO studies and Air Force experience investigating UFO reports during 1940 to 1969.

As a result of these investigations, studies and experience gained from investigating UFO reports since 1948, the conclusions of Project Blue Book were:

No UFO reported, investigated and evaluated by the Air Force was ever an indication of threat to our national security;

There was no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as "unidentified" represented technological developments or principles beyond the range of modern scientific knowledge; and

There was no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as "unidentified" were extraterrestrial vehicles.

With the termination of Project Blue Book, the Air Force regulation establishing and controlling the program for investigating and analyzing UFOs was rescinded. Documentation regarding the former Blue Book investigation was permanently transferred to the Modern Military Branch, National Archives and Records Service, and is available for public review and analysis.

Since the termination of Project Blue Book, nothing has occurred that would support a resumption of UFO investigations by the Air Force. Given the current environment of steadily decreasing defense budgets, it is unlikely the Air Force would become involved in such a costly project in the foreseeable future.

There are a number of universities and professional scientific organizations that have considered UFO phenomena during periodic meetings and seminars. A list of private organizations interested in aerial phenomena may be found in "Encyclopedia of Associations," published by Gale Research. Interest in and timely review of UFO reports by private groups ensures that sound evidence is not overlooked by the scientific community. Persons wishing to report UFO sightings should be advised to contact local law enforcement agencies.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I should add that Allen Hynek, the chief science advisor to Project Bluebook, the originator of the swamp gas explanation for UFOs, and father of many popular debunking arguments, later admitted that this posture was required by the project's objective, and he is now viewed as the father of modern ufology.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

"During the years that I have been its consultant, the Air Force has consistently argued that UFO's were either hoaxes, hallucinations or misinterpretations of natural phenomena. For the most part I would agree with the Air Force. As a professional astronomer--I am chairman of the department of astronomy at Northwestern University--I have had no trouble explaining the vast majority of the reported sightings. But I cannot explain them all. Of the 15,000 cases that have come to my attention, several hundred are puzzling, and some of the puzzling incidents, perhaps one in 25, are bewildering. I have wanted to learn much more about these cases than I have been able to get from either the reports or the witnesses...Getting at the truth of "flying saucers" has been extraordinarily difficult because the subject automatically engenders such instantaneous reactions and passionate beliefs. Nearly all of my scientific colleagues, I regret to say, have scoffed at the reports of UFO's as so much balderdash, although this was a most unscientific reaction since virtually none of them had ever studied the evidence. Until recently my friends in the physical sciences wouldn't even discuss UFO's with me. The subject, in fact, rarely came up. My friends were obviously mystified as to how I, a scientist, could have gotten mixed up with "flying saucers" ---Saturday Evening Post: 1966

-- Dr. J. Allen Hynek: Professor emeritus and chairman of the astronomy department at Northwestern University. Earlier, he was director of the Lundheimer Astronomical Research Center at Northwestern. He has written astronomy books and articles that have appeared in numerous science journals, as well as an astronomy column for Science Digest magazine. He was chief scientist for NASA's satellite tracking program, and for twenty years was the scientific consultant to the United States Air Force in the investigation of the UFO phenomenon. He is credited with coining the phrase "close encounters of the third kind" and was Steven Spielberg's technical consultant on the film of that name. Dr. Hynek died in April 1986.

 

[lucien86]

H...m Nice idea but its pretty incomplete (probably).
I've actually read some of the real Blue book material second-hand and there's a lot missing from here.

First the UFO bit is mostly completely separate from the bit I read/was told about, but I have done a quick search on what's there and I didn't find any of the things I would expect.


These are some of the things supposedly held by Project Blue Book

Physics & other science - banned, hidden, stolen, and classified.

The Hoover Files, - a completely uncensored history of the 19th and 20th century, supposed to contain an archive of Hitler’s private papers and personal effects, legend has it this includes Hitler’s own cryogenically frozen body.

UFO (Flying Saucer) - not aliens but how to build a UFO, speculative physics - the authors include Einstein and Oppenheimer and others. (also includes all the secrets of Nuclear bomb physics)

The FBI psychic program - this is the one everyone wants. used as an umbrella to hide all the FBI's old secrets. Things like a map of government corruption and who killed Kennedy. The psychic program itself is a colossally valuable document, it is THE definitive scientific work on psychic phenomena, its also so classified that even the president can't read it.


The Blue Book archives are supposed to be hidden in special sealed bunkers, designed to be opened after a hundred years. Another legend is that the bunkers were defended by nuclear bombs designed to destroy the entire bunker if it was opened improperly.
That is not the only legend of course, there are many others - that the bunkers were never finished, that Hoover stole the bombs, that Hoover had a bomb placed under the Pentagon in case the military betrayed America, even that the nuclear bombs were set off when the CIA destroyed the old FBI in the late 1970's.

I would like to point out that the fall of the old FBI was simultaneous with the rise of the new right, and this was no coincidence. If you’ve never heard of any of this remember the communist slogan .. "history doesn’t exist."!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The last post is nonsense. The original bluebook documents can be found at the Library of Congress.

 

[danielg]

Conclusive in a spidey sense!

Just kidding, no anything that would be conclusive in the respect of UFO's being more than the long list of things that skeptics and debunkers purport, ie that these phenomena are real and are controlled by ETs!

Does anybody already recognized what time span is covered by the available microfilm rolls at www.bluebookarchive.org[/url] ? This is the only [url=http://www.sspc.jpn.org/ufo/data/bluebookmicrofilm.html]list[/URL] I found so far regarding details about the microfilms...


Edit:
Ok, I checked myself: Everything [b][COLOR=Red]red[/COLOR][/b] [I]is[/I] covered by the [url]www.bluebookarchive.org[/url]. Roll [B]91[/B], which is not in this list is also available. INSTRUCTIONS: Roll 1 means "[T1206-1]" at the archive, Roll 87 "[T1206-87]" and so on...


Daniel G.

[CENTER][SIZE=4]Project BLUE BOOK Microfilm Rolls Index[/SIZE]


CASE FILES OF INDIVIDUAL SIGHTINGS
[code]
Roll
No. File No. Date Location
[COLOR=Red]1 Index 1 - 54 Summer 1947 - 7/9/47 Information File - Midland, MI
2 55 - 179 7/9/47 - 7/24/48 Grand Falls, Newfoundland - AL[/COLOR]

3 180 - 271 7/26/48 - December Ehamblee, GA - Kirtland AFB, NM
1948
4 271 -342 December 1948 - 4/9/49 Kirtland AFB, NM - Rockford, IL
5 343 - 443 4/9/49 - 6/26/49 Toledo, OH - Pennsylvania, OH
6 444 - 599 6/27/49 - 11/25/49 Kirtland AFB, NM - Mt. Palomar, FL
7 600 - 848 11/27/49 - 12/6/50 McIntosh, NM - Ft. Myers, FL
8 849 - 1011 12/9/50 - 12/9/51 London, England - Andrews AFB, MD
9 1012 - 1187 12/10/51 - 5/7/52 Riverside, CA - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
10 1188 - 1376 5/8/52 - 7/1/52 31.20N70.00W(Atlantic) - Phoenix, AZ
11 1377 - 1494 7/2/52 - 7/19/52 Tremonton, UT - Elkins Park, PA
12 1495 - 1673 7/19/52 - 7/28/52 Rock Island, IL - Washington, DC
13 1673 - 1836 7/28/52 - 8/5/52 Washington, DC - Westover AFB, MA
14 1837 - 1999 8/5/52 - 8/27/52 Malaya - Birmingham, AL
15 2000 - 2167 8/27/52 - 10/15/52 Baltimore, MD - Bay of Bengal
16 2168 - 2300 10/16/52 - 12/27/52 Korea - Canadian, TX
17 2301 - 2505 12/28/52 - 3/19/53 Albuquerque, NM - Harmon AFB, Newfoundland
18 2506 - 2615 3/19/53 - 7/2/53 Crystal Lake, OH - Tinker AFB, OK
19 2616 - 2792 7/3/53 - 11/16/53 Fremont, WI - Catalina, CA
20 2793 - 3024 11/7/53 - 5/24/54 New York, NY - Richmond, IN
21 3025 - 3287 June 1954 - 10/29/54 Mooresille, IN - Azores
22 3288 - 3499 10/31/54 - 4/16/55 Calcutta, India - Los Angels, CA
23 3500 - 3740 4/17/55 - 9/1/55 Burtonwood, England - Hawthorne, CA
24 3741 - 4025 9/2/55 - 3/20/56 Swquin, MA - Fairhaven, MA
25 4026 - 4291 3/20/56 - 8/13/56 Andrews AFB, MD - Staunton, VA
26 4292 - 4541 8/13/56 - 11/27/56 Hermanville, MI - Dayton, OH
27 4542 - 4751 11/28/56 - 5/7-8/57 Washington, DC - Macon, GA
28 4752 - 4960 June 1957 - 9/20/57 Uruguay - Montauk, NY & Benson, PA
29 4961 - 5169 9/20/57 - 11/6/57 San Antonio, TX - United States, 21 reports
30 5170 - 5385 11/6/57 - 11/21/57 Seoul, Korea - Houm, AL
31 5386 - 5631 11/21/57 -1/14/58 Silver Springs, MD - Dayton, OH
31 5632 - 5810 1/14/58 - 5/14/58 Houston, TX - Farmington, NM
33 5811 - 6057 5/15/58 - 9/11-13/58 Caracas, Venezuela - Japan & Western States

34 6058 - 6210 9/17/58 - 12/13-14/58 35.00N48.00W(Atlantic) - East Coast US
(Atlantic)

35 6219 - 6335 12/13 - 14/58 - East Coast US (Atlantic) - Kunsan AB, Korea
4/16/59
36 6336 - 6522 4/16/59 - 9/24/59 Tuba City, AZ - NC. & VA
37 6523 - 6679 9/25/59 - 3/20/60 Burington & Proctor, VT - Monroe, WI
38 6680 - 6854 3/22/60 - 7/18/60 Hawaiian Islands - Mineral Wells, TX
39 6855 - 6938 7/18/60 - 8/31/60 Verona, Italy - Chicago, IL
40 6939 - 7128 8/31/60 - 11/23/60 Glenview, IL - Midwest U.S.
41 7129 - 7321 11/23/60 - Spring 1961 Kansas City, KS - Kemah, TX
42 7322 - 7508 3/14/61 - 7/19/61 San Diego, CA - Hamilton, OH
43 7509 - 7641 7/20/61 - 9/20/61 39.30N 12.58W (Pacific) - Lincoln, NH
44 7641 - 7818 9/20/61 - 2/25/62 Lincoln, NH - Kotzebue, AK

45 7819 - 7970 2/26/62 - July 1962 9.14N90.32W(Panama Canal) - North Brunswick,
NJ
46 7971 - 8180 July 1962 - 10/22/62 Glenside, PA - 65.20N28/50W(Atlantic)
47 8181 - 8366 10/23/62 - 5/26/63 60.14N13.36W(Atlantic) - Gulf of Mexico
48 8367 - 8521 5/28/63 - 8/13/63 Philadelphia, PA - Borger, TX
49 8513 - 8700 8/13/63 - 2/23/64 Smithland, IA - Philadelphia, PA

50 8701 - 8848 2/24/64 - 5/30/64 California & Oregon - COMANVSUP for
Antarctica
51 8849 - 8968 5/30/64 - 7/25-26/64 OrangeVille, CA - Hamilton, MT
52 8969 - 9148 7/27/64 - 10/30/64 Norwich, NY - Yorkshire, England
53 9148 - 9312 10/30/64 - 3/12-13/65 Yorkshire, England - Brooklyn, NY
54 9313 - 9462 3/13/65 - 7/4/65 Rochester, NY - Taiwan
55 9463 - 9647 7/4/65 - 8/2/65 Bloomsburg, PA - Albuquerque, NM
56 9648 - 9786 8/2/65 - 8/15/65 Florence, AZ - Thackery, OH
57 9787 - 9902 8/15/65 - 9/4/65 Dayton, OH - Pittsburgh, PA
58 9903 - 10043 9/4/65 - 10/27/65 Ketchikan, AK - Newton Center, MA
59 10044 - 10216 10/27/65 - 3/1/66 Cloverdale, OH - Stafford Springs, CT
60 10217 - 10345 3/1/66 - 3/31/66 Beloit, WI - Uttica, NY
61 10346 - 10479 3/31/66 - 4/22/66 Rehoboth, MA - Middlebury, VT
62 10480 - 10622 4/22-29/66 - 6/5/66 Leeburg, FL - Dexter, OH
63 10623 - 10746 6/6/66 - 7/19/66 Sahanna, OH - Houston, TX
64 10765 - 10870 7/19/66 - 8/18/66 Del Paso Hts, CA - Xenia & Dayton, OH
65 10871 - 10982 8/18/66 - 10/1/66 Deluth, MN - Dayton, OH
66 10983 - 11106 10/2/66 - 10/30/66 Colorad Springs, CO - Youngsville, NY
67 11107 - 11245 10/30/66 - 12/66 West Chester, PA - Additional Sightings
68 11246 - 11357 1967 - 2/12/67 Los Angeles, CA - Deluth, MN

69 11358 - 11468 2/12/67 - 3/1-4/67 Cheltenham, MD - Additional Sightings
1/2

70 11468 1/2 - 3/1-4/67 - 4/1/67 Additional Sightings - Tueson, AZ
11593
71 11594 - 11699 4/1/67 - 4/30/67 South Wellington, TX - Newburg, NY
72 11700 - 11801 4/30/67 - 6/20/67 Austin, TX - Denver, IA
73 11802 - 11909 6/20/67 - 6/31/67 Dayton, OH - Indianapolis, IN
74 11909A - 12010 6/31/67 - 9/21/67 Indianapolis, IN - Nashville, TN
75 12011 - 12082 9/21-29/67 - 10/24/67 Additional Sightings - Kettering, OH
76 12083 - 12170 10/24/67 - 12/5-11/67 Greenville, OH - Additional Sightings
77 12171 - 12270 12/12/67 - 3/6/67 Tyler, TX - Traverse, City, MI
78 12271 - 12328 March-April - 4/21/67 Additional Sightings - Kettering, OH
79 12329 - 12381-E 4/23/67 - July 1967 San Bernardino, CA - Dayton, OH

80 12381-F - 12452 July 1967 - 7/15/68 Dayton, OH - Yellow Springs, OH
1/2
81 1245 1/2 - 12545 7/15/68 - 10/26/68 Yellow Springs, OH - Manchester, NH
82 12546 - 12628 10/26/68 - 2/10/69 Boone, NC - St. Louis,. Mi
83 12629 12711 2/10/69 - 8/24/69 Pine Bluff, AR - Dayton, OH

84 12712 - 12750 8/26/69 - December Dayton, OH - Round Lake, IL
1969
[/code]

PROJECT (ADMINISTRATIVE) FILES
[code]
Roll [COLOR=Red][b]Administrative Files: Box 1[/b][/color]
No.
[COLOR=Red]Technical Report, "Unidentified Aerial Objects, Project SIGN," Feb. 1949: 74 pp.
Technical Report, "Unidentified Flying Objects, Project GRUDGE," Aug. 1949: 408 pp.
Final Report, Project TWINKLE, 27 Nov. 1951: 25 pp.
Status Reports and Special Reports, GRUDGE - BLUE BOOK
Report 1: 33 pp.
Report 2: 29 pp.
85 Report 3: 11 pp.
Report 4: 19 pp.
Report 5: 17 pp.
Report 6: 20 pp.
Report 7: 28 pp.
Report 8: 40 pp.
Report 9: 46 pp.
Report 10: 81 pp.
Report 11: 34 pp.
Report 12: 35 pp.
(All reports are Status Reports; Report 1 includes Special Report 1)

[/COLOR]----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[COLOR=Red]

[b]Administrative Files: Box 2[/b]

Staff Study - 1952 (Capt. Ruppelt): 49 pp..
AISS folder (Miscellaneous dates): 58 pp.
AFOIN Plan on UFO's ( May 1957 - Feb. 1958): 11pp.
Staff Study - Dec, 1958: 36 pp.
FTD UFO Panel (1959 - 1960): 25 pp.
Review of Motion Picture "Unidentified Flying Objects" (1960): 17 pp. plus newspaper clipping
Staff Study, 28 Sept. 1959: 58 pp.
Proposed Transfer to SAFOI (Dec. 1959 - April 1960): 20 pp.
Proposed Transfer to ARDC (Feb.1960 - April 1962): 15 pp.
Deputy Director File Jan. 1961: 39 pp.
Untitled folder containing copies of Air Force Regulation 80-17 w/Revisions (1966 - 1968) :11 pp.
86 Summary to Project BLUE BOOK (Jan. 1956): 3 pp.
First Status Report Project STORK (Preliminary Work for Special Report #14), April 25, 1952: 102 pp.
Special Report No. 14 (May 5, 1955): 315 pp.
Correspondence and miscellaneous file relating to Special Report No. 14: 54 pp.


[b]Administrative Files: Box 3[/b]

Dr. Fitts' Reports (April 1949): 17 pp.
USAF "Aids to Identification of Flying Objects" (1957): 57 pp.
Untitled folder of photographs, containing about 50-60 photos, mostly of USAF personnel, with many duplicates
Advisory Panel on the Scientific Use of Balloons Meeting 15 Nov. 1965: 78 pp.
Sub-Committee Hearling, March 1966 (USAF SAB): 40 pp
S.A.B. and Recommendations 1966: 31 pp.
USAF Test Group: UFO Material 19 Sept. 1966 - 25 Oct. 1969: 30 pp.
Foreign Technology Division: "Soviet Effort to Contact Extraterrestrial Life," 3 Feb. 1967: 67 pp.
[/COLOR]----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[COLOR=Red]
Project BLUE BOOK (USAF SAB, 3 Feb. 1966): 137 pp.


[b]Administrative Files: Box 4[/b]

ATIC UFO Briefing 1 April 1952: 44 pp.
Press Conference - Gen. Samford 1952: 42 pp.
Capt. Ruppelt ADC Briefing 24 Jan. 1953: 29 pp.
Standard BLUE BOOK Briefing, 9 Feb. 1953: 18 pp.
Indoctrination D/I Representatives, 18-19 Feb. 1957: 2 pp.
McClellan Sub-Committee Hearings, Feb. - March 1958: 4 pp.
20 June 1958 Briefing, Representative Henderson: 16 pp.
8 Aug. 1958 McCormack Sub-Committee Briefing: 30 pp.
Proposed Hearing 1961 (Including Mr. Hine's Visit): 17 pp.
11-15 July 1960: Congressional Briefings (Mr. R. Smart): 21pp.
Eglin AFB Briefing by Dr. Hynek (27 April 1960): 39 pp.
Briefing AFIT by Lt. Col. Friend, 9 Feb. 1961: 6 pp.
87 UFO Briefing - Troy Ohio, 14 March 1961: 6 pp.
UFO Briefing 29 Oct. 1962 - 30 Jan. 1963: 40 pp.
FTD Correspondence Folder, 10 July - 1 Aug. 1963: 27 pp.
The UFO Program to the American Society of Newspaper Editors, 22 April 1967: 21 pp.
Briefing 7 July 1967 to Gen. Garland: 24 pp.
August 1952 Air Intelligence Digest Article (Ruppelt): 34 pp.
AVRO Car Folder: 8 pp.
UFO Policy Meeting, Feb. 1959: 27 pp. (Note: All materials this folder marked "For Official Use Only")
ATI School Training Lecture, "The UFO Program" (1957): 54 pp.
Armstrong Circle Theater, "UFO: Enigma of the Skies," Broadcast of 22 Jan. 1958: 78 pp.
Col. Tacker Radio Interview, Dec. 1960, on "Washington Viewpoint:" 13 pp.
Committee on Science and Astronautics (1961): 150 pp. publications @ 2 pp. per reproduction; 6 pp. other material
Library of Congress Legislative Reference Service: "Fact about UFO's" 5 May 1966: 48 pp.
D.O.D. News Releases and Fact Sheet (1952-1968): 185 pp.[/COLOR]
[/code]

INSPECTOR GENERAL, USAF - OFFICE OF SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS (OSI)
[code]
Roll No. File Date or Location
88 Chronological Files 9/9/48 - 8/31/49
Chronological Files 9/14/49 - 10/5/62
District 1 - Westover AFB, MA
89
District Files, 1949-67 District 2 - New York, NY
District 3 - Harrisburg, PA
[COLOR=Red]District 3 - Harrisburg, PA
District 4 - Bolling AFB, DC
District 5 - Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, OH
District 6 - Robins AFB, Robins Field, GA
District 7 - MacDill AFB, Tampa, FL
District 8 - Maxwell AFAB, AL
District 9 - Barksdale AFB, LA
District 10 - Kelly AFB, Kelly Field, TX
District 11 - Tinker AFB, Oklahoma City, OK
90 District Files, 1949-67
District 12 - Scott AFB, IL
District 13 - Offutt AFB, Omaha, NE
District 14 - Lowry AFB, Denver, CO
District 15 - Great Falls, AFB, MT
District 16 - Hill AFB, Hill Field, UT
District 17 - Kirtland AFB, NM
District 18 - USAF Specialized Depot, Maywood, CA
District 19 - Fairfield - Suisun AFB, CA
District 20 - McChord AFB, WA
[/COLOR]----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[COLOR=Red]
District 21 - Langley AFB, Langley Field, VA
District 22 - Griffiss AFB, Rome, NY
District 23 - Carswell AFB, FT. Worth, TX
District Files, 1949-67 District 24 - Chicago, IL
District 25 - Selfridge AFB, MI
District 26 - No Records
92 District 27 - Ramey AFB, PR
Alaskan Air Command
Caribbean Command
Far East Air Force
Overseas Commands, 1949- 68
USAF in Europe
Millitary Air Transport Service
NewFoundland Base Command[/COLOR]
[/code]


PHOTOGRAPHS
[code]
Roll No. File Date
[COLOR=Red]93 Case File Nos. 10 - 4715 6/24/47 - 5/2/57[/COLOR]
94 Case File Nos. 4750 - 12615 OSI Files 5/2/57 - February 1969
[/code][/CENTER]

 

[polyb]

But until there is conclusive, emperical evidence there is no way that you can prove that UFOs driven by ETs exist and this will always be to the discreditment of serious researchers. Of course the crackpots don't mind at all!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Who said that anyone is trying to prove anything. When you asked if we had found anything conclusive, I posted the best answer going. You chose to make this about ET. Now who's the crackpot?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Crackpot is an expression applied to claims, or interpretations of evidence, not honest, and in the case of Bluebook, highly qualified investigation of reported phenomena. Many people get this confused.

 

[danielg]

Just in case not everybody knows it - this may be interesting in connection with 'Blue Book' as well:

http://www.cufos.org/BB_Unknowns.html


Daniel G.

 

[polyb]

Who said that anyone is trying to prove anything. When you asked if we had found anything conclusive, I posted the best answer going. You chose to make this about ET. Now who's the crackpot?

Whoa there Ivan, I was not trying to suggest that you were a 'crackpot'. I humbly apologize if you took it that way. My bad.

I guess the problem I have with the subject is that there are so many crackpot/opportunists involved and it is nearly impossible to distinguish between the two. Let's face it, there is obviously money to be made in this stuff on the one hand and on the other there are some seriously disturbed people out there. It bugs me that serious research on the subject is routinely regulated to the crackpot arena. There is phenomena happening but it gets murky because of the fringe catagaory that it is and thus does not get the research that might explain it.

Now excuse me while I phone home to alpha centaurie or was that zeta reticulie. Can I borrow your cell phone?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Okay, fair enough. I wasn't taking it personally but the subject of UFOs is not automatically indicative of pseudoscience, crackpotism, or ET, in spite of much of the popular following and internet garbage. Most people who haven't taken a serious look at the subject usually don't realize this. Your post led me to believe that you were lumping this all together. Of course, ET is always lurking around the UFO literature waiting to show his ugly little gray face. I don't know if we can kill him or not but for now I assume that we can. I don't know how, but it might all make sense one day without the need for ET.

The idea that a highly energetic phenomenon, like ball lightning, might induce hallucinations that account for some reports, is a tempting one. This combined with experimental craft, hoaxes, and maybe even a deliberate attempt by our military and the Soviets to perpetuate the myth... I can still thinks of ways to explain it all without ET and without ignoring highly compelling accounts and reports. On the other hand, it is only the most rigorous approach that allows the luxury of doubt in some cases. I'll tell you, I spent an hour on the phone with Col Halt one night - from the Rendlesham Forest/Bentwaters incident. When I hung up, I'd bet that I just sat and stared at the wall for nearly an hour. I hit him with hard and pointed questions designed to dig out any evidence of something more natural than described. He insisted that there was an intelligence involved. He was also very convincing. At the least, he seems to believe what he is saying.

Dunno...

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I was thinking and remembered one funny thing about Halt: He actually backed away from ET explanations. He insisted on intelligence, but not ET intelligence - an interesting distinction. Then, I remembered reading about how plasma can seemingly mimic intelligent behavior. I keep meaning to find the author who discussed this... He was a plasma physicist, IIRC, and he wrote about how plasmas can seem to act with intent. Of course he meant this wrt our perception of things, and not that plasma is alive [I hope ], but in his many years of work he was quite struck by this.

The movie "Backflash" claimed that Fireman often say this about their own encounters with plasma. I don't know if that was genuine or not.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Not to completely derail this from any Bluebook discussions [sorry Mr. G], but since I brought it up, here is Halt's report. If anyone want to get into that story, since this came long after Bluebook, please start another thread.
http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/foi/ufo/dep_ba1.pdf

 

[danielg]

I began to transcribe PROJECT GRUDGE - STATUS REPORT NO. 1 - 30 Nov 51 from the source www.bluebookarchive.org at

http://www.ufodb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39


Daniel G.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Wow danielg, great work!

Are you sure that you're not duplicating someone else's efforts? Just a thought... In either case, I'm impressed!

 

[lucien86]

Incidentally I don't believe in UFO's. But I do believe aliens could visit us at any time (say within + - 10,000 years of now). Like Douglas Adams said - space is big, very big.

Nonsense deleted by Ivan.

 

[lucien86]

Sorry I admit I said some pretty embarrassing things back then. But you do have to be pretty credulous to believe they would just let any of this stuff out if it were real. They have a history of decades of lies and no reason at all to tell the truth. If nothing else a lot of it would be extremely interesting to Americas enemies.