So how many people in your school were pretty stupid?

[KingNothing]

Actually, the real question was too big for the subject. It is:

"How many people in your physics and chemistry (and other science) classes just memorized equations, and actually had no idea how it worked or what the equations meant?"

For me, around 50%. Which is pretty funny when the teacher throws a wrench in a test and asks for a logical explanation of whatever the unit is about.

 

[franznietzsche]

Actually, the real question was too big for the subject. It is:

"How many people in your physics and chemistry (and other science) classes just memorized equations, and actually had no idea how it worked or what the equations meant?"

For me, around 50%. Which is pretty funny when the teacher throws a wrench in a test and asks for a logical explanation of whatever the unit is about.

I can count on my two hands the number of people I've met who have not been utter morons. Can't say the same for the number who were utter morons.

Of course, the fact that i can count to 1023 on my two hands is entirely irrelevant.

 

[Bladibla]

If we mean 'dumb' by only just memorizing the questions, working ONLY through past papers to get through tests.. then i'd say pretty much all of our school is like that.

I won't say I'm the best at my subjects (because I am not) but i find that investigating in the specific subject into more detail extra-curricular, understanding the work, THEN doing the questions much more fun and demanding. But hey, when is life not demanding?

 

[vikasj007]

i completely agree. most(all) of my classmates are ready to cram. all they are interested in is something that will get them good marks. they hardly think beyond the textbooks.

though i try to think beyond textbook, but i must admit that it always results in me getting less marks than others.



does this mean that what they are doing is better?

 

[Bladibla]

i completely agree. most(all) of my classmates are ready to cram. all they are interested in is something that will get them good marks. they hardly think beyond the textbooks.

though i try to think beyond textbook, but i must admit that it always results in me getting less marks than others.



does this mean that what they are doing is better?

You must be prepared to sacrifice all your time for the curricular activities AND private research.

 

[dextercioby]

Usually,in my HS and even later in college,most of the girls are both pretty & stupid...They can be called "pretty stupid",huh...?

Daniel.

 

[Galileo]

"How many people in your physics and chemistry (and other science) classes just memorized equations, and actually had no idea how it worked or what the equations meant?"

Pretty much all of them.

Standard way of making a HS physics exam:

After reading the question and getting an idea about what topic it is in, get out your booklet with all the formulas.

Look at the symbols in the question:
"Hmm, there an x and a $\delta$ and this swirly $\xi$ thingy."

Then look at the formulas in your book and compare:
"Hey, this equation has a swirly thingy in it too!"

Plug in the given numbers and use your best judgement which number belongs to which symbol.

End result is usually a 5.5 or a 6, which is sufficient. An 5 is not so bad too, because it can be compensated by learning lots of german/french/english words anyway.

High school education...

 

[Gale]

Usually,in my HS and even later in college,most of the girls are both pretty & stupid...They can be called "pretty stupid",huh...?

Daniel.

thats not very fair. statements like that are why i used to never want to be smart...

At my school there were a lot of kids like that, but my physics/calc teacher was much more about understanding, so it was harder to just memorize formulas and do well in our class. that's also why i really liked math tutoring. It gave me the opportunity to help kids really understand the things they were learning.

 

[dextercioby]

But u do agree that beautiful girls which are also smart are pretty rare,huh...?That's what i meant...

Daniel.

 

[loseyourname]

But u do agree that beautiful girls which are also smart are pretty rare,huh...?That's what i meant...

Daniel.

Beautiful females and intelligent females are both rare. The same goes for beautiful males and intelligent males. It only follows that any person that is both beautiful and intelligent is going to be even more rare. Which is why Gale and I are so exceptional.

 

[Gale]

But u do agree that beautiful girls which are also smart are pretty rare,huh...?That's what i meant...

Daniel.

Ooook... i was going to reply with something very long.. but i realized it was pretty off topic. No i don't agree that beautiful girls who're also smart are rare. I believe people who can see girls as both beautiful and smart are rare.

 

[Gale]

Beautiful females and intelligent females are both rare. The same goes for beautiful males and intelligent males. It only follows that any person that is both beautiful and intelligent is going to be even more rare. Which is why Gale and I are so exceptional.

HAHAH... thanks... flattered... but really, i don't think it should be such a big deal about beauty and brains. a lot of people have said some mean things about my looks, and about as many have belittled the way i think. Its all in the eye of the beholder. Really.

 

[loseyourname]

HAHAH... thanks... flattered... but really, i don't think it should be such a big deal about beauty and brains. a lot of people have said some mean things about my looks, and about as many have belittled the way i think. Its all in the eye of the beholder. Really.

I have no clue what you look like. I was just trying to be clever.

 

[Gale]

I have no clue what you look like. I was just trying to be clever.

Oh gee thanks then... that makes me feel super good. My pic's in the photo thread, i just posted some recent ones. Thats still besides the point though.

 

[loseyourname]

Oh gee thanks then... that makes me feel super good. My pic's in the photo thread, i just posted some recent ones.

Awesome. You look short. I'm in there at #879.

 

[KingNothing]

Wow, way to abduct a thread. Anyway, I just always thought it was pathetic when people would memorize things just to get good grades.

Like for instance in AP chemistry, there was some girl who was known to be an 'A' student. I got a slightly better grade than her on the test and she was getting upset. She was saying how I don't deserve it because I don't work hard and I didn't study my formulas (which I don't work hard and didnt study). The first question on the test was 'in an Ideal gas, how does raising the pressure generally affect the temperature?'...so I covered her test and asked her the exact same question out loud (i had seen that she made up numbers and worked through the entire ideal gas law) and she just said something to the effect of "How should I know that without working it out?"

I just walked away. No one else really got it (they all functioned basically the same as her) although I heard my chemistry teacher start laughing in the background.

I don't see what good memorizing does. I've helped a lot of people with their science, and a lot of them get mad when I try to help them truly understand it. It's a lot more important, for example, to know how to figure out that D=.5at^2 than it is to just memorize it.

 

[loseyourname]

I do a lot of tutoring myself and I've given up on trying to get people to actually understand what they study. Honestly, I just give them shortcuts and advise them on easy ways to memorize formulae and recognize where they should be used. It allows them to get passing grades, which is what they wanted from me in the first place. People like this are not going to be scientists in the future anyway. Just let them get this requirement out of the way and move on to the subjects they are better at.

 

[Pseudo Statistic]

Actually, the real question was too big for the subject. It is:

"How many people in your physics and chemistry (and other science) classes just memorized equations, and actually had no idea how it worked or what the equations meant?"

For me, around 50%. Which is pretty funny when the teacher throws a wrench in a test and asks for a logical explanation of whatever the unit is about.

92%, probably. :P
But in Biology, the people that memorize are getting the 90s (And will probably get around 70s-80s in Physics.. I know people that have), while I'm getting 60s and 70s in the tests... (90 in Physics)
I wonder why that is!
Oh, and personal question, do you happen to be the same KingNothing who visits several Anime boards?

 

[Gale]

I think really its a problem of how we give out grades to kids. Why should anyone bother to understand when we'll give you an A for just memorizing things. I don't think we can blame your peers, blame the school system and your teachers. A kid does what's best for their grades, because that's what everyone tells them that matters. Of course they're going to do exactly what it takes to get A's and nothing more.

 

[Artman]

Not that I am all that smart, but I blew the test curve for my first High School Chemistry test by 30 points (I got 100% plus the extra credit correct). Several "top ten" students were in that class and a few of them threatened me not to do that again.

 

[Bladibla]

When I am studying, I'm driven nearly only by my pure rage and hatred (and interest in natural sciences). For example when studying maths. In our school, there are people who study both further and normal maths. I was quite unfortunate and got into the normal maths class (We had a choice) because i first thought that maths would be 'too hard'.

Now i realize that whatever subject it is, if you enjoy it, chances are you will do fine. So now, to take my anger and rage out, i study maths that is very extra-curricular (I'm not saying I am always smart enough to understand it, because I am not) just to annoy those pesky, ****ing, cocky further maths students.

 

[motai]

Not that I am all that smart, but I blew the test curve for my first High School Chemistry test by 30 points (I got 100% plus the extra credit correct). Several "top ten" students were in that class and a few of them threatened me not to do that again.

I've had a similar situation happen to me in chemistry as well (it was on the ideal gases) where I ended up screwing up everyone's curve. Ever since then I am getting these subtle indications that I am a threat to everyone else's GPA... an unpleasant side effect of the competitive academic system. I do agree with some of the earlier posters that learning and understanding the material is far more justifiable than pure memorization; I am one of the few that tries to learn in this manner, unfortunately not many of my peers (who are also fairly bright but I don't necessarily agree with their study habits) have the same gumption towards learning.

 

[kirovman]

Too many.
That's partly the reason I did a physics degree, to prove to myself I wasn't that kind of person.

 

[eax]

In my physics class everyone knows what they are doing. Anyway once I had a test, in the question it said to prove something and show calculations. I thought about just stating the theory and that is why my answer (for previous question) is correct. But then the question stated to "show calculations" so I thought that was wrong way to do it. I showed all sides to calculation, one side went to results that are among the complex numbers, thus my answer is correct.

Next day I got my test back. I got the question wrong because the teacher said she wanted me to just explain the theory and say "thats why my answer is right". I was so close to 100%, but just from that question, makes me feel stupid.

Anyway in programming class everyone just memorizes how to do things. I had a competition today for computers, it went fine except for one thing. There was a problem. Our group were allowed to use any language we wanted, so for a question we decided to use Turing, little did we know of the bug "On certain machines Turing crashed when it was started". So close our program worked great and could've boosted to first place(everyone was roughly at the number of points) I hate it when these things happen. Full list of bugs http://www.holtsoft.com/turing/support/#releasenotes [scroll down to "known bugs" for 4.0.3] It has other stupid bugs. Next year I we'll do much better.

And something funny happened last semester that relates to this "memorizing" thing. Anyway on the exam for my computer class If I got perfect, because my marks were so good I would get 99%(Exciting isn't it). I got perfect on the exam except for one thing. I didn't know the years/names of specific people and what they did. And that was mainly what the exam was about. Just a few questions on the rest of the stuff. Anyway I was happy with my mark(Which allows it to be funny but makes me feel stupid for not memorizing those people)

Anyway on the day of when I may see my exam. I asked the teacher about it and he said "Just memorize once its only the ciriculum for this current course grade level and never have to know those people ever again" Or something similar. He doesn't know them, just looks up in his notes.

Oh the most funniest event(I am so proud of this one). When I was in grade10, I had to do the literacy test. I was the worst student in the English class(I past with 54%) . There was this student that got 90's on everything. And hated me for whatever reason(Actually I always tend to go to the smart kids [group work etc..] so I would be smarter. But in English I don't understand it well.(Math is my first language ) Well what happened on the literacy test, I past, and the top English student failed. I felt happy inside(I couldn't show my happiness to the failure, therefore its inside)(very happy) because I am not good in English and I past (top student failed). It was so Ironic.

 

[JasonRox]

I'm doing bad in Calculus right now because it is boring as ****.

If I wanted to do Applied Mathematics, I would have taken Physics (which I'm taking). Teach me math for ****s sake.

Yes, I'm mad at the school for wasting my money.

 

[franznietzsche]

Ooook... i was going to reply with something very long.. but i realized it was pretty off topic. No i don't agree that beautiful girls who're also smart are rare.

Then you would be wrong. Granted, loseyourname is right, the same is true of men. Bu you would still be wrong.

I believe people who can see girls as both beautiful and smart are rare.

Dumb people with low standards? They're not that uncommon.

 

[Bartholomew]

What perplexes me is why people find understanding material so difficult. Simple concepts should not be hard to learn, especially compared with memorization, which while straightforward involves more work. I think they just have a mindset that they can't do it, so they won't try.

 

[Bartholomew]

By the way, smart girls tend to also be beautiful. There are a few ugly smart people but in general smart people are also healthier and better-looking.

 

[KingNothing]

Oh, and personal question, do you happen to be the same KingNothing who visits several Anime boards?

Nope. "King Nothing" is a song by Metallica and thus is used by probably many many people.

I think really its a problem of how we give out grades to kids. Why should anyone bother to understand when we'll give you an A for just memorizing things.

I completely agree. I hate it when teachers teach shortcuts before making the kids prove they understand it.

Not that I am all that smart, but I blew the test curve for my first High School Chemistry test by 30 points (I got 100% plus the extra credit correct). Several "top ten" students were in that class and a few of them threatened me not to do that again.

Awesome! I love stories like that. Happened to me as well...only they were more respectful.

If I wanted to do Applied Mathematics, I would have taken Physics (which I'm taking). Teach me math for ****s sake.

Yeah, I agree. For example I remember in Calc the teacher made us use different equations to calculate motion of particles and other physics things. Even worse, many of the formulae are outdated, inaccurate, or way too neglectful (ignore this force, ignore that force, then do the problem).

What perplexes me is why people find understanding material so difficult. Simple concepts should not be hard to learn, especially compared with memorization, which while straightforward involves more work. I think they just have a mindset that they can't do it, so they won't try.

It involves more work but much less risk. I think some people fear not getting good grades if they try to understand it because they might fail, and they see memorization as a surer way.

 

[franznietzsche]

What perplexes me is why people find understanding material so difficult.

Incompetence usually. Sometimes, its just bad luck and they'll figure it out. Sometimes not.

Simple concepts should not be hard to learn, especially compared with memorization, which while straightforward involves more work. I think they just have a mindset that they can't do it, so they won't try.

Or they have the mindset that they don't want too. Knowledge might clash with their ipod.

 

[bomba923]

Well, about 80% of my physics, 30% of my AP Chem, and 90% of my U.S History class is stupid, i'd say. Unfortunately, nothing really comes of this since my teachers grade only 50-60% on tests.

People in my physics class memorize because they don't really understand the material--no really, they DON'T (well, 20% do). But their notebooks and classwork (plugging in formulas) looks so neat and organized that the teachers pardons them with undeserved B's.
In my statistics class, people are stupid because they didn't understand the previous concepts covered earlier during the course; now it haunts them...but this time it's a little better, since tests are 70%, and homework counts 30%.
In my chem class, people simply memorize and enjoy the low curve set by the teacher, without really understanding the material. That's what I love about science--getting good test grades because of understanding the material, not memorization. But that doesn't apply for my class.
Now my U.S History class...well, I can make quite a rant about that. To sum it up: it is a US HISTORY class, NOT AN ART GALLERY. Tests count only 20-30%---you can pass the class just learning how to draw George Washington. By the teacher, some students might not be "skilled" at history, but good at "art"---WHAT THE?? HISTORY is NOT A SKILL!---you READ the BOOK, TAKE THE TEST! In fact, you can even MEMORIZE! In my class, 90% of the students--native English speakers--can't read clearly or even pronounce industrialization, imperialism, and rise of immigration, even when the terms are spaced FAR apart in a reading selection. I have, for example, a project for 70% of the quarter grade----well, no presentation, just make a small poster with images of industrialization, immigration..etc. The only skills necessary: How to use Google image search and color in a rectangular factory.

I think the solution to improve HS education is to un-standardize teachers' programs, and replace it 90% tests, 10% other work---e.g., term papers, comparative essays, historical evaluation----something that demonstrates knowledge of the material and student ability in the field of study.
For math/science classes----100%tests, and extra credit for completing HARD or CHALLENGING problems/projects in the field of study/i.e.,--RELATED to the MATERIAL

 

[eax]

Some teachers that are good teachers have quit because they themselves don't like the educational system. I have 2 teachers that tried to change it but couldn't. Another teacher is my Mom's friend that just didn't like the system and quit. Also my math teacher complains "Why do I have to teach you this "guessing method" when there's a more reasonable approximation method."

Also there are these textbooks that are just there and no one uses them. Why are they there? Because teachers were too lazy to read it and the outside looked "professional" and thus they bought. Now they complain its no good.

My math teacher read many textbooks, and said there all not good. So he bought these little textbooks that just have questions in them.

Its all about lazy, one lazy will waste the non-lazy's energy to become lazy(happened to me (I wasn't the lazy))

With so many complains why doesn't anyone change the education system? How does the system work?

One funny thing which happens every semester, stupid people come taking a course and the teacher complains to make it shown as a higher level course than it is currently shown. And add prerequisites so stupid people won't join. Which the teacher fails, so at the beginning the course is extra hard(if there's stupid people there.)

 

[franznietzsche]

With so many complains why doesn't anyone change the education system? How does the system work?

)

Becuase its made by politicians.

It doesn't work. The education system is fundamentally broken.

 

[Pseudo Statistic]

Well, about 80% of my physics, 30% of my AP Chem, and 90% of my U.S History class is stupid, i'd say. Unfortunately, nothing really comes of this since my teachers grade only 50-60% on tests.

People in my physics class memorize because they don't really understand the material--no really, they DON'T (well, 20% do). But their notebooks and classwork (plugging in formulas) looks so neat and organized that the teachers pardons them with undeserved B's.
In my statistics class, people are stupid because they didn't understand the previous concepts covered earlier during the course; now it haunts them...but this time it's a little better, since tests are 70%, and homework counts 30%.
In my chem class, people simply memorize and enjoy the low curve set by the teacher, without really understanding the material. That's what I love about science--getting good test grades because of understanding the material, not memorization. But that doesn't apply for my class.
Now my U.S History class...well, I can make quite a rant about that. To sum it up: it is a US HISTORY class, NOT AN ART GALLERY. Tests count only 20-30%---you can pass the class just learning how to draw George Washington. By the teacher, some students might not be "skilled" at history, but good at "art"---WHAT THE?? HISTORY is NOT A SKILL!---you READ the BOOK, TAKE THE TEST! In fact, you can even MEMORIZE! In my class, 90% of the students--native English speakers--can't read clearly or even pronounce industrialization, imperialism, and rise of immigration, even when the terms are spaced FAR apart in a reading selection. I have, for example, a project for 70% of the quarter grade----well, no presentation, just make a small poster with images of industrialization, immigration..etc. The only skills necessary: How to use Google image search and color in a rectangular factory.

I think the solution to improve HS education is to un-standardize teachers' programs, and replace it 90% tests, 10% other work---e.g., term papers, comparative essays, historical evaluation----something that demonstrates knowledge of the material and student ability in the field of study.
For math/science classes----100%tests, and extra credit for completing HARD or CHALLENGING problems/projects in the field of study/i.e.,--RELATED to the MATERIAL

I know what you mean about the memorizing thing...
In first term college-preparatory Physics, I was the only person in my class to get an A. (What was even funnier was I was the only Sophomore while they were all Juniors and Seniors)
But History, you have to admit, is blatant memorizing... unless you have the best teacher ever and they choose to make it more of the interpretation kind of History, which is cool.

 

[KingNothing]

Yeah, history is just memorizing. My history teacher, for a reason yet unknown, completely spazzed and chewed me out in front of the class when I said to her "Basically, all this class is, is you give us a bunch of information, and we are expected to spit it back out in about a week.". I loved my old freshman history teacher, Mr. Gaworecki. He was so incredibly down to earth. He was a vietnam vet who walked with a limp because one foot was too big. He was always sarcastic about his age: "speak up. During the civil war I got hit in the head by a canon ball.". Then he'd randomly go up to some kid in a desk and shake the guy's desk till all his homework fell off and he'd go "Earthquake! Oh no!".

He started off on the very first day of history by asking us all why we thought it was important. Most kids said to learn from out mistakes. He said something along the lines of "most of you are just full of bull****, you see. We will never ever learn from our mistakes, so really its not important at all."