Majoring in CS solely to get a job

[set]

Hello,

I am a second-year student studying mathematics at university. But give the pure nature of the subject, I have always worried about being unemployed after I graduate. So I thought of majoring in computer science because there are so many jobs in industry.

However, I never liked computers. I actually had nightmares. I can't imagine myself staring at a screen 40 hours a week. I have taken three programming courses to brainwash myself into liking programming, and although I did okay in those, I never had a burning passion for them. Despite I can work in finance or business with a math degree, I don't think the job prospect isn't as good as a computer science major who can get like three offers the moment he graduates.

On the other hand, I am worried about flipping burgers after getting math degree. Also, I it seems like I do not need to work in IT industry with a computer science degree, but I can also get a job in business or finance as a math major would.

So, for those of you majored in CS to get a job, are you happy with your decision?

I look forward to any advice. Thanks in advance.

 

[Pythagorean]

Not a CS major but I think some people can bear to do it just for the money, some can't. I spent a year after I got my physics degree trying electrical engineering. I did it for the money (I had a kid on the way). I hated it, I'm more interested in the nature of things than their applications. So I went back to science. I have financial fears still though.

 

[johnqwertyful]

Unless you enjoy it, you'll be bad at it and will get passed up a lot for people that are actually passionate/good. If you just want a job, you don't need college. There's plenty of resources online that can help you develop a portfolio, if you just want a job doing basic development.

 

[yungman]

You have to find something that you have a passion, or else you never excel in the career. Try EE, take a class or two and see how you like it. With good math background, you are ahead of the game.

Programming don't have to be just about programming. In scientific programming, you are require to have deep knowledge of math and physics. Programming like signal and image processing, you need to know Fourier Transforms and other math. You might like that better.

But if you really don't like it, don't do it. 40 hours is longer than you imagine when you are in it. If you can't stand it, how are you going to survive in this for 30 years.

On top of everything, you always have to work with other people sharing the task to write a big program. There are so much finger pointing and arguing during integration. I did programming early in my career. I finished one project and I determined to get out of it.

You are only in the second year, don't declare a major, venture to other subject while you continue math. Math is the language of science just like English for everything else. Advanced level physics are explained in terms of calculus etc. You are not wasting time with math. Only you know what you like, just keep trying.

 

[yungman]

Not a CS major but I think some people can bear to do it just for the money, some can't. I spent a year after I got my physics degree trying electrical engineering. I did it for the money (I had a kid on the way). I hated it, I'm more interested in the nature of things than their applications. So I went back to science. I have financial fears still though.

Go for what you like, life is too short. If you have to passion and if you are good, you'll get ahead no matter what career. It is so important to do what you like, that's what life is all about.

 

[ModusPwnd]

I think a little differently than the others here. The vast majority of people will never get a career that involves their pre-held passion. The easier and more common scenario is for a person to develop a passion about what they are doing after they start doing it. You are right to worry about job prospects. You could easily spend lots of time shooting for your passion and find yourself without career prospects. During that time you could have been fostering a passion for something else, something useful. But, if you think you can get into business or finance with your math degree then you don't need to worry. You can go back for CS later if things don't work out.

 

[Raioneru]

I feel many people are brainwashed into thinking you can't get a job with a physics or maths degree.
o_0 of course employment isn't 100% but as long as you have a plan and figure out WHAT is it that you want to do with the degree you will be fine.
It's a matter of finding a job (one that won't be extinct in the next 20yrs hopefully) that you want to do and THEN figure out the roads that will lead to that job.
that's how it should be for everybody imo

 

[Locrian]

However, I never liked computers. I actually had nightmares. I can't imagine myself staring at a screen 40 hours a week.

You need a complete reevaluation then. Staring at computers 40 (or more) hours a week is what most everyone does. The civil engineers I know sometimes see the field, but most weeks they're at a computer monitor. Ditto for the EE's. Ditto for all computational and some theoretical physicists. Ditto for most of the 2,500 people who work at the insurance company that employs me.

What is it you think you're going to do with a math degree that doesn't involve computers?? Find those 21st century paper and pencil jobs?

Construction. Some sales jobs. Most medical jobs. Farming. Those are careers that don't sit in front of a computer monitor. I'm sure there are others. You need to identify which one or two of those you want to do and change your major so you have a shot at doing them.

 

[ModusPwnd]

I feel many people are brainwashed into thinking you can't get a job with a physics or maths degree.
o_0 of course employment isn't 100% but as long as you have a plan and figure out WHAT is it that you want to do with the degree you will be fine.
It's a matter of finding a job (one that won't be extinct in the next 20yrs hopefully) that you want to do and THEN figure out the roads that will lead to that job.
that's how it should be for everybody imo

Its not that way though. We need to take care in distinguishing between the way things are and they way we want things to be. Its not as simple as "have a plan and figure out WHAT is it that you want to do with the degree you will be fine." Life doesn't work that way. Most people's plans have many unexpected twists and turns and virtually nobody ends up as they had planned. The better advice, I think, is to plan but stay flexible because life will most likely dump you somewhere you didn't plan for.

 

[yungman]

You need a complete reevaluation then. Staring at computers 40 (or more) hours a week is what most everyone does. The civil engineers I know sometimes see the field, but most weeks they're at a computer monitor. Ditto for the EE's. Ditto for all computational and some theoretical physicists. Ditto for most of the 2,500 people who work at the insurance company that employs me.

CS and programming is very different from using computer to do work. I don't like to do programming much particularly tired of sitting in a group arguing whose program causes the problem. But I like using computer. Yes, Everybody is on computer all day doing something. I use computer to do RF simulation, draw schematics, laying out pcb etc. That is very different from programming.

When the program get bigger, you have to keep track of thousands and one variables, house keep is a big headache.

 

[yungman]

I feel many people are brainwashed into thinking you can't get a job with a physics or maths degree.
o_0 of course employment isn't 100% but as long as you have a plan and figure out WHAT is it that you want to do with the degree you will be fine.
It's a matter of finding a job (one that won't be extinct in the next 20yrs hopefully) that you want to do and THEN figure out the roads that will lead to that job.
that's how it should be for everybody imo

Good question, what can a pure physics major graduate do without a PHD? What kind of job available for them?

 

[Seydlitz]

As far I know this is physicsforum and I don't intend to do generalization, but why it seems that most of the posts seem rather discouraging in tone for those who are interested to be a physicist or pure theoreticians for that matter?

From my point of view I think it's good and healthy to be well, sort of optimistic, on what you like to do the most. If you're interested to become a mathematician why suddenly you are thinking about flipping burger. I find it rather too extreme and disturbing at the same time.

Is the world economical situation really that bad that students have to worry to such extent when they want to choose their major and what they'll do in the future?

 

[MathWarrior]

You can easily get a job in Computer Science that is less, "programming" and more math. Theoretical Computer science is a good example of this and is largely based in number theory, abstract algebra, linear algebra, graph theory, combinatorics, etc., also look into scientific computing.

 

[ModusPwnd]

Is the world economical situation really that bad that students have to worry to such extent when they want to choose their major and what they'll do in the future?

Of course it is. Unemployment is high, underemployment is high. Unless you are already financially set or blissfully ignorant you should absolutely be considering career options after college. I know that there are some on here that think you should just take college as a learning experience, they say not to treat it as a competition and not to worry about career options after graduation. I think only the richer families in our society can afford such a lax view. For me, and most of my fellow grads, we saw college as a means of entering or staying in the middle class (or higher) while also getting a career doing something somewhat enjoyable. Otherwise, why even go?

 

[yungman]

I think physics is a very useful knowledge. By itself, I don't think there are lots of career opportunities, but it is so easy to combine with a little bit of other knowledge to make a good career out of it. As a retired EE, I still studying electromagnetics ( physics) because I see the usefulness of a strong math and physics background. Physics and math are like language of science, you'll get a much deeper appreciation of other science even if you don't use it directly. If I were to do it again, I would seriously consider major in physics with EE as minor as pure electronics are not hard, it's when mixed in with physics ( RF, antenna) then it's hard. You go much farther with good physics background.

I agree with Mathwarrior, I worked in the field of mass spectrometry. All the programmer GOT to know signal processing, Fourier Transform, maybe even particle physics as they program step by step how to accelerate, bunch, deflect, detect, timing...every single step of the process. How can you know how to program without the knowledge of physics? But then if you work for B of A, then yes, it will be a waste of all the knowledge of physics!

I don't agree that you should study for a field that you can get good money, but not thinking about jobs and money is not the right way to go.

Well, I am open to be wrong, but can someone tell me what kind of job you can get with a BS in pure physics?

 

[set]

Thanks for your advice everyone.

To be entirely honest, I don't even know if I actually hate computer science. I mean, I like it for the first few weeks when the assignments are easy, then started to hate them when they get harder, then reconsider taking another course because I am so worried about getting a job.

I think I shouldn't do CS.

 

[Seydlitz]

Of course it is. Unemployment is high, underemployment is high. Unless you are already financially set or blissfully ignorant you should absolutely be considering career options after college. I know that there are some on here that think you should just take college as a learning experience, they say not to treat it as a competition and not to worry about career options after graduation. I think only the richer families in our society can afford such a lax view. For me, and most of my fellow grads, we saw college as a means of entering or staying in the middle class (or higher) while also getting a career doing something somewhat enjoyable. Otherwise, why even go?

You're assuming that this trend will always continue, just look at the Great Depression, or other previous economic crisis, they were generally over quicker than expected, whilst being followed by a period of growth and expansion. Now, I'm not going to argue about economics but considering career options realistically and worrying about flipping burger in the future are two different things altogether.

I've never mentioned that career options should be ignored. I'm just worried that people who will do fine in the future will simply back away or be discouraged excessively from what they like to do the most simply because their career options don't have good outlook now, if indeed that is the case, which I also doubt for there are many decent options for pure theoreticians.

Of course the consideration is significantly different if one's goal is to live in opulence straight after graduating, regardless of one's interests.

 

[Pythagorean]

Go for what you like, life is too short. If you have to passion and if you are good, you'll get ahead no matter what career. It is so important to do what you like, that's what life is all about.

For me, that's true. But I know people that take the painfully boring job that pays well, and just wait until weekends and evenings to do what they like. And they can afford to like a larger variety of things. For them, it's not important that their work is meaningful or intellectually fulfilling, and I'm happy for them (I wish I was like that!)

 

[yungman]

For me, that's true. But I know people that take the painfully boring job that pays well, and just wait until weekends and evenings to do what they like. And they can afford to like a larger variety of things. For them, it's not important that their work is meaningful or intellectually fulfilling, and I'm happy for them (I wish I was like that!)

I cannot do that. Luckily I never had to. I still like what I did and I am still study more physics and math right now.

I don't think you need to give up physics at all. When you get to higher level EE designs, there are a lot of physics involved and it is an advantage to have the physics background. Case in point, I am studying physics and math to enhance my electronic knowledge...It's my hobby and passion...And...You never know, with this economy, I never take for granted I would never work again.

 

[yungman]

People, I asked a few times what kind of job you can get with a BS in physics? I can't think of much. BUT, I can think of a lot of job possibilities if you combine with others like EE and CS. I personally don't see why you have to draw the line of physics. You branch out a little into CS and EE, lots of jobs and you can apply your physics background to the job. I mentioned those a few times that you need knowledge in physics and math for CS and EE. Particular in microwave and antenna design, it is electromagnetics, all based on EM!

To me, CS and EE are kind of like a tool...a way to achieve the result from ideas originated from physics a lot of times. For example, Ultrasound medical scanner was an idea from physics, the doppler effect, phase array summing and subtracting...Those are physics in every sense. CS people programs the signal processing, EE design the circuits, those are just means to achieve the result from a theory of physics. Knowing physics gives you the advantage in inspiration and designs. I just don't see what is so bad that after you get a degree in physics, you become an EE or programmer working in scientific field.

If I am not mistaken, you'll likely to find a job in EE and CS that uses your knowledge of physics than if you insist in getting a job in pure physics. Without a PHD, you likely be a technician building something for a scientist. In EE or CS, you actually design, create your project that you can call it your own.

I worked with plenty of PHDs in Charles Evans, I would not trade my job with most of them. You really think all the physicist are inventing things that change the world? If you have that idea, you might want to rethink your career. This is real life, the cold cruel world.

 

[Locrian]

People, I asked a few times what kind of job you can get with a BS in physics?

There's a reason you haven't gotten the answer you want.

 

[yungman]

There's a reason you haven't gotten the answer you want.

I really think physics and math are the two majors that easily adapted to most scientific career and gain advantage. If I were to do it again, I would seriously consider physics major and minor in electronics. I designed a lot of electronics, from RF to micro controller and FPGA. Other than RF ( that's the real deal), you really can learn on your own if you survive physics. CS? Get a book! It's really not that big a deal for people that survive physics. Then find a job in the scientific field like what I had, Medical scanner and mass spectrometer/metrolysis equipments etc. You really see the physics in action. Apply for an engineering job in SLAC etc.

 

[Vanadium 50]

This whole thread has the implicit assumption that college is trade school: it's job is to give you a credential that will get you hired. This is not the case - on both ends. College is not trade school, and no employer will offer someone a job solely because they have a degree. Even in CS.

The employer wants to know what you can do to make him money. You should know what you bring to the table before applying. Chances are that sitting on your butt and regurgitating what you have heard is not going to impress a prospective employer. He has Liberal Arts majors for that.

So you should not be thinking "which majors will get me a job?". You should be thinking "what do I need to learn that will make me more employable".

 

[tbg299]

Most average computer science majors plan on getting a job in the IT field as soon as they graduate. On the other hand, I , and a few others in my program who are very passionate about theoretical math and writing proofs, are going to apply to computer science Ph.D programs, like AI and cognitive computing.

 

[ModusPwnd]

So you should not be thinking "which majors will get me a job?". You should be thinking "what do I need to learn that will make me more employable".

There isn't really that much difference between the two, different majors entail learning different things. Some are more employable than others, like CS vs Math.

 

[johnqwertyful]

Of course it is. Unemployment is high, underemployment is high. Unless you are already financially set or blissfully ignorant you should absolutely be considering career options after college. I know that there are some on here that think you should just take college as a learning experience, they say not to treat it as a competition and not to worry about career options after graduation. I think only the richer families in our society can afford such a lax view. For me, and most of my fellow grads, we saw college as a means of entering or staying in the middle class (or higher) while also getting a career doing something somewhat enjoyable. Otherwise, why even go?

Not really.

 

[johnqwertyful]

Also median income is not bad either.

 

[johnqwertyful]

There isn't really that much difference between the two, different majors entail learning different things. Some are more employable than others, like CS vs Math.

http://www.studentsreview.com/unemployment_by_major.php3

CS 4.2%
Math 7.1%

Yes, a 2.9% unemployment increase from CS to math. Cool.

http://www.studentsreview.com/salary.shtml

CS $95,701
Math $95,567

And $200 a year.

In CS, you have a 2.9% higher chance of getting a job. And make $200 more a year. I'm failing to see why CS is such an amazing option compared to math. Yes it does have a lower unemployment rate. That's true. But really? You'd give up studying something you actually care about for $200 and a little bit easier time finding a job?

 

[yungman]

Well, I still have not get any answer, what kind of jobs a pure physics and math major can get? The graphs does not tell anything about what jobs they get, is it programming, engineering, pizza delivery or what? Just the number and salary don't tell anything. What jobs?

I had a chemistry degree, I worked, and I earned $115K 12 years ago. That tells NOTHING. I worked as an EE and Manager of EE...that has NOTHING to do with chemistry.

 

[johnqwertyful]

Well, I still have not get any answer, what kind of jobs a pure physics and math major can get? The graphs does not tell anything about what jobs they get, is it programming, engineering, pizza delivery or what? Just the number and salary don't tell anything. What jobs?

I wasn't trying to answer your question, as I am not qualified. I was just calling Modus out on his blatant misinformation.

I wish I could answer your question more, I apologize.

 

[yungman]

I wasn't trying to answer your question, as I am not qualified. I was just calling Modus out on his blatant misinformation.

I wish I could answer your question more, I apologize.

No apology needed, this is an interesting discussion. If you read my post, I am all for physics and math major. I personally said in my former post that I would major in physics and minor in EE if I were to do it again. I think Physics and math is very universal, you have a lot of options and easy to switch around...You survive physics and math, everything else is quite easy!

The discussion is turning to be PURE physics vs mixed physics and other trade. I think people should look at it as mixed trade rather than pure math and physics.

I venture to guess the graphs you gave include people that successfully transition to other related fields and become successful. To me, a lot of them are physics as I gave example before. It's just physics in form of programming to analyze data, running the instruments of physics. Electronics that perform a task in physics etc. They are all closely related to Physics that you learn in the physics major. The lines drawn between physics/math and other trades are really not black and while, it's very blur. Hope that clarify it.

 

[johnqwertyful]

Definitely agreed with your post. Physics and math degrees serve as a way to get into other areas. It's not like you get a degree and people pay you to sit around solving math problems (unless you're in academia, but then you need grad school).

I am going into my 4th year as a math major/minor in physics. I like it because I can talk to most technical people. My dad is an electrical engineer, and we talk about engineering stuff (I've also taken some engineering) and of course I don't know everything, but I can usually break things down into what I do know.

Also, I wouldn't say EE has nothing to do with chemistry. The math, the knowledge of physics, the logic and problem solving particularly, knowing how to interact with other people, etc. Just being a scientist is important.

"You survive physics and math, everything else is quite easy!" So true hahaha

 

[yungman]

Physics and particular math is the language of science, just like English for everything else. There are few jobs that are for pure English alone. But can you imagine if you can write good English, your job outlook is limitless. You can go for Law, teaching, business...

Same as physics and math, if you are good at these, you open the door to the world of opportunities, not in PURE physics or math, but easily adapted to closely related trades. I don't believe you have to give up anything. I sure feel physics and math are important enough that I have to come back and study them. The last few years, I study nothing but physics ( EM) and math. It is that important for electronics. Electronics is just a tool to realize a goal, in a lot of cases, it's the physics that set the goal and use electronics to achieve the goal. So you can be in the heart of it designing electronics, just depend on what jobs you have. You applied to SLAC, you are going to be eating and breathing physics even if you design the electronics.

I forgot, there is material science involves in semi conductors. All the new exotic materials coming out that increase the speed of electronics are all physics. I can't say too much on this as I am not in this field. But it got to be all physics.

 

[ModusPwnd]

In CS, you have a 2.9% higher chance of getting a job. And make $200 more a year. I'm failing to see why CS is such an amazing option compared to math. Yes it does have a lower unemployment rate. That's true. But really? You'd give up studying something you actually care about for $200 and a little bit easier time finding a job?

Dont you think that many of those math graduates are doing CS or IT? I do. And I think its the CS skills they acquire that makes them marketable.

 

[Pythagorean]

CS 4.2%
Math 7.1%

Yes, a 2.9% unemployment increase from CS to math. Cool.

In CS, you have a 2.9% higher chance of getting a job.

Hrm.. I don't think your interpretation of the statistics is right...

I think with a math degree, you're 7.1/4.2 = 1.69 times as likely to be unemployed. Or... there are 69% more unemployed people with math degrees than there are unemployed people with CS degrees.