3 Thought Experiments on Light: No Photons or Waves

[timharvey027]

I would like to invite your comments on three thought experiments. The first i suggest demonstrates that light cannot be either a stream of photons nor a wave. The second questions if light can also have momentum and the third asks why a theorectical truth is not observed.
Here we go, 1. Consider a small light source which is completley spherical. Light is emitted from it, imagine for a moment that light emitted is in straight lines almost like a million laser beams being emitted from a shepherical pin head. Now because the surface is spherical there will be a miniscular difference of a degree of the angle in which each light path is emitted. If this is refutted with the argument that light is emiitted at every angle from every point then this would mean that an infinate number of light paths and thus sources would exist ( not possible). So again because the surface from which the light is emitted is shepherical this means that to an observer a million miles away the appearance of light emiitted would be like a round pin head with a million spikes protruding from it, as you move further away from the source the distance between the spikes increases, meaning that to viewers further away those seeing othe space between the spikes and thus the source source would not be visble. More detail available if needed.
2. Imagine you are on a train bouncing a ping pong ball up and down on the table in front of you. It works.I agree that the movement of the ball will be seen differently from an observer on the platform from that on the train.
Suppose the that the bouncing ball is replaced by light traveling between two mirrors on the train representing the bat and the table top. My question is, does light have the momentum that the ping pong ball has when it leaves it's fist source. Do actual observations confirm that light will rebound to a pooint different from its emmission.
3. Imagine a set of four mirrors set within a square at 90% such that any light intoduced would reflect off of each mirror forming a square, in theory this light would continue to reflect. Further imagine that one of the mirrors is a two way mirror and that a laser beam is introduced firing at the next mirror, after some moments the two aspect of the mirror is converted back to a reflecting mirror. In theory the light beam should continue to reflect between the mirrors in a continuous square but it does not, why?
Sorry for the lack of detail i have tried to keep this short

 

[JaredJames]

2. Imagine you are on a train bouncing a ping pong ball up and down on the table in front of you. It works.I agree that the movement of the ball will be seen differently from an observer on the platform from that on the train.
Suppose the that the bouncing ball is replaced by light traveling between two mirrors on the train representing the bat and the table top. My question is, does light have the momentum that the ping pong ball has when it leaves it's fist source. Do actual observations confirm that light will rebound to a pooint different from its emmission.

A ping pong ball will only return to a position other than it's original if there is an outside force acting on it.

If it is moving with the train, inside it without any interference it will always bounce vertically. This is independent of reference point.

It only appears on a curved path due to the train moving - not because it is actually curving - don't confuse the two issues.

3. Imagine a set of four mirrors set within a square at 90% such that any light intoduced would reflect off of each mirror forming a square, in theory this light would continue to reflect. Further imagine that one of the mirrors is a two way mirror and that a laser beam is introduced firing at the next mirror, after some moments the two aspect of the mirror is converted back to a reflecting mirror. In theory the light beam should continue to reflect between the mirrors in a continuous square but it does not, why?
Sorry for the lack of detail i have tried to keep this short

No, it wouldn't. You get losses with light just like everything else. It would last for a few fractions of a second before dying out once a source is removed.

 

[Drakkith]

1. Consider a small light source which is completley spherical. Light is emitted from it, imagine for a moment that light emitted is in straight lines almost like a million laser beams being emitted from a shepherical pin head. Now because the surface is spherical there will be a miniscular difference of a degree of the angle in which each light path is emitted. If this is refutted with the argument that light is emiitted at every angle from every point then this would mean that an infinate number of light paths and thus sources would exist ( not possible). So again because the surface from which the light is emitted is shepherical this means that to an observer a million miles away the appearance of light emiitted would be like a round pin head with a million spikes protruding from it, as you move further away from the source the distance between the spikes increases, meaning that to viewers further away those seeing othe space between the spikes and thus the source source would not be visble. More detail available if needed.

Photons are constantly emitted in random directions, which over any amount of time greater than something like a few nanoseconds will effectively be ALL direction. Imagine having trillions and trillions of spikes every single second coming at you. You would definitely see a few.

 

[davenn]

3. Imagine a set of four mirrors set within a square at 90% such that any light intoduced would reflect off of each mirror forming a square, in theory this light would continue to reflect. Further imagine that one of the mirrors is a two way mirror and that a laser beam is introduced firing at the next mirror, after some moments the two aspect of the mirror is converted back to a reflecting mirror. In theory the light beam should continue to reflect between the mirrors in a continuous square but it does not, why?
Sorry for the lack of detail i have tried to keep this short

No, it wouldn't. You get losses with light just like everything else. It would last for a few fractions of a second before dying out once a source is removed.

And after just watching some Richard Feynman lectures over the last few days. He has said that the photons we see coming from the mirror are not the same photons that hit the mirror from the originating light source. Rather the "reflected' photons we see are new photons emitted from atoms from within the mirror as a result of the interactions/bombardment of the original incoming photons

Dave

 

[sardar]

and to the point.

I find these thought experiments interesting and thought-provoking. However, I would like to point out that thought experiments, while useful for conceptualizing ideas and theories, do not always accurately reflect reality. They are meant to challenge our understanding and push us to think outside the box.

In response to the first thought experiment, I would say that the behavior of light can be explained by the wave-particle duality concept. Light can exhibit both wave-like and particle-like behavior, depending on the experimental setup. In the case of a spherical light source, the light can be thought of as waves spreading out in all directions, rather than individual particles being emitted at specific angles.

Regarding the second thought experiment, it is important to note that light does indeed have momentum, as demonstrated by the photoelectric effect. However, the analogy of a bouncing ping pong ball may not accurately represent the behavior of light, as it is a massless particle. The concept of momentum for light is better explained through the idea of photon pressure, where light exerts a force on objects it interacts with.

As for the third thought experiment, I would suggest that the behavior of light in this scenario could be affected by factors such as absorption, scattering, and interference. It may not continue to reflect indefinitely due to these factors, and the two-way mirror may also play a role in altering the behavior of the light.

In conclusion, while these thought experiments raise interesting questions, they may not accurately represent the behavior of light in reality. It is important for scientists to conduct experiments and gather empirical evidence to support or refute theories, rather than relying solely on thought experiments.