350W car power inverter vs tiny generator

[Cobul]

I need to power a 350W thing inside the car. And I googled about it. What I learned was that there was a 100W fuse inside car lighter jacks so you can't run a 350W inverter. So I have some questions.

1. If you remove the 100W fuse and put a 400W fuse. Can the 350W power inverter sucked up the electricity even in the alternative so the car would stop running?

2. If I would use a separate battery. I found the calculation for 60HA battery is. 350W/12v = 29.16 A. And 60HA/29.16 = 2 Hours. Two hours are very fast.

3. Maybe a tiny generator would help? A good tiny generator that is quiet that you can put inside car. Are there commercial generators for use inside car? How long does it run before refueling?

 

[berkeman]

1. If you remove the 100W fuse and put a 400W fuse. Can the 350W power inverter sucked up the electricity even in the alternative so the car would stop running?

Please do not increase the fuse rating in your standard fuse box. That is a bad idea.

Will your car be running the whole time that you will have this additional 350W load? This is similar to the situation in police cars, where there are separate electrical circuits powered by the engine/battery system to power the spotlights and light bar. They are not drawing that power via the cigarette lighter circuit, obviously.

If your car will be running the whole time, you should be able to have a car mechanic install a separate fuse box and electrical feed circuit for your appliance. You may need to upgrade the alternator to a higher power one, though. That is similar to what some folks need to do on their motorcycles when they want to be able to plug in heated riding gear in cold weather. Often the alternator is not sized to handle that extra electrical load, so a higher-power one needs to be installed.

 

[DaveE]

If you remove the 100W fuse and put a 400W fuse

No! Just no! Don't do that.
Your vehicle is only wired to support the currents it is fused for.

BTW, fuses are rated in Amps not Watts.

Maybe a tiny generator would help? A good tiny generator that is quiet that you can put inside car. Are there commercial generators for use inside car? How long does it run before refueling?

Also, how long would it run before it kills you with CO? How long would it run before it started a fire? How long would it run before you got too hot sitting inside with it?

The questions you are asking have convinced me you aren't qualified to be doing modifications like this. DIY is great, until it gets dangerous.

 

[berkeman]

BTW, if your engine will not be running the whole time that you want to use this 350W load, then you need to look at how RVs use an external generator to power internal appliances. That will give you examples of how the fuel system is set up, and how the exhaust fumes from that generator are routed away from any passenger compartment openings.

 

[Cobul]

We know the world is now at a Delta virus onslaught. And you see news of all hospitals filled up and people dying in the street or lined up with oxygen tanks.

I know oxygen tanks are very dangerous because it can ignite the surrounding. So I didn't buy any oxygen tanks as backup in case Covid would hit me or home.

Instead I bought an Oxygen Concentrator similar to the following plugged into AC power.



But how could you bring this to car in case you got Covid and your doctor told you to use oxygen while lining up inside hospitals in cars (when you can't find oxygen tanks).

I know all PF mentors are so nervous for any medical advice that can make people sue them and put them in jail. So they just locked any thread threatening them .But I'm NOT asking for medical advice because I don't have covid. ok?

I'm just asking is it practical to use power inverter on an oxygen concentrator inside car with a 60HA battery drained in just 2 hours? And would a generator work? I guess to avoid CO building inside car. You have to put the generator on top of car like in ghostbusters or in the trunk. Or there is just no way to put a generator inside car?

Or maybe put the generator outside car lined up in hospitals.

Look at the diagram of an oxygen concentrator. It has compressor. Does generator produce square or sine waves AC and can a compressor use square wave AC?

Just the technical side and for reference or stock up information and not asking for medical advice. Therefore do not think of getting sued guys.

 

[anorlunda]

Doing that kind of thing without the necessary technical and safety background risks killing people. Since you are trying to save people from being killed, I recommend that you take your ideas to a manufacturer rather than trying to do it yourself.

Edit: By the way, do you know that there are many brands of portable personal oxygen concentrators on the market? They have internal rechargeable batteries.

 

[jack action]

The way a fuse size is selected is to choose one that will blow before the electric circuit gets damaged. If the manufacturer puts a fuse to limit the power to 100 W, that is because the electric circuit cannot handle more than that. Increasing the fuse size will only remove the protection for the electric circuit, i.e. the fuse will be completely irrelevant as the electric circuit will get damaged before the new increased-size fuse.

The solution to your problem is to create a new electric circuit, which is basically a wire capable of supporting a 30 A current - with an appropriate fuse - connected directly to the battery. The charging system of your car will probably handle your 350 W load (when the engine is running that is). Worst case scenario, the battery will eventually die if the alternator is not big enough. In such a case, a bigger alternator is usually easy to find. But I don't think you will need it, especially if you don't put other loads on the battery (like keeping the lights or the ventilation fan on, for example).

Running the car engine will most likely burn more fuel than a generator, but with all the trouble and cost of installing a generator, plus the fact that you will be using it temporarily to save a life, I don't think a generator is worth it.

 

[Cobul]

The way a fuse size is selected is to choose one that will blow before the electric circuit gets damaged. If the manufacturer puts a fuse to limit the power to 100 W, that is because the electric circuit cannot handle more than that. Increasing the fuse size will only remove the protection for the electric circuit, i.e. the fuse will be completely irrelevant as the electric circuit will get damaged before the new increased-size fuse.

The solution to your problem is to create a new electric circuit, which is basically a wire capable of supporting a 30 A current - with an appropriate fuse - connected directly to the battery. The charging system of your car will probably handle your 350 W load (when the engine is running that is). Worst case scenario, the battery will eventually die if the alternator is not big enough. In such a case, a bigger alternator is usually easy to find. But I don't think you will need it, especially if you don't put other loads on the battery (like keeping the lights or the ventilation fan on, for example).

Running the car engine will most likely burn more fuel than a generator, but with all the trouble and cost of installing a generator, plus the fact that you will be using it temporarily to save a life, I don't think a generator is worth it.

No. Wont modify the car as the worst could happen like damaging the car circuitry for something one may never use.

Maybe just call special ambulance if there was Delta contagion. But it's just that an ambulance won't wait 2 days with you lining up at hospital like in Florida surge now.

Maybe just look for an oxygen tank if one is lining up at hospital for Covid confinement.

Can compressor run on square wave AC from either inverter or generator? Or only sine wave? Would the compressor sound different if the input is square vs sine wave AC?

(edit: about portable oxygen concentrator. It can't output 95% oxygen at 5 liter per minute. Only 95% oxygen at 1 liter per minute, and it's very expensive. And remember one won't probably use the oxygen concentrator at all just stocking it up in the attic for the next Omega Strain).

 

[rbelli1]

Being on a high oxygen concentration can be unhealthy when it is not needed. It should only be used when the extra oxygen is required.

Can compressor run on square wave AC from either inverter or generator? Or only sine wave? Would the compressor sound different if the input is square vs sine wave AC?

A generator will produce a sine wave.

An inverter that proudly advertises sine wave is the only kind that will certainly produce a sine wave. They are more expensive than the pseudo-sine ones that are basically a couple of overlapped square waves. If not advertised as sine then it probably is not since the manufacturer would not pay for the more expensive parts and then not charge the premium price.

The motors in the concentrator may run on the pseudo-sine inverter but this is a rather expensive device so I personally would not do that. The motor itself may sound different but the pumps and fans also make noise so that would not be a good way to identify the inverter.

BoB

 

[anorlunda]

You are talking about a do-it-yourself medical device. There are many ways to make mistakes that could harm people. Asking advice from strangers on the Internet is a bad way to start.

I urge you abandon this idea before someone is hurt. Instead, talk to the medical professionals and ask them how you can help during the COVID crisis.

 

[berkeman]

Oh Lordy. Thread locked while we figure out what to do.

 

[berkeman]

Based on multiple thread starts about dangerous activities and othet issues that aren't visible anymore in the forums, the OP has been banned and this thread will remain closed. Thanks everyone for trying to help the OP stay safe.