Academics gap: Looking for 2nd M.Sc Physics degree or a PhD Physics?

[LightQuanta]

Hi everyone,

I finished M.Sc Physics by "Research" at a UK university during the academic year of 2015. I am an international student from India.

As I did not do well in my oral presentation defending my M.Sc thesis (but it was not worst), as a result, I got a pass degree. Before the day or for months before the final viva exam, I requested my supervisor and program admissions team, the details regarding examination process and grading system (as there was no information on course page or student account). Note that, I had no classmates and peers to communicate as this is a research program (Not much revealed about peer students). They never revealed much on M.Sc Physics by "Research" grading system. (A general rule is: Distinction, Merit or Pass. is given upon successful completion of a degree.) After viva/oral exam my examiners told me that there is no grading of Merit for my M.Sc Physics by "Research"(too early to know! A new information was added). Only grading options that are available was: Distinction or Pass. They awarded me with pass. My university printed incorrect degree on my graduation certificate, which says: M.Sc physics. not M.Sc Physics by "Research." Later, I requested for correcting the same, as soon as possible, and then it was done. My UG B.Sc score for physics is above 76% overall.

As a result, I got disappointed and had unsuccessful P.hd admission attempts. I applied for P.hd programs (UK universities) for 2016 and was unable to get into fully fundeded research program. A Self-Funded P.hd physics program might have been possible, somehow, but my supervisor told me that : "It's not good for anyone doing as it will affect their career in physics." (and I don't think I got a good recommendation letter after the result). My last email from my supervisor was him advising me to take P.hd in computational cosmology degree.

I had education loan (from 2015) to repay for my masters program and took long time to fully repay it (with the interest). As a result, worked in various tutoring physics jobs and pandemic happened. Currently, I am working as online physics tutions freelance. I do not like this academic gap, but it happened to me. Since then, only thing I could do was taking physics courses from Edx, Coursera etc. (finishing these courses) reading physics books and solving problems and learning new mathematical skills.

And now, its 2022 and I am 34 years old. I keep seeing that people are still getting physics degrees at 90 years old! Or P.hd in physics in their 80s. They never gave up on physics. I do not feel good about this academic gap. I want to change this for 2023 or 2024. I failed many times in my life and never gave up.

By the way, is the pass degree is synonymous with a failure in a degree? Why not remove this grading option instead? (So, only distinction or Merit are valid grading to apply for a P.hD?)

I would like to apply for a second M.Sc physics degree (to compensate for the pass degree) this time a taught course (As per UKBA immigration rules say that a student cannot take the same degree twice, if exceptions are made for a taught or a research degree.) or possibly, M.Sc physics in a US university. I can take PGRE and I am not good at GRE (yet to try, due to a learning disability).

Is there any chance of me getting into a fully funded P.hd program in physics without 2nd M.Sc program? (Now, I feel less likely and no chance. due to academic gap and the pass degree.) Is there anyway or any skill or course which will help me to bypass "pass degree"? And save a year and save money, which goes into funding my own second M.Sc degree?

What can I do to get back to academics and a university physics admission into P.hd physics ? What course of action do I need to take for 2023? My dream was to get into physics and become a physicist one day. Just a basic dream not going for a big one. Now, I am lost in time and I am not sure, where should I begin without a second M.Sc degree? If I did get back to a university. I do not want to get a pass degree. This time it will be a distinction. As for learning, I keep learning new skills every day, and I am not willing to stop learning.

I need an advice from people who had an academic gap in their past and people who succeeded in getting into p.hd. Anyone, please help me with right course of action, which will bypass my own mistakes - for not applying for this long. Any exams or entrance tests or anything which can help me with current situation I am in right now. If I can get a high score in PGRE, will it be good enough for UK/USA fully funded p.hd admissions?

Is there any exam specific to physics to deal with the problem I have?

What I need to do to get into a fully funded P.hd Physics? Any level of hard work required, I am ready to put in order to get back into academics. (Also I am already reading guidance to become physicist provided by the forum. )

 

[f95toli]

Are you intending to apply to a CDT in the UK? Or an open PhD position (as advertised on say findaphd.com)?
The process is quite different.

As I have written many times before (have a look at some of my old posts) it is very difficult to make general recommendations when it comes to applying for PhDs in the UK since there are effectively multiple systems running in parallel and different universities have different rules. A potential supervisor might not care whether you "only" got a "pass" but the admissions people at the university might, it depends on their internal rules (which. again, differ)

The fact that you are not a UK citizen and (I assume) not living the UK does complicate things quite a bit. Under normal circumstances I would not recommend someone to do a 2nd MSc unless it was in a very different field; but it this case it might be a way to get a foot in the door and make connections to potential supervisors. Just make sure you are actually eligible for the funding.

I do agree with the advice that you should be VERY careful about self-funded PhDs. If there isn't enough money in a project to pay for the stipend for a PhD student then that is often an indication that something is wrong. That said, there are always exceptions.

 

[curious_mind]

While I am not qualified to answer this question, but very motivating for me to have such spirit as yours towards learning. (I also have dream as yours, to become a physicist one day and explore unknown - no matter I make small or big.) I am from India having engineering degree and want to pursue Masters in Physics and if I enroll in masters next year - I will still have 3 years gap than usual. (So, currently I have almost no idea of how PhD applications are done, how it works and all.)

Sorry for commenting something irrelevant, but I am just puzzled - is not it possible to work on specific research problem of interest and then contacting relevant supervisor of that topic and ask for a PhD offer ?

 

[CrysPhys]

OP: You mentioned the option of pursuing a graduate degree in physics in the US. Note that in the US an MS Physics is not required to apply for admission to a PhD Physics program. Applying to a PhD Physics program upon completion of a BS Physics is the more common route. Some US schools do offer a terminal MS Physics program; many do not.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Your problem is not that you took a gap. Your problem is that when you attempted grad school, you did poorly and this time around you want someone else to pay for it for you. That's a tough combination.

Grad school admissions are competitive, as is getting support. Why should they accept you and decline someone whose record is stronger? You need a good reason, and your application needs to bring this out. "I want..," is not going to cut it, I'm afraid.

 

[LightQuanta]

Are you intending to apply to a CDT in the UK? Or an open PhD position (as advertised on say findaphd.com)?
The process is quite different.

As I have written many times before (have a look at some of my old posts) it is very difficult to make general recommendations when it comes to applying for PhDs in the UK since there are effectively multiple systems running in parallel and different universities have different rules. A potential supervisor might not care whether you "only" got a "pass" but the admissions people at the university might, it depends on their internal rules (which. again, differ)

The fact that you are not a UK citizen and (I assume) not living the UK does complicate things quite a bit. Under normal circumstances I would not recommend someone to do a 2nd MSc unless it was in a very different field; but it this case it might be a way to get a foot in the door and make connections to potential supervisors. Just make sure you are actually eligible for the funding.

I do agree with the advice that you should be VERY careful about self-funded PhDs. If there isn't enough money in a project to pay for the stipend for a PhD student then that is often an indication that something is wrong. That said, there are always exceptions.

Thank you f95toli, I will look into CDT too (also your old posts),as this is new to me. I am looking for potential supervisors with a fresh application. Thanks for the tip. I won't get into self-funded PhDs, will avoid it as much as possible.

 

[LightQuanta]

While I am not qualified to answer this question, but very motivating for me to have such spirit as yours towards learning. (I also have dream as yours, to become a physicist one day and explore unknown - no matter I make small or big.) I am from India having engineering degree and want to pursue Masters in Physics and if I enroll in masters next year - I will still have 3 years gap than usual. (So, currently I have almost no idea of how PhD applications are done, how it works and all.)

Sorry for commenting something irrelevant, but I am just puzzled - is not it possible to work on specific research problem of interest and then contacting relevant supervisor of that topic and ask for a PhD offer ?

Physics forums insights are really helpful in this case.
https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/early-physics-education-in-high-schools/

I do not have any engineering degree. So, I am not sure about this.

Most of the physics departments require their applicants to finish their Masters degree (in physics) before applying for PhD.

 

[LightQuanta]

OP: You mentioned the option of pursuing a graduate degree in physics in the US. Note that in the US an MS Physics is not required to apply for admission to a PhD Physics program. Applying to a PhD Physics program upon completion of a BS Physics is the more common route. Some US schools do offer a terminal MS Physics program; many do not.

I did not know that MS is not required for a phd program in US. Thanks for the post CrysPhys.

 

[LightQuanta]

Your problem is not that you took a gap. Your problem is that when you attempted grad school, you did poorly and this time around you want someone else to pay for it for you. That's a tough combination.

Grad school admissions are competitive, as is getting support. Why should they accept you and decline someone whose record is stronger? You need a good reason, and your application needs to bring this out. "I want..," is not going to cut it, I'm afraid.

Yeah you are right, "I want..," is not the right word. And yes, I need to become that reason. The "tough combination" is very reason why I mentioned 2nd M.Sc in physics, which I did wanted to pay for my self. I am not running away from my mistakes (if I did and I don't even have to rise this topic, things would have been lot easier to run away). Doing physics for most of the time changed my attitude and approach towards accepting my own mistakes. I like being stright forward.

Thank you Vanadium 50, I do agree with you, and you said,("..you did poorly and this time around you want someone else to pay for it for you"), I do not like anything free for myself (even if things such as items from supermarkets that are being offered for free, I do not accept it). I never got any scholarships. My schools + Degrees all self paid. I am not the brightest of all. Not just this, I failed many times in life. I just do not want to give up! thats all. As there are no short cuts in life, I like how reality works and thats how it should be. It's not easy for me to even post this on thread: How many people do you come across accepting their own mistakes in life ? every single day, right ? And realising one's own limitations and failures or harsh truths is the next step forward, Is it not ?

And yes, a fully funded physics M.Sc/p.hd. programs should be offered to those who are "truly" qualified or skilled and experienced. If I am not, I do not get it, and it is also a right thing to do. And dreams don't come for free. May be, I was not clear enough about how I described myself in this thread. Sorry!

 

[Vanadium 50]

I don't understand whether you need full support or not. If you can afford to pay tuition, you have more options.