Afghani Opium Farming In the Context of War: Perspectives

[FizixFreak]

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Or, perhaps she is looking into the lense and asking herself if it's true that, while she suffers, some people are permitted to engage in the illegal drug trade and reap huge profits?

I assume you are from America well if you are you are being shown only one side of the "picture" and this drug dealing that you talk about goes a lot deeper than you think the time when Taliban took control of the country the drug production fell flat but now when coalition forces have spent some 9-10 years the drug production has gone up how the hell do you justify that?

Are you telling me that the most sophisticated army on this planet cannot take on some skinny teenagers fighting with limited resources your military officials have declared Afghanistan an winnable war American army cannot beat the Taliban neither can they stop the drugs production in Afghanistan this really does not seem to make any sense well the truth is that America is not there to "win" the war against terrorism they are only there to take benefits of the "resources" of Afghanistan and they plan to stay there as long as required.

 

[WhoWee]

I assume you are from America well if you are you are being shown only one side of the "picture" and this drug dealing that you talk about goes a lot deeper than you think the time when Taliban took control of the country the drug production fell flat but now when coalition forces have spent some 9-10 years the drug production has gone up how the hell do you justify that?

Are you telling me that the most sophisticated army on this planet cannot take on some skinny teenagers fighting with limited resources your military officials have declared Afghanistan an winnable war American army cannot beat the Taliban neither can they stop the drugs production in Afghanistan this really does not seem to make any sense well the truth is that America is not there to "win" the war against terrorism they are only there to take benefits of the "resources" of Afghanistan and they plan to stay there as long as required.

Personally, I'm in favor of offering the technology/equipment (as required) to help the farmers raise food crops. Anyone who refuses - napalm. I hope that answers your question. I have ZERO tolerance for heroin.

 

[nismaratwork]

Personally, I'm in favor of offering the technology/equipment (as required) to help the farmers raise food crops. Anyone who refuses - napalm. I hope that answers your question. I have ZERO tolerance for heroin.

Firebomb a legal crop because some people use drugs? Yeah, I can see how well those strategies (paraquat anyone?) have worked... cocaine is practically gone, and I don't think anyone uses marijuana anymore...



You may not tolerate it, nor should you, but firebombing isn't effective.

@FizixFreak: We couldn't do it in Columbia, why would we be any more successfuil in Afghanistan?! Why should it be the problem of a military to control the drug trade that's been a part of Afghani life before there WAS a US military?

 

[FizixFreak]

@FizixFreak: We couldn't do it in Columbia, why would we be any more successfuil in Afghanistan?! Why should it be the problem of a military to control the drug trade that's been a part of Afghani life before there WAS a US military?

You know what i am honestly glad that you have asked this question why not in columbia? because the american government does not have a very good excuse for invasion but afghanistan is the perfect place for that and is technically more suitlbe for growing sh*t(that is a term for drugs in US i guess).

Ans yes before the inavasion there was a lot of drugs being produces but it almost stopped when taliban took control of afghanistan(i am NOT a supporter of taliban) and it stayed that way for a long time until the american invasion..., all right let's assume the american didnt triggered drug production i am ready to assume that for a while BUT now when coilation forces have been there for about a decade in that country the drugs are still being produces at a staggering rate now how would you explain that my friend! sure the americans must have tried to stop it and every now and then you hear news about how the army destroyed that many tons of drugs but then why it doesn't it just stops? how are these "terrorists" can outsmart the most sophisticated intelligence system and army? alright now you will say "it takes time for things to change" well it has been already a decade right? i think i have justified my self quite clearly and i am dying to hear a response if you are online please be quick.

And now that i am done typing i think i will smoke some sh*t to relax my self

 

[FizixFreak]

Personally, I'm in favor of offering the technology/equipment (as required) to help the farmers raise food crops. Anyone who refuses - napalm. I hope that answers your question. I have ZERO tolerance for heroin.

i don't really understand what you are trying to say can you please explain(my first language is not English).

 

[nismaratwork]

You know what i am honestly glad that you have asked this question why not in columbia? because the american government does not have a very good excuse for invasion but afghanistan is the perfect place for that and is technically more suitlbe for growing sh*t(that is a term for drugs in US i guess).

This is not an uncommon view, but in reality the USA tried for a very long time to use defoliants (مُزِيل وَرق ?) such as Paraquat, firebombing, and other means to destroy cocaine crops. The reality is that it just didn't work; we could bomb Columbia back into the bronze age, but we can kill the plants ONLY. In time, governments in other countries essentially told us to stick our herbacides and other policies where the sun doesn't shine.

AND...

...here is where you do have a point, but also where your point fails...

Coca (the leaf) is used in a "de-cocainized" form as a flavoring agent in beverages, and is recognized as a legal drug in some countries... not cocaine, not growing it... it's a bit odd.

Opium, the product of the poppy pod is ALSO useful in making medicinal opiates, and of course poppyseeds are delicious. Opium is not something I'd smoke, ever, but it's not exactly heroin either, and there is cultural recognition of that.

In short... our war on drugs has failed at ever turn: we need to treat where possible, and only focus on those violent offenders and drug pushers.

Ans yes before the inavasion there was a lot of drugs being produces but it almost stopped when taliban took control of afghanistan(i am NOT a supporter of taliban) and it stayed that way for a long time until the american invasion...,

I don't think that's a good trade, but don't worry, your religious and political position is not relevant to this; that's the beauty of discussion: we're discussing the issue, not each other.

[all right let's assume the american didnt triggered drug production i am ready to assume that for a while BUT now when coilation forces have been there for about a decade in that country the drugs are still being produces at a staggering rate now how would you explain that my friend! sure the americans must have tried to stop it and every now and then you hear news about how the army destroyed that many tons of drugs but then why it doesn't it just stops? how are these "terrorists" can outsmart the most sophisticated intelligence system and army? alright now you will say "it takes time for things to change" well it has been already a decade right? i think i have justified my self quite clearly and i am dying to hear a response if you are online please be quick.

And now that i am done typing i think i will smoke some sh*t to relax my self

Well, I don't believe that terrorists are growing poppies, do you? I DO believe that a country of farmers in a huge region can grow a crop unless we're willing to harm them to stop them. We're not... and the Afghanis don't want to stop; it's not like they have any better immidiate prospects.

So, we can't just start gunning down farmers trying to feed their families, and the smugglers ARE clever... hell, in Columbia they're using submarines! There is so much demand, and so much money involved...

We can offer alternatives, but to do so would involve re-making Afghan culture by force... I think that would be unwise.

 

[nismaratwork]

i don't really understand what you are trying to say can you please explain(my first language is not English).

He's saying that we should either give people the agricultural means to grow valuable crops other than poppy, and if they refuse, fire-bomb their fields.

I don't read Arabic at all... so this is a terrible Systran translation of the above:

"هُوَ يقولُ أَنّ نَحنُ سوفتُ إمَّا مرونةُ الناس ال means زِراعِيُّ أن ينموَ بروزُ قَيّمُ غَيرَ خشخاشُ, و إِنْ يرفُضُ هُم, fire-bomb مجالُ هُم."

 

[FizixFreak]

No, it was purely a guess... always a hit or miss affair. It's not meant as an insult by the way... if you are in the region, Urdu? Pashtun?

If not, and it's a romance, germanic, or slavic language I can do much better.


I have to admit, when I first 'met' you I would have guess South-American, but since... well... I think you've earned that laugh... heh.

one thing i forgot to ask is that how did you made the translation into Arabic? and it seems like you know other languages as well you seen like a very interesting man if i lived in the same city i would love to hang out with you and smoke some opium

My native language is Urdu by the way

 

[nismaratwork]

one thing i forgot to ask is that how did you made the translation into Arabic? and it seems like you know other languages as well you seen like a very interesting man if i lived in the same city i would love to hang out with you and smoke some opium

My native language is Urdu by the way

Heh... no drugs for me thanks, but I'm glad I wasn't completely off given the region. Sorry about assuming you spoke arabic however... that was thoughtless of me.


edit: Oh, I used systran.com , but be warned, online translators make a LOT of mistakes... for instance: "زراعت دیں. بم کے شعبوں جو لوگ احتجاج" "Give agriculture to people. Bomb fields of those who resist."

 

[nismaratwork]

You responding the way just like i thought you would but my friend you and you government needs to do a lot of explanation

(1)americans bombed afghanistan for usama and i wonder where the hell is that weed smoking bastard has hidden that even american intelligence has not been able to find him!

I truly believe that if we knew that answer, he'd be a smoking cratar.

(2)so you are admitting that the Taliban did tried and succeed to finish drug production and even if they did killed the people producing drugs there is nothing wrong with that(according to the religious laws) you find it cruel? well what is the punishment for such crime in USA?(maybe less harsh but you get the point)

I get the point, but Sharia is just not the way the USA operates. I think many here would say we treat criminals too easily, and others would say too harshly. I know this: Mercy is valuable... there is no mercy in how the Taliban quelled drug running... or how they profited from what was left.

[(3)and what is wrong with these farmers why do they insist on growing drugs? i think they will stop doing so if given a alternative mean for livelihood and protection from people who force them to do so seems like a hard task it will "take a decade to do so" i think the american can do that of course if they want to!

1.) It's more profitable than alternatives currently available
2.) Intersted parties, including tribal leaders make most of that money, and rule the farmers.

[(4)and if americans can't take down taliban or stop drugs production why are they here why not just go home and "chill".

Now THAT is a very good question that on average, which about half of America agrees with at any given time. I am part of that half: war is war... and we're going WAY beyond that into conquest. I'm not for that.

[(5)the international community has unanimously agreed that afghan is pointless and baseless but its not base less if you don't call it and it is not baseless if you consider the fact how much America has "earned" from it.

I don't know that we've earned anything from Afghanistan... as a nation. Some conractors did and do, but I think Afghanistan was truly a response to the attacks of 9.11. Iraq was purely an invasion, IMO.

[And by the way i don't do drugs the only drugs i did in my entire life was a few puffs of tobacco which i can actually count on my fingers.

I believe you! Shisha?... I tried that with a Kuwaiti friend... very flavorful and mild tobacco.

OK, I'm genuinely interested in continuing this, but we have to get a mentor to split this into anther thread. Mentors... hear the cry of your children!... too dramatic.

If a mentor could split this into a new thread, I'd appreciate it.

 

[FizixFreak]

I truly believe that if we knew that answer, he'd be a smoking cratar.
I get the point, but Sharia is just not the way the USA operates. I think many here would say we treat criminals too easily, and others would say too harshly. I know this: Mercy is valuable... there is no mercy in how the Taliban quelled drug running... or how they profited from what was left.
1.) It's more profitable than alternatives currently available
2.) Intersted parties, including tribal leaders make most of that money, and rule the farmers.
Now THAT is a very good question that on average, which about half of America agrees with at any given time. I am part of that half: war is war... and we're going WAY beyond that into conquest. I'm not for that.
I don't know that we've earned anything from Afghanistan... as a nation. Some conractors did and do, but I think Afghanistan was truly a response to the attacks of 9.11. Iraq was purely an invasion, IMO.
I believe you! Shisha?... I tried that with a Kuwaiti friend... very flavorful and mild tobacco.

OK, I'm genuinely interested in continuing this, but we have to get a mentor to split this into anther thread. Mentors... hear the cry of your children!... too dramatic.

If a mentor could split this into a new thread, I'd appreciate it.

(1)The Americans should not impose their "ways" on other countries specially when their way doesn't work it clear they don't want it to "work".

(2)You think islamic laws are too cruel?ahhhhhhhhhhhhh..., we can have an argument about that as well but for now(a)Islamic way works(b)American way doesn't

(3)so you agree with the fact that the war has been pointless good! first step to realizing the truth nice.

(4)what has America gained from the war money and lots of it which has helped it to remain the super power but obviously the plan has back fired

It feels like i am going into a circle in this argument but i think i will speak of the truth any way.

What did you say Shisha...,hahahahah you really are a cool guy Yes i tried Shisha once at my friends house its a pretty cool things but still bad for lungs.

 

[nismaratwork]

(1)The Americans should not impose their "ways" on other countries specially when their way doesn't work it clear they don't want it to "work".

Agreed, no country should impose a way of life on another, unless that way of life is so excetional (WWI, WWII...) that it cannot be ignored.

(2)You think islamic laws are too cruel?ahhhhhhhhhhhhh..., we can have an argument about that as well but for now(a)Islamic way works(b)American way doesn't

I think the American way is cruel too, but I understand why, and I understand why Sharia is what it is. I come from the view that emerging science is teaching us that much of what we consider to be criminality, is the result of various mental illnesses, addiction, and miserable circumstances. Unfortunately, science has been long on theories, and short on treatments... sociopaths, child molesters... don't seem to be helped much if at all. I'm left feeling we're cruel, but unsure as to alternatives.

(3)so you agree with the fact that the war has been pointless good! first step to realizing the truth nice.

Oh, I've never been for either war, not now, not 10 years ago. Something had to be done in Afghanistan, but it didn't have to be a war. That said, I don't think you'd like what the alternative is... I believe "drone" is actually a curse in Urdu now, yes?

(4)what has America gained from the war money and lots of it which has helped it to remain the super power but obviously the plan has back fired

It feels like i am going into a circle in this argument but i think i will speak of the truth any way.

I think Afghanistan was revenge, and prevention... Iraq was revenge and greed. I agree that both backfired, and continue to do so, not in the least for the people of Iraq.

What did you say Shisha...,hahahahah you really are a cool guy Yes i tried Shisha once at my friends house its a pretty cool things but still bad for lungs.

I did indeed, and it was just that time, but it WAS fun. I'm not a smoker, but it was so mild.

 

[FizixFreak]

I think the American way is cruel too, but I understand why, and I understand why Sharia is what it is. I come from the view that emerging science is teaching us that much of what we consider to be criminality, is the result of various mental illnesses, addiction, and miserable circumstances. Unfortunately, science has been long on theories, and short on treatments... sociopaths, child molesters... don't seem to be helped much if at all. I'm left feeling we're cruel, but unsure as to alternatives.

Yes i can't agree more on that.

Oh, I've never been for either war, not now, not 10 years ago. Something had to be done in Afghanistan, but it didn't have to be a war. That said, I don't think you'd like what the alternative is... I believe "drone" is actually a curse in Urdu now, yes?

I hope you are not implying that America should do the same in Pakistan(you don't real seem like that type of person so not a big deal) and about drone attacks...., i think even if i don't exaggerate thing AT LEAST 75% of the people killed in drone attacks are civilians and innocent don't get me started on this bull or there will be another argument i would probably say a lot of things about this topic just to take out my anger but just forget it.

I think Afghanistan was revenge, and prevention... Iraq was revenge and greed. I agree that both backfired, and continue to do so, not in the least for the people of Iraq.

I think this debate is taking another turn now i will do some research and try to give you some stats about this stuff my purpose isn't really to convince you but to get you thinking you can choose to believe any thing you want or any thing you conscious allows you to believe in

 

[nismaratwork]

Yes i can't agree more on that.



I hope you are not implying that America should do the same in Pakistan(you don't real seem like that type of person so not a big deal) and about drone attacks...., i think even if i don't exaggerate thing AT LEAST 75% of the people killed in drone attacks are civilians and innocent don't get me started on this bull or there will be another argument i would probably say a lot of things about this topic just to take out my anger but just forget it.

I'm not suggesting that we interfere in Pakistan's affairs; the only time I think that would be a world issue would be if India and Pakistan were on the brink of nuclear exchange, or an improbable collapse of the central government. Of course, that goes for ANY nuclear nation. We don't need to get into drones anyway; they certainly do kill a lot of civilians, and therefore it is a divisive issue. It seems to me that Al Qaeda and the rest just lost their footing with these uprisings in Tunisia, and Egypt. Why blow yourself up when you can oust MUBARAK in 18 days!

The best thing we can do now is defend, with as little provocation as possible. Most drone strikes are against Taliban, not Al Qaeda and older and newer groups, and the only reason we're killing Taliban (who I don't think are Talib at all) is that we're in Afghanistan... Where we SHOULD NOT BE. End one, end the other, and frankly, I don't like that we violate sovereign airspace with military craft; if it were done here for any reason, we'd go to all out war!

Still, I'm no expert on defense, and I think you're right... we should stick to the issues that are not so incredibly close to home. When "drone" becomes a curse, it's time to reconsider our foreign policy.

I think this debate is taking another turn now i will do some research and try to give you some stats about this stuff my purpose isn't really to convince you but to get you thinking you can choose to believe any thing you want or any thing you conscious allows you to believe in

I look forward to more exchagnes, and I hope the same: maybe somewhere between the propoganda our countries feed us, we can find some truth.

 

[Astronuc]

I have to wonder how a conversation on "Did hot women exist 2,000 years ago?" evolved into "Afghani Opium Farming In the Context of War: Perspectives",

but I don't want to know.

 

[Evo]

This appears to be a tiff between two people. Locked.