Am I too old to become a Prof?

[mad mathematician]

A little bit about myself.

I am BSc graduate (in math and physics combined), graduated in 2011.
After graduating my BSc I then pursued MSc also in both of them, though I didn't finish writing my theses in both of them.

Last year I started an MSc in EE without thesis component, since my work as a grader will get an increase in my salary (hope to graduate this 2025).

I have the option of course of becoming a math and physics teacher in high-school, though from people that I heard from they rarely find time to learn new stuff in math and physics since their work continues after the 8:00-16:00 hours of school.

So in the last few weeks Iv'e been think of perhaps applying to PhD in UK; BUT there's a huge conecrn that I have from previous years is that I had mental issues, even because of my mental issues I did succeed in getting good grades in my coursework in both MSc (arguably theoretical physics is my weakest topic); I am under medications so I hope this won't be an issue.

My biggest conecrn though is that after graduating (I am thinking of going part-time which I saw is something like (4-7 years in PhD in the UK), I'll be in my early-mid 40's, so it's a bit too late for a career ain't it?!

If I didn't have this mental issue, I guess I wouldn't even pursue my BSc in the first place let alone the other degrees.

BTW, the drink Monster is a HELL of a DRUG... helped me in my exam today.

 

[AlexB23]

A little bit about myself.

I am BSc graduate (in math and physics combined), graduated in 2011.
After graduating my BSc I then pursued MSc also in both of them, though I didn't finish writing my theses in both of them.
Last year I started an MSc in EE without thesis component, since my work as a grader will get an increase in my salary (hope to graduate this 2025).
I have the option of course of becoming a math and physics teacher in high-school, though from people that I heard from they rarely find time to learn new stuff in math and physics since their work continues after the 8:00-16:00 hours of school.
So in the last few weeks Iv'e been think of perhaps applying to PhD in UK; BUT there's a huge conecrn that I have from previous years is that I had mental issues, even because of my mental issues I did succeed in getting good grades in my coursework in both MSc (arguably theoretical physics is my weakest topic); I am under medications so I hope this won't be an issue.
My biggest conecrn though is that after graduating (I am thinking of going part-time which I saw is something like (4-7 years in PhD in the UK), I'll be in my early-mid 40's, so it's a bit too late for a career ain't it?!
If I didn't have this mental issue, I guess I wouldn't even pursue my BSc in the first place let alone the other degrees.


BTW, the drink Monster is a HELL of a DRUG... helped me in my exam today.

I am sorry that you had to go through a rough mental issue in your life. I had to quit college after 1.5 years as well due to mental issues, and may take online classes in the future.

Do not worry about age, as it is never too late to start a professional career. Just know, that as we live in a world that is quick to judge, sometimes, ageism may be a thing. So, be sure to check hiring reviews of colleges to make sure ageism is not a thing at those schools. Another solution is to find a college that uses a blind hiring process (where demographic info is unknown about you until you are hired).

 

[Frabjous]

You are not displaying a lot of passion which you will need in order to complete a PhD.
A PhD is not a guarantee of a professorship. Most PhD’s end up in industry.
You have had a couple of opportunities to write a thesis and you did not succeed. This is a concern.

 

[renormalize]

Another solution is to find a college that uses a blind hiring process (where demographic info is unknown about you until you are hired).

Is "blind" hiring even a possibility? I've never been a member of a college faculty, but I find it hard to believe that one can be hired for a professorship without having participated in multiple face-to-face interviews, as well as a seminar presentation and/or being observed while teaching a class. This all tends to make the age-range, race, gender, nationality, etc. of the applicant pretty evident.

 

[AlexB23]

Is "blind" hiring even a possibility? I've never been a member of a college faculty, but I find it hard to believe that one can be hired for a professorship without having participated in multiple face-to-face interviews, as well as a seminar presentation and/or being observed while teaching a class. This all tends to make the age-range, race, gender, nationality, etc. of the applicant pretty evident.

Blind hiring is very rare, but is gaining traction. In the US, only 1 in 5 organizations, according to a survey, use blind hiring.

From Harvard: "A recent survey of over 800 U.S.-based HR practitioners indicated that about 20% worked for organizations that used blind hiring and about 60% were familiar with it."

 

[renormalize]

From Harvard: "A recent survey of over 800 U.S.-based HR practitioners indicated that about 20% worked for organizations that used blind hiring and about 60% were familiar with it."

That's all well and good for hiring in general. But do you have any explicit examples of colleges or universities that practice blind hiring for faculty professorships?

 

[AlexB23]

That's all well and good for hiring in general. But do you have any explicit examples of colleges or universities that practice blind hiring for faculty professorships?

There was, overseas, but there is no further information on the results of the project.

In 2018, the University of Helsinki tried a blind hiring pilot project. The University of Helsinki tested anonymized applications for academic roles to reduce unconscious bias in hiring practices, stripping candidates' names, dates of birth, ethnicities, and genders from applications. This was part of a nationwide push in Finland towards greater equality in hiring.

Supporters for blind hiring argued that anonymized hiring could help limit bias against women and minorities, but experts questioned its effectiveness in academia. Critics argued that anonymization was impractical in academia, where publication records and scholarly reputation were crucial, and that bias could still occur during interviews. Despite concerns, Helsinki's deputy mayor for education expected anonymous hiring to catch on in universities, citing its potential to improve diversity and fairness. The university's pilot programs aimed to produce reliable data on the efficacy of anonymized recruitment by early 2019.

Source:
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/12/20/university-helsinki-tries-anonymized-academic-hiring

 

[renormalize]

Source:
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/12/20/university-helsinki-tries-anonymized-academic-hiring

Thanks for this reference. But the lack of follow-up in the last 5 years from this single example is troubling. My point is simply that, based on the current evidence, offering the possibility of "blind hiring" for a professorship to @mad mathematician is likely to give them false hope.

 

[AlexB23]

Thanks for this reference. But the lack of follow-up in the last 5 years from this single example is troubling. My point is simply that, based on the current evidence, offering the possibility of "blind hiring" for a professorship to @mad mathematician is likely to give them false hope.

You are welcome. The lack of followup from that example is quite troubling indeed, and I do not want to raise a false hope. Hopefully, OP can find a university that uses traditional hiring, but is open to folks of all ages. That would probably mean checking online job website reviews for any hiring discrimination.

 

[Vanadium 50]

@AlexB23 I too am shocked by the suggestion of "blind hiring". As far as "never too old", the OP could be in his 50s before starting a full-time position. That does not leave much time to integrate money for retirement.

Is there something in your background that gives you some special insight here?

 

[AlexB23]

@AlexB23 I too am shocked by the suggestion of "blind hiring". As far as "never too old", the OP could be in his 50s before starting a full-time position. That does not leave much time to integrate money for retirement.

Is there something in your background that gives you some special insight here?

There is nothing directly in my background, but I have heard of this term, though my mom took more college in her 40s, and became an ESL teacher in the 2010s. So, it goes to show that one can go to college at an older age and still get a job.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I see more problems than the OP.

(1) As mentioned, this has the OP starting to accumulate retirement savings late. And he may want to spend money even sooner.

(2) A 15-year gap is problematic. In the US, it would require you to repeat your coursework. Because grad admissions is competitive, you will need a good answer to why they should take you and not someone with a, shall we say, more conventional past. "I was sick and now am not" is not a reason to reject someone else.

(3) Your message show zero curiosity for any aspect of physics. Not a good sign. Why get a degree then?

(4) If your mental health issues were substance abuse issues - as you imply - and they have spilled over into legal issues, they may still cause you trouble.

 

[jtbell]

A PhD is not a guarantee of a professorship. Most PhD’s end up in industry.

A professor at a PhD-granting institution in the US might supervise a few tens of PhD students during his career. It takes only one person to replace him when he retires or dies. The total number of professorships is probably more or less constant, at best growing only slightly.

In the US we do have undergraduate-only institutions where the professors do not supervise graduate students. This increases the pool of professorships here by maybe a factor of about two. I became a professor at one of those places (retired now), but I recognize that I was lucky just because of the numbers. Whenever we had to hire, we had on the order of a hundred applicants, and interviewed three.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Is your mom the ESL teacher a tenured profressor? If not, maybe you should not overgeneralize.

 

[AlexB23]

Is your mom the ESL teacher a tenured profressor? If not, maybe you should not overgeneralize.

She is not a tenured professor, so I can not generalize. We should ask any professors here if any got hired at a later age.

 

[mad mathematician]

I see more problems than the OP.

(1) As mentioned, this has the OP starting to accumulate retirement savings late. And he may want to spend money even sooner.

(2) A 15-year gap is problematic. In the US, it would require you to repeat your coursework. Because grad admissions is competitive, you will need a good answer to why they should take you and not someone with a, shall we say, more conventional past. "I was sick and now am not" is not a reason to reject someone else.

(3) Your message show zero curiosity for any aspect of physics. Not a good sign. Why get a degree then?

(4) If your mental health issues were substance abuse issues - as you imply - and they have spilled over into legal issues, they may still cause you trouble.

No, the mental issues didn't arrise because of drug abuse (the last sentence was my mad sense of humour, not everyone gets it besides me).
Anyhow, I guess there's no harm in applying to PhD.

Another question is trying to decide between mathematical physics and analysis of PDEs in the pure Mathematics department.
In the UK it seems MP is part of the math departments (may they call it pure or applied seems superficial to me). The main subjects that interest me are QFT, GR; and obviously there's a lot of pure math being used there (I sort of like both of using the math and being absorbed by the math).
I guess first need to find an adviser.
One topic which I thought to be interesting is either really dig into the literature of string and M-theory, and actually defining what is that "M-theory", or falsifiying its existence mathematically; i.e showing that it leads to mathematical inconsistencies.
The problems whith such ambitious attempt are:
1. the time scope for PhD is not enough for such a project, unless also failed attempt is considered as a PhD dissertation
2. finding someone who is willing to advise of such a project.

Also what I wrote as an attempt for an MSc thesis, was I guess a failed attempt; though the project that I was given did make me raise some eyebrows when I discussed them with my adviser back then.
For me, I cannot give less than 100% of my effort (and part of my 100% efforts in anything are governed by not letting any sleep deprivation getting in the way, i.e believe me when I don't sleep enough then the mental issues start popping; you wouldn't like me when I am angry , I myself don't like it); but I guess my 100% efforts weren't good enough.

I guess I can keep the tutoring and grading stuff I have been doing until now, let's see how long it will take me before I'll become a high school teacher like Sylow...

 

[Vanadium 50]

I have tp say, that sounded extremely unfocused. That will not help you gain admission to a program - which is an obstacle you will need to overcome.

 

[PeroK]

The main subjects that interest me are QFT, GR; and obviously there's a lot of pure math being used there (I sort of like both of using the math and being absorbed by the math).

The mathematics of QFT is more like impure maths, if you ask me. It might give a pure mathematician apoplexy!

 

[Vanadium 50]

Let me add a 5th problem to your list - the EE degree.

If you don't finish it, it's a black mark.
If you do, and then apply to another program, it cries out "perpetual student!"

I think there are no good choices here.