Americans lacking in geographic knowledge

[ZapperZ]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060502/ap_on_re_us/where_s_louisiana

Now add this to the miserable literacy in science, I'd say we have it made.

Zz.

 

[Gokul43201]

So, is this part of the generic problem with inadequate (middle/high) school level education; is it mostly a problem (in general) with the attitudes of the students; or is this something specific to teaching/learning geography (& science & math) ?

Opinions ?

 

[Dawguard]

I'd say its sheer lack of education in everything. The level of education is horribly low, spawning a culture that gobbles up the ambivalent nothingness of empty entertainment. It's not focused on one area of academics: its a problem that covers every level of education. Consider the literacy rate, general knowledge of science, or basic geography such as this.

 

[Astronuc]

So, is this part of the generic problem with inadequate (middle/high) school level education; is it mostly a problem (in general) with the attitudes of the students; or is this something specific to teaching/learning geography (& science & math) ?

Probably some combination of the educational system and attitudes of students. I don't believe it is unique to geography.

The attitudes of students are influenced by the attitudes of parents, and sadly, I think many parents are not sufficiently concerned about the education of their children.

I visited the local high school last year, and I was very disappointed in the majority of students as reflected by their comments.

There are bright students out there, but they are a minority.

 

[theCandyman]

I have to say when I was in grade school, I was awful at geography. I would get a sheet of paper with unlabeled countries or states and be clueless. I had a general idea of where the states or nations were, but I was unfamiliar with the shapes. Now if I had received a map with some of the other locations labeled around it, I would not have had much trouble. I ended up learning that way, I memorized the locations of a few key states, and filled in the rest through being somewhat familiar with the regions.

30% thought the US/Mexico was the most fortified border? How odd, almost funny.

 

[DeadWolfe]

You get what ou ask for. We don't make education a priorit - in fact people who know more are often looked down more then respected, so it's no surprise when education suffers.

 

[arildno]

I HATED geography; we had a teacher who went under a name like Old Foggy, and I can say with absolute honesty that I haven't got a clue to what his classes were about. (I remember some excursions to look at some stones, but that's all).

Can't find Lousiana on a map?
Heck, I'm not always able to find my way home..

 

[Pengwuino]

I wonder how many countries do well in geographical knowledge in the first place. I know vector calculus, bits of quantum physics, and a fair amount of computer science... but damn, i can't find my nose on my face with a mirror let alone all 50 capitals.

I think an insignificant part of the problem (although its a big problem for me personally) might be that... who cares? I personally would never waste my time learning what all the capitals are if i could be using that time to learn more quantum mechanics.

I also seem to notice that there is an absolutely illogical connection between 'knowledge of world events' and geography. Not that it has anyhting to do with the thread.

 

[Pengwuino]

Can't find Lousiana on a map?
Heck, I'm not always able to find my way home..

Hell I am lucky I only have my house, university, and big fast-food area to remember in my city. Anything more and i'd be lost 1/2 the day.

 

[franznietzsche]

Six in 10 did not know the border between North and
South Korea is the most heavily fortified in the world. Thirty percent thought the most heavily fortified border was between the United States and Mexico.

Nearly three-quarters incorrectly named English as the most widely spoken native language.

Ok, I'm good...no I'm not



Ok...weeee...

 

[JasonRox]

Considering most people think that too much education is retarded, I'd say things will only get worse and not better.

Reading itself is considered a weird/odd past time. Most people react like "Why the hell would you read a book that is not assigned to you by the teacher or even the book that IS assigned to you when you can just watch the movie?".

Being curious is also considered odd and sometimes probably stupid/retarded. Their usual answer is simply... "That's the way it is.", "Who cares.", and/or some non-sense explanation like they thought of it on the spot.

Choosing to learn something is also considered weird/odd, stupid/retarded or flat out f@c&ed up. This is why choosing to become anything that does not concern money is basically not socially acceptable. Choosing to become a professor, scientists, and/or the like is just weird until you get the job if the job pays well otherwise still weird. Choosing to become a doctor is only acceptable because it makes money. Consider the reaction people get when you say you want to be a doctor, "Man, you'll make lots of money!", and/or "What kind of car will you drive?". It's never for the benefit of the people. Becoming a lawyer is like "Whoa! You must be very smart. You'll be rich too!" while being completely oblivious to the fact that being a scientists requires the same amount of intelligence if not more. (You can't compare really, so let's avoid that debate).

The focus of western society is simply the three y's easy, lazy, and money.

Things that seem to be socially acceptable...

For careers...

- Doctor
- Lawyer
- Business Person
- Teachers (sometimes not though)

Mechanics, plumbers, scientists, and so on are not one of those because you must either be dumb or f@c&ed up.

Why isn't Engineer on the list? This is because an Engineer would have to work hard during school, and to get things going at the beginning. This is considered too much work for the money.

For past times...

- Reading Newspaper and/or Magazine articles, but not necessarily finishing them because some are just too long.
- Watching TV.
- Drinking Beer.
- Staring at the wall.
- Sleeping after sleeping.
- Eating.
- Ocassional book, but it must be VERY popular and fiction.
- Gossiping. The more the better. However annoying it is sometimes for everyone, everyone enjoys it anyways because it's entertaining.

The list goes on.

Things that are not socially acceptable.

For past times...

- Reading a book, especially if you finish it and/or if it is non-fiction.
- Learning something new. Taking a new course, exploring for yourself, and/or reading a textbook. Especially going back to school.
- Playing sports for fun. (Considered a waste of time if you're not going/planning to become pro.)
- Thinking.

The list goes on.

Anyways, this is the image of the general public that I see. People say it's cool to you're face, but personally you can see that they rather do something else or take another way because what you are doing is just too much work if any at all. Like keeping the same lame job and trying to win the lottery because that's easier.

Of course, I seem pessimistic about this, but I was once optimistic. I tried to pass on the idea of a positive happy life, but that itself is considered retarded. For that reason, this society is just digging itself into a big hole of nothingness and closed-mindedness.

Even though I am pessimistic right now, I still do try to pass around the positive happy life. I don't advertise or anything, but when people complain (I complain too), I try to bring in another perspective for them to see although it's usually always rejected as retarded.

There is just so much emphasis on being right, making money, and the world circling perfectly around them that whenever of one these things goes slightly wrong everyone goes nuts. Since the world is clearly never perfect, they are always going nuts.

Note: I know it's a long post, but I did re-read it.

 

[Rach3]

I also seem to notice that there is an absolutely illogical connection between 'knowledge of world events' and geography.

Whaaa?

How can one possibly understand world politics without knowing such "trivia" () like, oh say... Iraq has a border with Iran? India has a border with Pakistan? The United States does not, in fact, compromise 95% of the world's landmass (as some of our nationalists actually believe)? The distance between California and North Korea is much greater than the range of their No Dong missiles (though Japan isn't so lucky)? The Ukraine sits between central Europe and Russia?

 

[Pengwuino]

Whaaa?

How can one possibly understand world politics without knowing such "trivia" () like, oh say... Iraq has a border with Iran? India has a border with Pakistan? The United States does not, in fact, compromise 95% of the world's landmass (as some of our nationalists actually believe)? The distance between California and North Korea is much greater than the range of their No Dong missiles (though Japan isn't so lucky)? The Ukraine sits between central Europe and Russia?

I'm not talking about those kinds of things. I'm talking about these silly studies where they ask someone to point to argentina on a map or brazil or niger and when they can't, they make this stupid connection towards the person's knowledge about internaitonal affairs.

 

[Danger]

Reminds me of when I was living back East. Middle of July, 105 degrees F., 99% humidity, and people were coming south across the border from Detroit with skis on top of their cars. When they looked around all puzzled and asked where the snow was, we'd tell them to turn around the way they came from and go about 1,000 miles.

 

[BobG]

I HATED geography; we had a teacher who went under a name like Old Foggy, and I can say with absolute honesty that I haven't got a clue to what his classes were about. (I remember some excursions to look at some stones, but that's all).

Can't find Lousiana on a map?
Heck, I'm not always able to find my way home..

I'll give you a hint. Your home isn't in South America. hehehehehehe

... but damn, i can't find my nose on my face with a mirror let alone all 50 capitals.

Instead of trying to find all 50 capitals on your face, you should try Proactive. It works wonders.

Oh, I'm going to hell for sure now. Making fun of some poor soul's acne problem.

 

[berkeman]

I wonder how many countries do well in geographical knowledge in the first place. I know vector calculus, bits of quantum physics, and a fair amount of computer science... but damn, i can't find my nose on my face with a mirror let alone all 50 capitals.

I think an insignificant part of the problem (although its a big problem for me personally) might be that... who cares? I personally would never waste my time learning what all the capitals are if i could be using that time to learn more quantum mechanics.

I agree 100%. You can look up the answer to basically any geographical question in a couple minutes with an encyclopedia or a globe, or in a few seconds with google. You cannot figure out how to solve a complex DiffEq or design a high-speed FPGA circuit without having studied the subjects in great detail. It's important to be able to look up geographic info accurately when needed. IMO, it's not an important thing to keep at hand mentally -- that space is too important for other things.

 

[Astronuc]

When I was growing up, I was intrigued by people from other parts of the world. My father worked for the World Council of Churches for a brief period. We entertained people from all over the world.

One of my fondest gifts was a world atlas, and I used to spend hours looking at the continents and countries. I have several atlases, since the world has changed quite a lot in 40 years, and is still changing. I also like to collect atlases in other languages.

I don't think knowledge of geography should be trivialized. I hope to visit as many countries as possible in my lifetime.

As for current events, it's nice to have some knowledge since I don't count on the media to get it right.

 

[Pengwuino]

I agree 100%. You can look up the answer to basically any geographical question in a couple minutes with an encyclopedia or a globe, or in a few seconds with google. You cannot figure out how to solve a complex DiffEq or design a high-speed FPGA circuit without having studied the subjects in great detail. It's important to be able to look up geographic info accurately when needed. IMO, it's not an important thing to keep at hand mentally -- that space is too important for other things.

Oh boy! That reminds me of some strange as hell conversation I had a while ago with someone saying physics is easy and that all science was easy "because I can just look it up in a book and know what you will study for years to know". Sounds like a future welfare-client.

 

[Gokul43201]

I agree 100%. You can look up the answer to basically any geographical question in a couple minutes with an encyclopedia or a globe, or in a few seconds with google. You cannot figure out how to solve a complex DiffEq or design a high-speed FPGA circuit without having studied the subjects in great detail. It's important to be able to look up geographic info accurately when needed. IMO, it's not an important thing to keep at hand mentally -- that space is too important for other things.

Well, I guess if National Geographic conducted tests on Math or Science or Engineering, they'd find Americans doing better than the rest of the silly world that wastes brain space on easily lookupable geographic trivia ?

Pengwuino : How would others have done ?

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=101350&highlight=geographic

As for the questions asked, we are NOT talking about knowing where Argentina is (though in my opinion, South America - excluding the Caribbean - is maybe the only continent where you don't have an excuse for not knowing every country); we are talking about Louisiana, New York (only 50% could point out NY state on the US map), Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and North Korea - the first places any good xenophobe should know about.

 

[Pengwuino]

As for the questions asked, we are NOT talking about knowing where Argentina is (though in my opinion, South America - excluding the Caribbean - is maybe the only continent where you don't have an excuse for not knowing every country); we are talking about Louisiana, New York (only 50% could point out NY state on the US map), Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and North Korea - the first places any good xenophobe should know about.

So the rest of the world is more xenophobic then us?

 

[Gokul43201]

Kills a joke to have to explain it...

 

[scott1]

I HATED geography; we had a teacher who went under a name like Old Foggy, and I can say with absolute honesty that I haven't got a clue to what his classes were about. (I remember some excursions to look at some stones, but that's all).

World geography was my favorit class last semseter. The teacher was very good teacher(even thought I think he spent to much time on the United states and Canada) he did good powerpoint prestions and he explained everything really well. I think if it's more of the teachers fault if the sutdents failing geography. There's seems to be too much 2D maps on overhead projecters ours used used projectors(not overhead) with big pictures of the places that were studying.

 

[Pengwuino]

Kills a joke to have to explain it...

Man this forum needs a lesson in joke-making. I laugh more in my chemistry lab. After spilling nitric acid on my hand. While falling out a window.

 

[heartless]

I didn't know I don't know so much about social sciences and the like. I scored 14 out of 20. That's pretty bad,

Wrongs,
Which of these cities is the setting for the original television series CSI: Crime Scene Investigation?

In which of these countries did a catastrophic earthquake occur in October 2005, killing over 70,000 people?

In 2004, what percentage of population growth in the U.S. was due to immigration?

Which of the following was not a significant contributing factor in Hurricane Katrina's impact on the city of New Orleans?

Which language is spoken by the most people in the world as their primary language? (no I didn't vote for english )

Which of these countries is the world's largest exporter of goods and services measured in dollar value?

All the rest has gotten plain 20?

 

[Rach3]

That CSI question was moronic - what was it doing there? What the heck do TV soap operas have to do with geography and world affairs?

Fie on the authors.

 

[Rach3]

Well, I guess if National Geographic conducted tests on Math or Science or Engineering, they'd find Americans doing better than the rest of the silly world that wastes brain space on easily lookupable geographic trivia ?

Touche!

 

[Mk]

Well, I guess if National Geographic conducted tests on Math or Science or Engineering, they'd find Americans doing better than the rest of the silly world that wastes brain space on easily lookupable geographic trivia ?

Betcha Japan would still beat us.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

You Yanks are really backward, I can point LA out on a map and NY and Washington and Pakistan and Australia and Tsurinam and Nepal and even some regions of countries and know many capitals, I once memorised them all for a bet though so that's not really a fair comparison(as I still remember some of them) But then Geography is part of the national curriculum in England(ie you have to study it) For me knowing the capiltal of countries and precise locations isn't all that important. Not knowing a countries, beliefs it's traditions it's form of government it's reason for that government, it's recent history, it's technology level, problems and attitudes is far more worrying, particularly if you are a politician or a soldier.

The effect of ignorance there can be far more damaging. Before the invasion could Bush have pointed out Iraq on the map and told us their history from post colonial English state to present day, I doubt it :) In fact I doubt he could do it now, I suspect if asked to point to Iraq he'd point to Iran though

 

[Moonbear]

I agree 100%. You can look up the answer to basically any geographical question in a couple minutes with an encyclopedia or a globe, or in a few seconds with google. You cannot figure out how to solve a complex DiffEq or design a high-speed FPGA circuit without having studied the subjects in great detail. It's important to be able to look up geographic info accurately when needed. IMO, it's not an important thing to keep at hand mentally -- that space is too important for other things.

I have to agree with this. The important things I learned in geography didn't include memorizing state capitals or the location of every country in the world or every capital of every country, but did include how to read a map. Some of my friends were great a memorizing those things; they could just rattle off state capitals and such. It's not worth memorizing tons of picky details that can be easily looked up...in any field. Know general concepts...be able to orient yourself on a map, have general ideas of where a country or state is located, and then look it up if you can't remember that one and need to know to get yourself there.

 

[Mk]

But it is important, also, to know some stuff off of the top of your head. Like National Geographic could ask something like "Where is Bagdhad, and would you like to live there?" You should be able to answer correctly.

 

[ZapperZ]

Well, I disagree, because you guys are looking at the trees and missing the forrest.

Notice that the survey put in CONTEXT the question they asked. I mean, they're not asking for someone to point to the island of Samoa, or the location of some obscure places. They're asking for places which (i) have impacted our lives (ii) have been in the news A LOT (iii) have been a major topic of conversation for the majority of us.

To me, considering the impact of Hurricane Katrina to the US, and NOT knowing where the state is, shows an utter ignorance and lack of caring of the news. It shows that even for events that have significant impact to our lives, some people are content to simply have a superficial knowledge of the situation. They are too lazy to even care where it is occurring in relations to where they are. Just think, of they can't even bother to even LOOK at where these places are, how much do you think they'll bother in figuring out the intricate issues surrounding these things? How many of those who can't point out where Isreal is located actually put in any effort to figure out why we are so involved in that region in the first place?

These are symptoms, folks, not the cause! Symptoms of a contentment for mediocrity. And then we complain that these politicians are liars and how bad things are! When people are content to simply get their info from sound bites and fancy messages with bells and whistles, then this is what we all deserve!

Zz.

 

[Astronuc]

. . . . be able to orient yourself on a map, have general ideas of where a country or state is located, and then look it up if you can't remember that one and need to know to get yourself there.

I think in some tests (perhaps this one too), students are given maps, and many still can't identify states or countries.

I'd probably miss the question on CSI because I don't watch TV, except for news or science programs.

I second ZapperZ's comments!

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

But it is important, also, to know some stuff off of the top of your head. Like National Geographic could ask something like "Where is Bagdhad, and would you like to live there?" You should be able to answer correctly.

Bagdhad is the Capital of Iraq and it lies in the area known as the fertile crescent between the Euphrates and Tigris rivers, historically it is situated close to the ancient capital of the Babylonian Empire. And no I wouldn't want to live there not in a month of sundays, it's comparitively peaceful atm but that could change in a heartbeat.

I agree basic knowledge like this is fundemental. If you don't know where a country is or what it's history is then you have no business being there at all. Soldiers should be required to learn a countries state and economics and history as basic part of training, and kids should know this basic stuff too by the time they leave school.

 

[siddharth]

On a lighter note, though this video may have come up before.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2587661313510275113"

 

[Rach3]

...it's comparitively peaceful atm...

Compared to...?