Here comes COVID-19 version BA.2, BA.4, BA.5,...

[pinball1970]

Some better news

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2023-08-long-term-reaffirms-benefits-covid-vaccination.html

 

[Laroxe]

It does seem that the Covid virus is continuing its quest to decide on its best form, though it does seem that our monitoring has gotten a bit out of hand. Most infections now appear to be due to variants of the original omicron and it can be difficult to decide if the observed changes are significant. It does seem that the main changes in the omicron variant were in its very short incubation period, this makes it difficult for our immune system to rapidly increase our immune response, even after vaccination. It also has varying degrees on antibody evasion, particularly to those that target the spike protein and as the virus tends to produce milder illness, people are more likely to continue to engage socially, facilitating further spread. The only differences seen in the sub variants is in the mutations in the spike protein, which might alter the antibody sensitivity. However because we produce a wide range of antibodies following vaccination or infection and some clearly attach to conserved areas of the virus, our immune system does tend to rapidly catch up with the infection and control the virus, preventing more serious disease. There is significant cross immunity between all the Covid variants, much more so than we see with flu, and it looks as if some of the immune responses are much more enduring than previously thought. This is never absolute as this virus does appear quite good at causing autoimmune reactions and can attack the immune system directly. Having said that it seems unlikely that a more dangerous variant will develop, the virus seems to have hit on an ideal strategy to maintain its fitness. I suspect that a virus that causes a more seer illness would lead to people staying at home and so reduce its opportunity to spread.
Any way, just to keep you on your toes, Medscape report that a variant known as EG 5 (or Eris), a descendent of XBB has become the dominant variant in the USA (17% of all cases). It's found globally and accounts for 1 in 10 Covid cases in the UK At some point we should see one variant becoming persistent over time but by reporting every single change maybe not, viruses do change.
https://www.medscape.com/s/viewarti...ExcNews_etid5770381&uac=29315AJ&impID=5770381

 

[kyphysics]

Got my new updated COVID booster yesterday.

Feel horrrrrible today! Like a truck ran over me and I have zero energy left to even move. Gosh - this fatigue is major (even beyond or equal to my worst days with diabetic fatigue). Massive headache, chills, and tiredness.
Literally could not concentrate on any work and called it a day. It'd take me extended time to even do basic arithmetic today. . . . .let's see how long this lasts.

Good luck to all getting their boosters!

 

[pinball1970]

Got my new updated COVID booster yesterday.

Feel horrrrrible today! Like a truck ran over me and I have zero energy left to even move. Gosh - this fatigue is major (even beyond or equal to my worst days with diabetic fatigue). Massive headache, chills, and tiredness.
Literally could not concentrate on any work and called it a day. It'd take me extended time to even do basic arithmetic today. . . . .let's see how long this lasts.

Good luck to all getting their boosters!

Hope you well soon

 

[kyphysics]

Hope you well soon

Thanks!

Saw this today and thought others might like:

 

[nsaspook]

Thanks!

Saw this today and thought others might like:

OMG, will this guy (EFD) never stop.

 

[kyphysics]

I sometimes think EFD is alarmist, but he does provide a lot of valuable info.

 

[Laroxe]

Well it's clear that Covid 19 isn't over, and it might be with us for some time, but the reports of side effects to the new vaccine are a bit worrying. It is starting to look as if the regulators are using different standards in regulating this vaccine, and this seems to be reflected in the different recommendations seen in different countries. Considering the evidence that the monovalent vaccine does result in much higher antibody levels towards the current variants, this does, at least suggest, a higher risk of immunogenic adverse effects. I wonder if the shorter evaluation period, with fewer subjects, would have picked this up.

There is currently an increase in cases and hospitalisations, which interestingly doesn't appear linked to the newer variants. The increase is nothing like the numbers seen in last summer's surge, and might simply reflect the increasing travel seen in the summer months. Having said that the fact that case numbers are no longer monitored, we have no clear idea of numbers in the community.

https://www.medscape.com/s/viewarticle/it-may-be-time-pay-attention-covid-again-2023a1000ipk

 

[kyphysics]

It's Saturday. Got boosted Thursday...few side-effects/symptoms until late-night/early-morning-after when I woke to use the restroom. I felt pain in my arm during those bathroom trips and increasing fatigue and headache.

Friday - after about 9AM - was when I had the truck ran over me feeling described above/earlier.

Today, I had a slow fatigued, headache-y morning, but by dinner time I am practically symptom free. Hoping the worst is over from my COVID booster. This latest Moderna booster basically gave me approximately 1.5 days worth of very bad symptoms. . . .Not bad and well-worth it to product my father (who is in very poor health).

 

[kyphysics]

Well it's clear that Covid 19 isn't over, and it might be with us for some time, but the reports of side effects to the new vaccine are a bit worrying. It is starting to look as if the regulators are using different standards in regulating this vaccine, and this seems to be reflected in the different recommendations seen in different countries. Considering the evidence that the monovalent vaccine does result in much higher antibody levels towards the current variants, this does, at least suggest, a higher risk of immunogenic adverse effects. I wonder if the shorter evaluation period, with fewer subjects, would have picked this up.

There is currently an increase in cases and hospitalisations, which interestingly doesn't appear linked to the newer variants. The increase is nothing like the numbers seen in last summer's surge, and might simply reflect the increasing travel seen in the summer months. Having said that the fact that case numbers are no longer monitored, we have no clear idea of numbers in the community.

https://www.medscape.com/s/viewarticle/it-may-be-time-pay-attention-covid-again-2023a1000ipk

Wait, so we no longer track COVID cases, yet we know cases and hospitalizations are up? Am I misunderstanding?

I know my local hospital no longer posts daily case counts. They stopped in early 2023, IIRC.

As for the latest boosters (I got Moderna's Spikevax), is there a reason they don't do bivalent anymore. My last booster before Spikevax was a Pfizer bivalent one. Is there anything wrong with a bivalent booster? I tried searching, but don't see anything. Searches just say bivalent boosters should not be used anymore.

 

[mathwonk]

After 6 vaccines, the last in spring 2023, I traveled to Scotland for a week to visit family. I was one of the few people masked. Ate in numerous restaurants. On return home, had symptoms a day later, and came down with multiple symptom covid within hours.

Worst flu like disease in the last 50 years, miserable for 5 days, but not hospitalized. Recovering after 6 days, still positive and isolating. Perhaps the paxlovid cycle helped, and if it was this bad with it, what would it have been without it? Bottom line - risk definitely not over, take care.

The grandson we visited in Scotland is now quite sick, and most students in his college classes are coughing.

Latest (Fall) boosters were not available here yet when I left on the trip.

edit Oct 4: after 5 days felt better, tested negative twice. Then got symptoms again, tested positive again 9 days after first positive test. Felt poorly but not as bad as first round. Still slightly positive and symptomatic today, 16 days after first positive test. My wife got it after my 9th day, and is still positive. But we are not hospitalized. Just tired of this.

Our own regimen is vaccines, masks, isolation for as long as it takes to test negative more than once. My wife and I had to do an errand together, and I suspect she got it from me in the car.

Be careful, a lot of us are in the higher risk group.

edit: Oct 10: now my wife has covid/paxlovid rebound. I am still slightly positive after 21 days and my wife who was negative for three days after paxlovid cycle, now is strongly positive again on her 10th day since first positive test.

The 4 free tests are going quickly.

My octogenarian buddy got it in May, rebounded and was positive 28 days, so in my small realm of experience, rebound is the norm for us elders.

Most I know who got it did so after traveling, and/or attending large convocations.

 

[Tom.G]

is there a reason they don't do bivalent anymore.

IIRC, the stated rational was (paraphrased)

'Almost everyone has already been either vaccinated or has already caught the Covid version that the old vaccines cover. The hospitals are no longer overloaded so there is no longer an emergency.'

My first impression was, Perhaps hard-nosed, but eminently practical!
(Do you take a Cold Medicine when you don't have a Cold or the sniffles?)

Cheers,
Tom

 

[pinball1970]

Wait, so we no longer track COVID cases, yet we know cases and hospitalizations are up? Am I misunderstanding?

I know my local hospital no longer posts daily case counts. They stopped in early 2023, IIRC.

As for the latest boosters (I got Moderna's Spikevax), is there a reason they don't do bivalent anymore. My last booster before Spikevax was a Pfizer bivalent one. Is there anything wrong with a bivalent booster? I tried searching, but don't see anything. Searches just say bivalent boosters should not be used anymore.

Mine is booked for 25th October so I'll see if different from last year which was bivalent. (UK)
My Influenza A was Quadrivalent 2022.

 

[pinball1970]

IIRC, the stated rational was (paraphrased)

'Almost everyone has already been either vaccinated or has already caught the Covid version that the old vaccines cover. The hospitals are no longer overloaded so there is no longer an emergency.'

My first impression was, Perhaps hard-nosed, but eminently practical!
(Do you take a Cold Medicine when you don't have a Cold or the sniffles?)

Cheers,
Tom

Getting to endemic status as per Influenza A with seasons and annual jabs for vulnerable groups for A and covid is where we are. I will take that.
Wearing a mask from Oct-Feb (UK flu season ) in public/ confined spaces I think is best for me now as a personal choice.
I am unlikely to die (statistically) but I don't want to be flat on my back for five days.

 

[Laroxe]

Wait, so we no longer track COVID cases, yet we know cases and hospitalizations are up? Am I misunderstanding?

I know my local hospital no longer posts daily case counts. They stopped in early 2023, IIRC.

As for the latest boosters (I got Moderna's Spikevax), is there a reason they don't do bivalent anymore. My last booster before Spikevax was a Pfizer bivalent one. Is there anything wrong with a bivalent booster? I tried searching, but don't see anything. Searches just say bivalent boosters should not be used anymore.

It was decided virtually everywhere that the sort of population level surveillance that used to happen no longer serves a purpose. There are still some types of surveillance used, the testing of waste water for Covid RNA and other virus particles seems to be used in some places. This can, it seems, give a reasonable indicator of the rate of infection in the population. Hospitalisations and deaths are always recorded, so changes in them continue to be monitored.
Because the level of antibodies needed to prevent infection (in some) is very high, they were looking at ways to increase antibody production, particularly the most active antibodies against the current variants causing disease. While the original vaccines continue to provide some protection against severe disease, it was thought that because of what has been described as original antigenic sin, the inclusion of the older variants in the vaccine interfered with the antibody production for the newer variants. Our immune system putting greater effort into targeting the variant it first encountered. In the new monovalent vaccines, the immune system is only exposed to one of the more recent variants, and it does seem that this induces higher levels of the more active antibodies.
It still isn't clear what effect this will have on the transmission and spread, but it may provide some added protection for a few months after the booster. All of the vaccines continue to offer significant protection against severe disease.

 

[expontum]

Popular article referring to the BA.2 variant:Popular article: (many words, little data)
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/17/health/ba-2-covid-severity/index.html

Preprint article referring to the BA.2 variant:Preprint article: (At 52 pages, too many words!)
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.02.14.480335v1.full.pdf

[edited 1hr. after posting: Added preprint Abstract]
Cheers,
Tom

Sending over this COVID resource in case it's helpful in your research or daily work: Expontum (https://www.expontum.com/) - Helps students and researchers quickly find knowledge gaps and identify what research projects have been completed before. https://www.expontum.com/knowledgegaps.php?subj=COVID-19

 

[morrobay]

I am unvaccinated for SARS-CoV-2 and don't have antibodies, rapid test today. Sure I've been exposed many times like in this wet market. So my T cells are most likely preventing infection (seroconvrsion/antibodies) Maybe it's best now to stop running scared and upgrade your physical health, my BMI. Is 21. Correct me if I'm wrong: My understanding is that T - cells can target non mutating viral proteins and up to 30 antigen epitopes -

 

[dlgoff]

Got my new updated COVID booster yesterday.

Feel horrrrrible today! Like a truck ran over me and I have zero energy left to even move. Gosh - this fatigue is major (even beyond or equal to my worst days with diabetic fatigue). Massive headache, chills, and tiredness.
Literally could not concentrate on any work and called it a day. It'd take me extended time to even do basic arithmetic today. . . . .let's see how long this lasts.

Good luck to all getting their boosters!

I just got my updated COVID booster a couple hours. Hope it doesn't make me feel horrible tomorrow.

 

[Astronuc]

I'll be getting Covid (SARS-Cov-2) booster, Influenza and RSV simultaneously. I'll report on any reaction.

Meanwhile - Men at greater risk of severe Covid - and now experts may know why
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...ovid-and-now-experts-may-know-why/ar-AA1hG5w9

This is the conclusion of a team of researchers from University of Toronto, who conducted studies on mice into the role of the protein in cases of COVID-19.

They report that men only have one copy of the ACE2 gene - meaning that, when infected, too much of the protein is occupied by the virus and its protective role is compromised.

While the study has only been conducted in mice, it is likely the same mechanism is contributing to sex-based differences in Covid outcomes in humans as well.

Furthermore, the team proposes that synthetic ACE2 proteins might be given to people as protection in high Covid-risk situations, and as a therapy in hospitals.

See the PF thread on ACE-2 decoy.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...solution-to-covid-19-using-ace2-decoy.987905/

 

[dlgoff]

Hope it doesn't make me feel horrible tomorrow.

Just a bit of a sore triceps. Took a couple of Ibuprofen and all is okay.

 

[berkeman]

Just a bit of a sore triceps deltoid muscle.

Fixed that for you.

 

[dlgoff]

Fixed that for you.

Thank you sir.

 

[Astronuc]

Just a bit of a sore triceps. Took a couple of Ibuprofen and all is okay.

Just got my triple. No soreness.

I believe it is the deltoid anterior or clavicular part (pars clavicularis) in my case. I received RSV and Pfizer/BioNTech Covid in the left shoulder, and Influenza in the right shoulder. Now waiting for a reaction.

 

[berkeman]

I shot hoops after getting my flu vax yesterday in my left deltoid to try to help loosen it up, and it seems to have helped. Only a tiny soreness today. The bigger question is which deltoid should I get the COV booster in tomorrow... I think I'll go for the left one again and go shoot more hoops after...

 

[Astronuc]

I shot hoops after getting my flu vax yesterday in my left deltoid to try to help loosen it up, and it seems to have helped. Only a tiny soreness today. The bigger question is which deltoid should I get the COV booster in tomorrow... I think I'll go for the left one again and go shoot more hoops after...

I lifted weights - before and after. I can feel some irritation on my left side, but nothing on my right.

No fever, fatigue or discomfort, so far.

 

[dlgoff]

I think I'll go for the left one again ...

So, how's the arm?

 

[berkeman]

So, how's the arm?

It's okay. Deltoid muscle soreness from the 2nd shot was more than the flu vax a couple days ago, so I took a couple IB this morning and still shot hoops this afternoon. So far no side effects from the latest COV booster.

 

[kyphysics]

still shot hoops this afternoon. So far no side effects from the latest COV booster.

Off-topic: Are you any good at hoops? My favorite sport (to watch and play)!

 

[berkeman]

Off-topic: Are you any good at hoops? My favorite sport (to watch and play)!

Since it's OT, I'll respond via PM.

 

[kyphysics]

Anecdotally, the people I know getting Moderna's vax and boosters have had less symptoms/side-effects.

The was my experience "mostly." No symptoms/SE for the original Moderna vax. None for the 1st Moderna booster. Then, I took the Pfizer bivalent booster and got bad symptoms for a day or two. And the latest Moderna Spikevax booster did the same.

 

[berkeman]

Anecdotally, the people I know getting Moderna's vax and boosters have had less symptoms/side-effects.

Yeah, this latest booster a couple days ago was no problem at all. A bit of a sore deltoid (more than from the flu shot a couple days earlier -- weird), but no side effects at all. I've held off my usual high-intensity MTB rides the last couple of days to be cautious, but tomorrow I hit the single track!

 

[dlgoff]

My deltoid muscle is still sore from the Moderna Spikevax I had on October 3rd. Don't know if I going to get the second dose.

 

[berkeman]

My deltoid muscle is still sore from the Moderna Spikevax I had on October 3rd. Don't know if I going to get the second dose.

Was that your first vax for Covid? The booters now are single-dose.

 

[dlgoff]

Was that your first vax for Covid? The booters now are single-dose.

My COVD-19 Vaccination Record Card says "Reminder! Return for a second dose!"

 

[berkeman]

My COVD-19 Vaccination Record Card says "Reminder! Return for a second dose!"

Only if this was your first Covid vax ever...