Anti-Bush demonstrations across the country

[Pengwuino]

draw only a few thousand...

In Chicago, organizers estimated more than 500 people attended a downtown rally amid police dressed in riot gear. A few masked protesters waved Iraq flags and vandalized American flags.

and many are simply children...

Olivier Martineau, 16, walked out of his high school with 17 others to join the march. ''I am strongly against the war in Iraq,'' he said. ''We are always sticking our noses into other people's business when we don't even realize our battles at home.''

http://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusgen/reuters11-02-160257.asp?t=renew&vts=11220051700

This rally was supposedly going to bring out millions of people today (Nov. 2) according to the organization and I believe detailed in their respective thread.

 

[Cosmo16]

now, what would interupting the state of the union address do? (As is states they wish to) All it does is say "Hey look! We're *******s!". If they want to protest in a respectable manner, I don't care. It's their right. However, I do not think that interupting an important speech is a respectable form of protest.

 

[ranger]

Why can't these people see that Bush won't give in. What they are doing is meaningless.

"Hey you know what, Let's start a rally to prevent something that's already happened"

 

[Anttech]

"Hey you know what, Let's start a rally to prevent something that's already happened"

helped when you were loosing the vietnam war if I remember correctly

 

[Pengwuino]

helped when you were loosing the vietnam war if I remember correctly

They didn't backstab the military by promising a million people and only getting a few thousand in the entire nation that's for sure. But the similarities are there. Drugged up idiots forced us out of Vietnam back then, drugged up idiots are trying to force us out of iraq this time.

 

[Anttech]

But the similarities are there. Drugged up idiots forced us out of Vietnam back then, drugged up idiots are trying to force us out of iraq this time.

Is it even possible for you to post something that isn’t sensationalist, and erroneously false, Is it your policy to over exaggerate everything?
Seriously Pengwuino you are like a caricature of Rumsfeld made real..

 

[Pengwuino]

Have you ever seen some of the videos taken of a lot of these protests... I mean you can literally see it in their eyes that they are under the influence of some sort of drug. I have even heard with my own two ears people saying they were going to go get drugged up and go to some anti-bush protest. I mean unless you can, with a straight face, tell me how these people act without even being in the same country, then I wouldn't be insulting other people if I were you. It is immature.

Now I will admit that it is almost entirely certain that the majority are not screwed up in their heads, but I suppose its counteracted by your reference of the innaccurate propaganda ploy that we were "losing" Vietnam.

How bout you actually speak on the substance of the article? What is your reaction to only a few thousand, in a nation with a population nearing 300,000,000 people, showing up to protest the administration especially when more people, OOM more people, were promised? And the children?

And where are your complaints when the liberals on this board say Bush is going to take over the world or all conservatives are evil and the Patriot act turned us into Nazi Germany and other ultra-sensationalized crap? Double standard? Please... Either complain fairly, or don't complain at all.

 

[Anttech]

So you didnt lose the Vietnam war??

I wasnt insulting you, unless you think that being like Rumsfeld is an insult, if so PM me and I can help you join the Deomcrats

 

[Pengwuino]

So you didnt lose the Vietnam war??

Ha, look at the body counts. We pretty much quit. The Vietcong never pushes us out of anywhere, they never defeated us anywhere important, we never had to surrender. Hardly a "loss".

I wasnt insulting you, unless you think that being like Rumsfeld is an insult, if so PM me and I can help you join the Deomcrats

Is it even possible for you to post something that isn’t sensationalist, and erroneously false, Is it your policy to over exaggerate everything?

You're right, what was I thinking? Next time I shoudl listen to people with no knowledge, especially first hand knowledge, of what I'm talking about.

Actually no no, I'll take that back. I will respect your right to insult people because you don't agree with them and your use of confirmation bias as it is only natural. At least you are not a troll like some of the people I have seen who'se sole purpose on this board seems to make daily political rants and bicker about every little thing (and no, that is not sarcasm).

 

[devil-fire]

what was won in vietnam? i thought that the war was seen as a huge mistake because the costs were enormously disproportional to the result. as for body counts i don't think that reflects 'victory' unless the idea was genocide and that's not the case here. sure vietnam was battered but how was that positive for usa after spending as many billions of dollars on the conflict?

(edit to have something topic related)

only a few thousand in an anti-bush protest is weak. it shows the lack of support for bush in the usa though. maybe those who don't like bush are strong in words but just weak in actions?

 

[Anttech]

You're right, what was I thinking? Next time I shoudl listen to people with no knowledge, especially first hand knowledge, of what I'm talking about.

Unless I was to walk around with you how on Earth am I supposed to have first hand knowledge of what you are talking about? if this is the premises to debate something with you then what's the point..

I will respect your right to insult people because you don't agree with them and your use of confirmation bias as it is only natural

again I didnt insult you.. If you think i did then sorry, I thought you would find it a compliment to be compared to Rumsfeld

At least you are not a troll like some of the people I have seen who'se sole purpose on this board seems to make daily political rants and bicker about every little thing (and no, that is not sarcasm)

Wow.. thanks I think

I see that you have edited you post, and I'll respond.

How bout you actually speak on the substance of the article? What is your reaction to only a few thousand, in a nation with a population nearing 300,000,000 people, showing up to protest the administration especially when more people, OOM more people, were promised? And the children?

Its there right to protest, and I doubt as you said they are all "drugged up idiots." The organisers were doing as any Government does, sexing up its agenda for maximum politcal gain, if they actually did state that "Millions" were going to turn up, I couldn't see that anywhere.

And where are your complaints when the liberals on this board say Bush is going to take over the world or all conservatives are evil and the Patriot act turned us into Nazi Germany and other ultra-sensationalized crap? Double standard? Please... Either complain fairly, or don't complain at all.

Show me where anyone has said the "patriot act is turning America into Nazi germany" or that say Bush is going to take over the world or all "conservatives are evil"

People will always have idealogical differences, just becuase you dissagree with someone doesn't mean you have to polarise yourself... You know how I feel about your current administration Foreign Policy... I know who you feel about it, but this doesn't mean I think you are evil..

 

[ranger]

drugged up idiots are trying to force us out of iraq this time.

Haha...well stated.

 

[BobG]

Ha, look at the body counts. We pretty much quit. The Vietcong never pushes us out of anywhere, they never defeated us anywhere important, we never had to surrender. Hardly a "loss".

Body counts don't determine the winners and losers of a war. The idea is to achieve your end objective. Our goal in Viet Nam was a unified non-communist government, or at least a non-communist South Vietnam if the first proved unfeasible. Whether we quit because we decided the cost wasn't worth it, whether we were pushed out, or whether you say we just folded rather than toss more money and lives into the pot, the end result was that we paid a lot, but didn't achieve our goals. That is a loss, even if you reduce it to the logic of an investment.

There's two issues involved in the Iraq war. Can we obtain our objectives (a stable, democratic government for a unified Iraq that has friendlier ties to the West)? Is the cost worth it (how many lives will it take and how will it affect other national goals)?

It might be possible to achieve our goals, but an awful lot depends on things completely out of our control. Iraqis have to come up with some sort of government that doesn't alienate huge segments of their population all on their own. If they decide to take hard road, our costs go up because we can't afford to leave. In the meantime, our ability to handle other problems that might require military support is reduced, plus we're much less likely to receive help from other countries.

 

[SOS2008]

But the similarities are there. Drugged up idiots forced us out of Vietnam back then, drugged up idiots are trying to force us out of iraq this time.

Is it even possible for you to post something that isn’t sensationalist, and erroneously false, Is it your policy to over exaggerate everything?

Is the sky blue?

Body counts don't determine the winners and losers of a war. The idea is to achieve your end objective. Our goal in Viet Nam was a unified non-communist government, or at least a non-communist South Vietnam if the first proved unfeasible. Whether we quit because we decided the cost wasn't worth it, whether we were pushed out, or whether you say we just folded rather than toss more money and lives into the pot, the end result was that we paid a lot, but didn't achieve our goals. That is a loss, even if you reduce it to the logic of an investment.

There's two issues involved in the Iraq war. Can we obtain our objectives (a stable, democratic government for a unified Iraq that has friendlier ties to the West)? Is the cost worth it (how many lives will it take and how will it affect other national goals)?

It might be possible to achieve our goals, but an awful lot depends on things completely out of our control. Iraqis have to come up with some sort of government that doesn't alienate huge segments of their population all on their own. If they decide to take hard road, our costs go up because we can't afford to leave. In the meantime, our ability to handle other problems that might require military support is reduced, plus we're much less likely to receive help from other countries.

I participate in PF to increase my knowledge. Thank you BobG for making an informative and meaningful contribution (as always).

It would be nice if the threads/posts could be kept at a higher academic level.

 

[Pengwuino]

Unless I was to walk around with you how on Earth am I supposed to have first hand knowledge of what you are talking about? if this is the premises to debate something with you then what's the point..

If you don't have hte knowledge, then why are you disputing? I mean it is perfectly acceptable to not have an opinion on something based on ones own ignorance. Hell,people start talking about evolution and i shut up because the last biology class i took was 4 years ago and half the time i was asleep.

The organisers were doing as any Government does, sexing up its agenda for maximum politcal gain, if they actually did state that "Millions" were going to turn up, I couldn't see that anywhere.

It was a reference I figured most PWA forum goers would have recognized as it was in that big "drive the bush regime out" or something thread that got a pretty big hit count. I appologize for that.

Show me where anyone has said the "patriot act is turning America into Nazi germany" or that say Bush is going to take over the world or all "conservatives are evil"

Search it, hell there's probably a reference on the first page.

People will always have idealogical differences, just becuase you dissagree with someone doesn't mean you have to polarise yourself... You know how I feel about your current administration Foreign Policy... I know who you feel about it, but this doesn't mean I think you are evil..

It is not about polarization, it's about being at least a tad bit fair on the criticism and not being hypocritical. I mean this forum is filled with fanatical liberals that SAY they are fair and unbiased but will go through hoops to take a subject off track if its against their worldview. Now I do have respect for you because you don't do that i think... this is more of a rant against the other forumers really...

 

[ray b]

They didn't backstab the military by promising a million people and only getting a few thousand in the entire nation that's for sure. But the similarities are there. Drugged up idiots forced us out of Vietnam back then, drugged up idiots are trying to force us out of iraq this time.

as one of the many "Drugged up idiots" who protested the viet-nam WAR
what could the USA won in the long term, the RIGHT to still be fighting
there now with a new crop of drafted kids?
the north Viets were in a fight one day longer mode
they didnot need victory on any battlefield or to hold any citys
just to out last the invaders and fight ONE DAY LONGER

sure the USA won every major battle, but never the important one
the hearts and minds of the common people
the corupt government the USA supported could not stand alone
because it had no support base excpt amoung the thiefs in the goverment

BTW I supported the afgan action based on trying to get Ben lauden and his gang
and thought Iraq was a bad idea based on lies as events have shown to be TRUE
the only long term fix maybe to split Iraq into 3 countrys but outside powers willnot allow that to happen

 

[Skyhunter]

Search it, hell there's probably a reference on the first page.

Another accusation without source or reference.

It is not about polarization, it's about being at least a tad bit fair on the criticism and not being hypocritical. I mean this forum is filled with fanatical liberals that SAY they are fair and unbiased but will go through hoops to take a subject off track if its against their worldview.

Another accusation without source or reference.