Anti-symmetric tensor question

In summary: The claim is that this object transforms as an anti-symmetric tensor, and nothing more. In summary, the conversation discusses the role of the sigma tensor, which is composed of the commutator of gamma matrices, in representing anti-symmetric tensors. While it is claimed that the sigma tensor can represent any anti-symmetric tensor, there is no clear explanation of how it can represent the electromagnetic tensor, which is not a mere product of Dirac spinors. However, it is noted that the equality between the two tensors lies in their transformation under the Lorentz group, rather than their components. The conversation also mentions that the statement that the sigma tensor can represent any anti-symmetric tensor is not explicitly mentioned in the referenced text and that it
  • #1
DuckAmuck
238
40
TL;DR Summary
Can the gamma matrices really represent any anti-symmetric tensor?
The sigma tensor composed of the commutator of gamma matrices is said to be able to represent any anti-symmetric tensor.
[tex]\sigma_{\mu\nu} = i/2 [\gamma_\mu,\gamma_\nu] [/tex]
However, it is not clear how one can arrive at something like the electromagnetic tensor.
[tex] F_{\mu\nu} = a \bar{\psi} \sigma_{\mu\nu} \psi [/tex] ?
Any clarity will be appreciated.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
DuckAmuck said:
The sigma tensor composed of the commutator of gamma matrices is said to be able to represent any anti-symmetric tensor.
"Said" where? Do you have a reference?
 
  • #3
PeterDonis said:
"Said" where? Do you have a reference?
Chapter 7 of Griffith's particle book
 
  • Sad
Likes malawi_glenn
  • #4
OK, can you be more specific (page, edition)? I think your question can be answered as follows. The antisymmetric product (basically matrix commutator) of gammas bears the same index structure as a genuine antisymmetric tensor in spacetime. However, since these are constant matrices (thus can't be varied through a Lorentz transformation), you need them to be "sandwitched" between a product of Dirac spinors. To show that Psibar.sigma_munu.Psi truly transforms as an antimmetric tensor (2-form) under Lorentz transformations, is not an easy task, it's rather tedious.

And F (the Faraday tensor of electromagnetism) is not related to a mere product of Dirac spinors "intertwined" through sigma_munu. You can say that these two tensors are not identical, but covariant (i.e. transform the same way under a Lorentz transformation).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes vanhees71
  • #5
DuckAmuck said:
TL;DR Summary: Can the gamma matrices really represent any anti-symmetric tensor?

The sigma tensor composed of the commutator of gamma matrices is said to be able to represent any anti-symmetric tensor.
[tex]\sigma_{\mu\nu} = i/2 [\gamma_\mu,\gamma_\nu] [/tex]
However, it is not clear how one can arrive at something like the electromagnetic tensor.
[tex] F_{\mu\nu} = a \bar{\psi} \sigma_{\mu\nu} \psi [/tex] ?
Any clarity will be appreciated.
To add to dextercioby: you can't in general. F has 6 independent components and psi, depending on the representation, max 4. There's no way you can express F always in this way. The equality is not in the components, but in their transformation under the Lorentz group.
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71
  • #6
DuckAmuck said:
$$F_{\mu\nu} = a \bar{\psi} \sigma_{\mu\nu} \psi ?$$

This isn't quite how it is done. Treat
$$\bar{\psi} \sigma_{\mu\nu} \psi$$
as a set of 6 basis elements. To get a general element, write a linear combination of the basis elements, e.g.,
$$F = F^{\mu \nu} \bar{\psi} \sigma_{\mu\nu} \psi.$$
##F## is an anti-symmetric tensor with components ## F^{\mu \nu}##.
 
  • Like
Likes PeroK, vanhees71 and PeterDonis
  • #7
2nd edition, page 237

Note, that the text only states that ## \bar \psi \sigma^{\mu \nu}\psi## is an antisymmetric tensor (7.68). It does not say that is equal to the "electromagnetic" tensor.

DuckAmuck said:
The sigma tensor composed of the commutator of gamma matrices is said to be able to represent any anti-symmetric tensor
It does not say this either. We are working with bilinear products of Dirac-spinors in this subchapter.
 
  • Like
Likes PeroK, PeterDonis and vanhees71

FAQ: Anti-symmetric tensor question

What is an anti-symmetric tensor?

An anti-symmetric tensor is a type of tensor that changes sign when any two of its indices are swapped. For example, a rank-2 anti-symmetric tensor \( A_{ij} \) satisfies \( A_{ij} = -A_{ji} \). This property can be extended to higher-rank tensors.

What are the properties of anti-symmetric tensors?

Anti-symmetric tensors have several notable properties. First, the diagonal elements of an anti-symmetric tensor are always zero. Second, the number of independent components of an anti-symmetric tensor of rank \( r \) in \( n \)-dimensional space is given by \( \binom{n}{r} \). Lastly, the wedge product of differential forms is an example of an operation that produces anti-symmetric tensors.

How do you construct an anti-symmetric tensor from a given tensor?

To construct an anti-symmetric tensor from a given tensor \( T_{ij} \), you can use the formula \( A_{ij} = \frac{1}{2} (T_{ij} - T_{ji}) \). This operation ensures that the resulting tensor \( A_{ij} \) is anti-symmetric, as it will satisfy the condition \( A_{ij} = -A_{ji} \).

What are the applications of anti-symmetric tensors?

Anti-symmetric tensors have applications in various fields of physics and mathematics. In physics, they are used to describe physical quantities such as the electromagnetic field tensor in electromagnetism and the stress-energy tensor in general relativity. In mathematics, they are essential in differential geometry and the study of differential forms, which are used in the integration over manifolds.

How do anti-symmetric tensors relate to determinants and eigenvalues?

Anti-symmetric tensors are closely related to determinants and eigenvalues in linear algebra. For a matrix representation of an anti-symmetric tensor, the determinant of the matrix is zero if the rank of the tensor is odd. Additionally, the eigenvalues of an anti-symmetric matrix are either zero or purely imaginary if the matrix is real. These properties are useful in various mathematical and physical analyses.

Similar threads

Back
Top