Any RECENT engineering or science grads working abroad?

[gravenewworld]

I've seriously considered living abroad if I have to after getting out of grad school in order to find work. This is sort of related to one of my old posts about having a dire outlook on being able to find employment in the US. I really don't know if there is any hope to find viable long term employment these days in the states. The problems the US economy faces are systemic and deep rooted. Investment in R and D continues to be slashed while companies outsource or move towards the permatemp model in order to save on things like health care and retirement costs. I really don't know if I want to deal with chronic unemployment and temp jobs with no health care benefits for a large portion of my life anymore (which I have been). Are there any RECENT science or engineering grads that have moved aboard to work? What has your experience been like?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/go-to-china-young-scientist/2011/05/19/AFCY227G_story.html

 

[flemmyd]

My friend recently (about 1 month ago) graduated with a mechE/chem degree. He has both American/French citizenship and speaks fluent French. I hope I don't butcher any details repeating his story.

He has mostly been looking at larger companies (Siemens and some other ones I can't remember) and has had the same success (or lack of) in both countries applying for jobs. Stuff in America seems to have a huge influence on stuff that happens in Europe, so they follow American news. It doesn't seem to flow the other way (Something my friend noticed when he stopped going back to France every summer). Either way, it's still pretty bad there too, apparently.

I read the link you posted and I've heard that stuff before. Supposedly, there was a "massive" exodus of scientists to Singapore when Bush outlawed stem cell research (I don't do bio research, so I have NO IDEA if any of it is true). It sounds like the grass is greener on the other side. But I find it hard that it could so wonderful over there and not see this massive exodus of people.
For one, the guy writing the article you posted has some great pedigree- Harvard and now MIT. I'm sure Brasil would love to give him a lab. Why doesn't he just go to China or any country he listed and start his own lab himself?

SIDENOTE: I spent some time doing research in Brasil. While their research budgets are growing, I don't think they aren't starting with the huge complex we have. It's easy to grow another 2 feet when you're 7 years old. It's harder when you're 34.

 

[twofish-quant]

There's one big problem with going to Mainland China. Unless you are a Chinese national, the PRC will not issue a work visa unless you have two years of work experience, so it's not an option for someone with a fresh Ph.D. Even with work experience, you end up with chicken-egg issues. The PRC will not issue a work visa unless you have someone willing to hire you, and if you aren't in the PRC, it's tough to find a job.

Also the PRC has a ton of people graduating their universities, and *lots* of nationals "going home" so if you are not a national, you are going to be in the back of the queue.

 

[twofish-quant]

I read the link you posted and I've heard that stuff before. Supposedly, there was a "massive" exodus of scientists to Singapore when Bush outlawed stem cell research (I don't do bio research, so I have NO IDEA if any of it is true).

It's not so much stem cell research as much that the government of Singapore has decided that they want to be a center for biotech, and are willing to pay top dollar for scientists. Right now there is the sense in the US that anyone that spends government money is a "welfare queen" which really stinks if you are a scientist, since most scientists ultimately get their money from the government.

One thing is that in East Asia, people are in a "good mood." The financial crisis is something of a distant memory. Also, people don't hate bankers, scientists, and elementary school teachers.

But I find it hard that it could so wonderful over there and not see this massive exodus of people.

It may be because you don't speak Chinese.

Also it's not so much that people are quitting jobs to go over to China/India, but rather you have rather large numbers of Ph.D.'s that are not able to get jobs/work visas in the US taking a plane home. The other thing that you see are large multinationals opening research centers in China, and they generally keep that rather quiet (at least in English).

One final thing is that if you have moved from the US to China because you think that the US is screwing up its economy and scientific research infrastructure and that China is doing it better, then you have reasons to be quiet about it. If you complain about the US, then at the very least you are going to get into a useless argument, which isn't going to change anything. I suppose if you are a US citizen, you still have some sort of patriotic duty to complain, but a lot of people aren't. If you are a Chinese national, and you think that the US is being idiotic, you don't have any particular duty to change that.

So what's the point? If you think you have to leave, then leave quietly.

For one, the guy writing the article you posted has some great pedigree- Harvard and now MIT. I'm sure Brasil would love to give him a lab. Why doesn't he just go to China or any country he listed and start his own lab himself?

Maybe he has. In the news right now there is the story of someone that people assumed was in Damascus, but actually turned out to be from Atlanta.

The opposite thing happens, and you have no idea where people are posting from.

 

[Matrix0]

I can understand your concerns about finding viable employment opportunities in the US after graduating from grad school. The current economic climate and the challenges facing the US economy are certainly concerning.

In terms of recent science and engineering grads working abroad, I have definitely seen a trend of more and more students considering and pursuing opportunities outside of the US. Many countries, particularly in Asia, have been investing heavily in R&D and are actively seeking highly skilled workers in the fields of science and engineering.

I would recommend doing thorough research and networking to explore potential opportunities abroad. It can be a great learning and growth experience to work in a different country and culture, and could potentially lead to valuable career opportunities.

I also want to acknowledge the concerns you have about the permatemp model and lack of benefits in US companies. This is definitely a challenge that many recent grads face. However, there are also companies in the US that value and invest in their employees, so it is important to keep an open mind and continue to explore options both domestically and internationally.

In the end, the decision to work abroad is a personal one and should be based on your individual goals and priorities. But I would encourage you to keep an open mind and explore all potential opportunities, both in the US and abroad.