Anyone sick and tired of all the fancy techy stuffs?

[yungman]

It is strange to talk about this in a scientific and high tech forum. Are we really better off with all the high tech gadgets in our lives? I was an EE and manager of EE for 30yrs before I retired. Even though my specialties is analog & RF. I had my share of designing hardwares using MPU and I wrote assembly programming in my days. I even learned C++ few yrs ago to try to keep up after I retired. I really have to say the new stuffs/applicants, cars etc is NOTHING as good as the older stuffs. Here are some examples.

1) CARS
I have an SUV bought in 2014 new. Never gives me problem other than routine maintenance. It has new stuffs at the time. I made it a point NOT to have self parking, steering assist, auto breaking type of stuff. It works. We bought a 2018 of the same brand, still avoided self parking, steering assist and all the fancy stuffs. BUT the electronics really intermittent. Particular the center council that control the radio and stuffs. Radio station keep changing without touching it, many times the whole thing stop functioning, no camera no nothing. I had to pull the car to the side, stop the engine, then start to reset it. The 2018 was in the dealer for over a month the first 1/2 yr. Still have problem, they couldn't fix it by uploading the latest firmware. I just gave up and live with it.

I so want to get a new SUV as the old one is 10yrs old, but honestly, I can’t find anyone I want to replace my old one. I even looked into EV, but the catching of fire, short driving distance stopped me from buying it. I was looking into the Tesla Model S before, that kind of out the window. I was joking( not that joking) that I am willing to pay $20K to just change the outer shell of my 10yr old SUV to the latest model yr and keep everything inside, engine, electronics and all.

2) All-In-One printer.
We bought a HP All-In-One 25yrs ago, it was like $800 at the time, the ink was expensive also. But it’s fast, simple, you align the graphics, it’s very consistent. You literally can write instructions to print anywhere on the paper, any size paper and it is consistent. 7yrs ago, it broke down. I started shopping, things are a lot cheap, could do more on spec. So I bought a new one for like $300(Not cheap by any standard compare to some less than $100). I junked the old HP. THAT WAS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE I MADE.

If I knew all this, I WOULD PAY EVEN $300 TO FIX THE OLD HP AND NEVER BUY A NEWER ONE. We have since gone through more than 7 or 8, right now I have as Brother and an Epson that barely work. Gone through at least 4 Canon, one I got a replacement for free under warranty and it failed. They are inconsistent, my wife does a lot of arts and crafts, she need to print on different size paper. ALL THE NEWER ONES ARE SO INCONSISTENT. She can find a way to do it, write down the steps, THEY CHANGED LATER MAYBE FROM SOFTWARE UPDATES OR WHATEVER. They are slow, asking all sort of stupid question and still not doing the job. Then they break down. Right now, I have two upstairs barely working, one in garage to be brought to recycle. I am shopping for another one again.

3) We had an old cloths washer that lasted over 30yrs, everything is manual. When we moved, we bought a newer and better one. Just few days ago, it got confused and ran extra cycles of something, took over 2hrs instead of normal 1hr 2mins. I am more worry it might ruin the cloths as it kept running cycles of something. This is only 4yrs old!!!

4) Anyone worry about your info in smart phone?
I don’t put anything important in my phone. No auto pay, not bank info, not even my important email account. You lose you phone, you lose your life!!! Anyone heard about gangs from Venezuela team up with hackers, the gang rob the phones, bring back right away to the hackers and they hack and drain your account before you can even put a freeze on anything. Call me paranoid, I do NOT connect my smart TV to internet, I use tape to tape over the camera and mic of my laptop. Peel it off when I need to do video conference.

I believe all the problems are in the firmware. From my experience, hardware is very easy to design and very consistent if designed right. It's the software. Now a days when people write programs, they use 3rd party function blocks to save work and get fast turn around time. I really think a lot of problems are created accidentally from that.

 

[docnet]

Dang.. sorry you're having a rough time. Sometimes it can be difficult to keep up with ever-changing technology, though most of it is designed to make life better. That said, the fact that you posted it here, on an internet forum that discusses and promotes new STEM topics, doesn't help strengthen your argument against new tech

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of inflation and planned obsolescence. Rising costs and frequent replacements stress me out and you're not alone in feeling frustrated.

 

[yungman]

Dang.. sorry you're having a rough time. Sometimes it can be difficult to keep up with ever-changing technology, though most of it is designed to make life better. That said, the fact that you posted it here, on an internet forum that discusses and promotes new STEM topics, doesn't help strengthen your argument against new tech

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of inflation and planned obsolescence. Rising costs and frequent replacements stress me out and you're not alone in feeling frustrated.

I don't mind new technologies and changes, I just want things to work.

Particular my wife is not very good with new stuffs and she's the one using the printers. Every time I hear her screaming, I kind of look out the window, the printer might be flying down from upstairs. And guess who gets to fix the problem?

I like modern stuffs....as long as it works, that it last a little bit longer. Speaking of lasting, notice tv don't last that long? I average one every 4 yrs, before, they lasted like 20+yrs. I had to give away my real projection tv, only is 72" one was 52" after 20+yrs. In the last 7yrs, I replaced 2 Samsung 60" LED already. Now one of them is starting to have some funny things, losing color for a little while. The 80" in living room is 3yrs old, I'll likely be shopping soon. Good thing is they are so cheap now a days.

Also, you notice, the newer stuffs are getting slower and slower? I can't even stand computers with HD drive. Have to have SSD drive. The faster the computer, the slower they get.

 

[Borek]

In general - yes. "Intelligent" devices are becoming increasingly stupid and they way too often waste my time instead of just doing what they should do.

That said, the fact that you posted it here, on an internet forum that discusses and promotes new STEM topics, doesn't help strengthen your argument against new tech

Actually - in a way it does. New tech is good as long as it helps, at some point it can become overengineered and useless. This is exactly what is happening to us, PF users. Forum becomes an obsolete technology, used by less and less people. Not because they are worse, but because the other social media play psychological tricks on their users, to keep them glued. Which is sad, as alternatives are difficult to search and make attempts at discussing things in a structured way almost impossible (I am saying that as an active FB user, with plenty of hands on experience). When it comes to technical discussions, or looking for help situation is now even worse - forums and other formats are being displaced by ChatGPT (clearly visible in the traffic), which at its current state is unable to provide correct answers. From the POV of helping students (or more generally: helping people) understand what they are doing/studying these are not steps forward, to put it mildly.

 

[yungman]

In general - yes. "Intelligent" devices are becoming increasingly stupid and they way too often waste my time instead of just doing what they should do.



Actually - in a way it does. New tech is good as long as it helps, at some point it can become overengineered and useless. This is exactly what is happening to us, PF users. Forum becomes an obsolete technology, used by less and less people. Not because they are worse, but because the other social media play psychological tricks on their users, to keep them glued. Which is sad, as alternatives are difficult to search and make attempts at discussing things in a structured way almost impossible (I am saying that as an active FB user, with plenty of hands on experience). When it comes to technical discussions, or looking for help situation is now even worse - forums and other formats are being displaced by ChatGPT (clearly visible in the traffic), which at its current state is unable to provide correct answers. From the POV of helping students (or more generally: helping people) understand what they are doing/studying these are not steps forward, to put it mildly.

I think PF and other forums are very helpful. I keep telling my grand daughter to ask question on PF as I showed her many times.

I've been on and off on PF, I actually did both, I was helping out in EE part like 10+yrs ago, and I have been getting help on Electromagnetics and PDE. Just a few yrs ago, I sort help when I was learning C++. I think forum like this is very important and useful. That's the reason you see I have so many posts. I would say over half was helping out in EE forum. I don't believe they have voting "Like" back in the days, that's why I only have 244 Likes.

The way I look at it is the young generation becomes more entitled, trying to find an easy way out in schooling. Very few want to go into science and engineering because these need devotion and determination to work hard, study long hours. Young people don't grow up this way. My grand daughter is into science and get over 4.01GPA and going to UC Merced. My grandson is the kind that try to get away, He was CS major, he took short cuts, looking at the answers to reverse back to the question instead of going through the pain of solving the problem. he got away the first two yrs in college, then he hit a brick wall and he just didn't do good. He got his degree, but he couldn't find a job and now he is studying accounting and want to be a CPA. He admit he is not good in programming.

When I was the manager and I was trying to hire an EE in 2005, I got a stack of resumes, 90%+ were obvious foreigners. I mean fresh off the boat type, not like me that have been here long time. I really tried to hire someone that is American( regardless of color), someone that have been here a long time, but no luck.

Companies I worked for at the time, you can literally get away speaking Chinese or Indian( from India) in the lunch room. I bet it's even worst today looking at the education system. they are talking about delay teaching Algebra in HS. As if we have too many talented students. We have to hire engineers and scientist with offering H1 or H2 visas to bring foreigners over.

Anyone in hightech industry must notice the same thing. I can only speak for my experience from 20yrs ago(retired since). I doubt situation is getting any better.

Young people are stuck on video games, smart phone. they don't even want to drive!!! Not like my days where car was a big thing, hot rod and all. I have problem convincing my grand daughter to learn how to drive. she's going to UC Merced this fall, hopefully living in no man's land will encourage her to learn how to drive, or else, it's like in prison stuck in the doom.

 

[dwarde]

The touch pad or circuit boards on appliances are the most frequent part to fail. The old tic tic timers usually lasted the life of the appliance.

"The main point is the rate of failure for the electronic control and or touchpad is leagues higher than that old mechanical timer mechanism we all used to have. I can remember doing work for a particular manufacturer (who shall remain nameless) where I would replace a touchpad on a dishwasher at least once a day and sometimes three a day. These appliances weren't even a year old, yet the manufacturer was footing the bill. I can count on one hand, however, how many mechanical timers I have replaced in the last 10 years."

https://dengarden.com/appliances/Mechanical-VS-Electronic-Appliances

 

[Flyboy]

I think there’s a difference between new technology as a purely technical aspect, and the application of that technology in a consumer-driven economy. The desire to cut corners and get to a solid without doing the intermediate steps is not just a student thing, it’s a cultural one in the US. From the boardroom to the bedroom, people as a whole seem to want to make things faster, easier, and cheaper. And many people don’t want to change that mindset because they will either lack the motivation to do so, or will not be aware of that even being an option.

I will freely admit that I am guilty of that sometimes.

 

[yungman]

The touch pad or circuit boards on appliances are the most frequent part to fail. The old tic tic timers usually lasted the life of the appliance.

"The main point is the rate of failure for the electronic control and or touchpad is leagues higher than that old mechanical timer mechanism we all used to have. I can remember doing work for a particular manufacturer (who shall remain nameless) where I would replace a touchpad on a dishwasher at least once a day and sometimes three a day. These appliances weren't even a year old, yet the manufacturer was footing the bill. I can count on one hand, however, how many mechanical timers I have replaced in the last 10 years."

https://dengarden.com/appliances/Mechanical-VS-Electronic-Appliances

I for one think if well debugged, electronics are better than manual. Remember in the days of early windows and DOS, nothing wrong with that. When programs using SPECIFIC control keys for functions, that there is ONLY ONE WAY TO DO A SPECIFIC FUNCTION. Things were very reliable. Only when they try to please the old timers or people not good in following instruction, they give people multiple paths to get to the same end point, that's when problem happens. Program becomes much more complicated, using external function bought from 3rd party, you really don't know all the incompatibility until people start using it. Then the pressure is on to fix it as fast as possible.

Then there are the techy consumers that actually think they know computer if they know how to use the smart phone and some fancy aps. They are the ones that OOHs and AHs about every new gadget coming out. this drive the marketing to push and push.

Like I said, my 10yr old SUV is trouble free, not that fancy but it's good. the 2008 car of the same brand is nothing but computer problem. We gave up trying to have them fixing it already.

 

[yungman]

I think there’s a difference between new technology as a purely technical aspect, and the application of that technology in a consumer-driven economy. The desire to cut corners and get to a solid without doing the intermediate steps is not just a student thing, it’s a cultural one in the US. From the boardroom to the bedroom, people as a whole seem to want to make things faster, easier, and cheaper. And many people don’t want to change that mindset because they will either lack the motivation to do so, or will not be aware of that even being an option.

I will freely admit that I am guilty of that sometimes.

I blame those techy people that don't know anything about real technology, then think if they know how to play around with like smart phone, paying bills, banking etc., then they know technology. My second step son is exactly like that. wasting money on the latest and greatest gadgets. $3000 for the folding phone 3yrs ago, the mirror in the bathroom have messages. Bragging about the electronics in his Tesla Model S.

They are the ones that drive the marketing and we suffer. I kept telling them, "IF YOU WANT TO LEARN TECHNOLOGY, TAKE A C++ CLASS, HTML ", then they can really say they learn technology.

 

[Flyboy]

Reminds me of a half serious joke I’ve seen around…

“Tech enthusiasts get smart houses. Tech experts have a single computer and printer attached to the internet, and a shotgun handy in case it acts funny.”

Don’t blame the tech enthusiasts entirely for the way stuff gets marketed. Marketing departments and their corporate overlords are also to blame. See “cutting corners” and “cheaper, faster, easier”.

 

[dwarde]

I'm old fashioned I guess, but why would anyone need a WI-FI dishwasher?

 

[Flyboy]

I'm old fashioned I guess, but why would anyone need a WI-FI dishwasher?

Rule of Cool? Because an influencer got one? Because they got suckered into it by marketing? All of the above?

 

[yungman]

Reminds me of a half serious joke I’ve seen around…

“Tech enthusiasts get smart houses. Tech experts have a single computer and printer attached to the internet, and a shotgun handy in case it acts funny.”

Don’t blame the tech enthusiasts entirely for the way stuff gets marketed. Marketing departments and their corporate overlords are also to blame. See “cutting corners” and “cheaper, faster, easier”.

You really describe me. Do you know my first move when any electronics fails? KICK IT, SLAP IT. THEN NEXT STEP, UNPLUG THE POWER, WAIT 15SEC AND PLUG IT BACK IN.

Believe me, this is from 30yrs of experience and a successful career.

I would pay $800 for my old HP that I junked from 23yrs back and pay premium for the ink cartridges.

How many times when friends said the computer not working, I did the same steps and it worked. The next is to jiggle the pcbs inside to make sure the connectors have good connections.

 

[JT Smith]

I'm old fashioned I guess, but why would anyone need a WI-FI dishwasher?

Because you can't always pick and choose individual features. I almost bought one because the model with the feature I desired also had Wi-Fi. Ultimately I chose a lesser model simply to avoid Wi-Fi but I imagine lots of people don't. Then the manufacturer might interpret that as customer demand for it.

I've been thinking about getting a new car and it's the same thing. They don't offer what I want so if I buy new I'll have to pay for features I dislike. Can't even find the color I want.

As consumers we don't really have free choice. We just get to choose from the limited options the marketing people decide to offer. Think of all the ludicrous clothing styles from the past.

 

[yungman]

Because you can't always pick and choose individual features. I almost bought one because the model with the feature I desired also had Wi-Fi. Ultimately I chose a lesser model simply to avoid Wi-Fi but I imagine lots of people don't. Then the manufacturer might interpret that as customer demand for it.

I've been thinking about getting a new car and it's the same thing. They don't offer what I want so if I buy new I'll have to pay for features I dislike. Can't even find the color I want.

As consumers we don't really have free choice. We just get to choose from the limited options the marketing people decide to offer. Think of all the ludicrous clothing styles from the past.

That's exactly my problem, the nicer cars/SUV come standard with a lot of features. I have to special order both( even the 2014) to get away from steering assist, self parking and break assist type of features that if gone wrong, it will take over the car and gets into accident.

On the 2018, I have to put up with the sport package that has a rough ride, road noise and all.

The cheaper the car like a Toyota Corolla or even Celica are so reliable and basic. The more expensive, the less reliable and hard to get basic models.

Even for Lexus, ES is as realiable as Celica, GS is still good. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT CONSUMER REPORTS, LS HAVE PROBLEMS. ALL ELECTRICAL..........COMPUTER PROBLEMS.

 

[Hornbein]

People will buy the thing with extra features they will never use. I prefer simpler things that are straightforward to operate.

 

[yungman]

People will buy the thing with extra features they will never use. I prefer simpler things that are straightforward to operate.

Ha ha, you and me are the minority. They take it as a challenge and brag about it if they know a way to bypass it. I've seen enough of those "TECHY" people.

 

[LZ-129]

my experience, hardware is very easy to design and very consistent if designed right. It's the software. Now a days when people write programs, they use 3rd party function blocks to save work and get fast turn around time. I really think a lot of problems are created accidentally from that.

It is strange to talk about this in a scientific and high tech forum. Are we really better off with all the high tech gadgets in our lives? I was an EE and manager of EE for 30yrs before I retired. Even though my specialties is analog & RF. I had my share of designing hardwares using MPU and I wrote assembly programming in my days. I even learned C++ few yrs ago to try to keep up after I retired. I really have to say the new stuffs/applicants, cars etc is NOTHING as good as the older stuffs. Here are some examples.

1) CARS
I have an SUV bought in 2014 new. Never gives me problem other than routine maintenance. It has new stuffs at the time. I made it a point NOT to have self parking, steering assist, auto breaking type of stuff. It works. We bought a 2018 of the same brand, still avoided self parking, steering assist and all the fancy stuffs. BUT the electronics really intermittent. Particular the center council that control the radio and stuffs. Radio station keep changing without touching it, many times the whole thing stop functioning, no camera no nothing. I had to pull the car to the side, stop the engine, then start to reset it. The 2018 was in the dealer for over a month the first 1/2 yr. Still have problem, they couldn't fix it by uploading the latest firmware. I just gave up and live with it.

I so want to get a new SUV as the old one is 10yrs old, but honestly, I can’t find anyone I want to replace my old one. I even looked into EV, but the catching of fire, short driving distance stopped me from buying it. I was looking into the Tesla Model S before, that kind of out the window. I was joking( not that joking) that I am willing to pay $20K to just change the outer shell of my 10yr old SUV to the latest model yr and keep everything inside, engine, electronics and all.

2) All-In-One printer.
We bought a HP All-In-One 25yrs ago, it was like $800 at the time, the ink was expensive also. But it’s fast, simple, you align the graphics, it’s very consistent. You literally can write instructions to print anywhere on the paper, any size paper and it is consistent. 7yrs ago, it broke down. I started shopping, things are a lot cheap, could do more on spec. So I bought a new one for like $300(Not cheap by any standard compare to some less than $100). I junked the old HP. THAT WAS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE I MADE.

If I knew all this, I WOULD PAY EVEN $300 TO FIX THE OLD HP AND NEVER BUY A NEWER ONE. We have since gone through more than 7 or 8, right now I have as Brother and an Epson that barely work. Gone through at least 4 Canon, one I got a replacement for free under warranty and it failed. They are inconsistent, my wife does a lot of arts and crafts, she need to print on different size paper. ALL THE NEWER ONES ARE SO INCONSISTENT. She can find a way to do it, write down the steps, THEY CHANGED LATER MAYBE FROM SOFTWARE UPDATES OR WHATEVER. They are slow, asking all sort of stupid question and still not doing the job. Then they break down. Right now, I have two upstairs barely working, one in garage to be brought to recycle. I am shopping for another one again.

3) We had an old cloths washer that lasted over 30yrs, everything is manual. When we moved, we bought a newer and better one. Just few days ago, it got confused and ran extra cycles of something, took over 2hrs instead of normal 1hr 2mins. I am more worry it might ruin the cloths as it kept running cycles of something. This is only 4yrs old!!!

4) Anyone worry about your info in smart phone?
I don’t put anything important in my phone. No auto pay, not bank info, not even my important email account. You lose you phone, you lose your life!!! Anyone heard about gangs from Venezuela team up with hackers, the gang rob the phones, bring back right away to the hackers and they hack and drain your account before you can even put a freeze on anything. Call me paranoid, I do NOT connect my smart TV to internet, I use tape to tape over the camera and mic of my laptop. Peel it off when I need to do video conference.

I believe all the problems are in the firmware. From my experience, hardware is very easy to design and very consistent if designed right. It's the software. Now a days when people write programs, they use 3rd party function blocks to save work and get fast turn around time. I really think a lot of problems are created accidentally from that.

I respect your opinion and find myself agreeing in some regards.

I’m by no means ‘techy’ nor do I have an educational background in any aspect of science.

I agree with your view that using a third party for programming to get a jump start naturally has issues as your applying a generalised technology to a specific purpose with specific needs. Where my view diverges from yours is that technological innovation much like biological evolution makes mistakes that affects its next step or creates a dead end that isn’t explored further.

Surely with the advent of the printing press that allowed literature to be produced on a mass scale had some observers, quite rightly so, skeptical. However over time the kinks, I’m not well versed in the technology by any means, were worked out and beyond that built upon.

So I totally respect your personal feelings on the subject, as you’ve made clear technology is more and more imposed on our day to day lives, however the nature of the beast of innovation is progress and although the cost of that progress may be dire it shan’t slow the pace. We live in an age of instant gratification and that demand fuels the industry which will not only cater to that need but find ways to manipulate our need and accelerate our collective hunger.

 

[harborsparrow]

I despise the new "tech" that is in cars. In my old Toyota Camry, I could do everything with the radio and the heat by feel, because there were only knobs and buttons. Also, nothing in it can be used to trace my whereabouts except, possibly, for the cell phone in my pocket. But our 2015 Honda FIT? You have to LOOK to do things with the console; it's much more dangerous to tinker with the radio while driving, if not impossible to do certain things without actually pulling over. Also, it's keyless entry is hackable, so we have to keep it's keys in Faraday boxes for safety. Worst of all, if we don't drive for 3 weeks, the battery starts to run down because all the automatic gadgets slowly suck its power down--this is a problem that simply doesn't occur in the 20-year old Toyota, which can sit undriver for 2 months with no effect on the battery at all.

The last time we had to upgrade our Bosch dishwasher, it took us two scientist types 30 minutes of cursing and reading a manual to figure out how to run it. Should. Not. Happen.

The fancy feature in my washer that's supposed to save water also means the clothes don't get clean, so I tend to run it in the old water-use mode. The washer's safety mechanism sometimes won't allow me to open the washer for minutes after it completes a cycle. In the worst case, the washer controls go crazy, and we have to disconnect the washer from the grid (complete reboot) to make it sane again. This is annoying, since the plug behind the washer is not reachable, so it means a trip to the basement to throw the breaker.

That said, I have a lot of smarthome technology (lights, cameras, blind tilts) that I love despite their occasional hassles. So I would say it's a mixed bag. I really don't need my dishwasher, washer or car to be "smart" but sadly, it's becoming impossible to find new ones that are not.