Are Conventional Turkey Thawing Instructions Backwards?

[NTL2009]

This has bugged me for years. The Butterball Turkey site has instructions for thawing a frozen turkey in water. I've done this before, and my experience does not match their description. They say:

https://www.butterball.com/products/whole-turkey/frozen

To thaw more quickly, place unopened turkey breast down in sink filled with cold tap water. Allow 30 minutes per pound. Change water every 30 minutes to keep surface of turkey cold.

A frozen turkey is going to be around 0 degrees F (typical home freezer). Tap water temperature varies, but probably ~ 60 F in much of the US. The turkey cools the water down. In the early stages, ice can form on the turkey, insulating it from the water, and keeping the turkey surface below freezing. How can adding more 60 F tap water "keep the surface of the turkey cold"? I've found I had to change the water because the water was too cold, so defrosting was going too slow.

It really seems to me their reasoning is backwards, you change the water (which has been cooled by the turkey) to warm the turkey, so it defrosts. When I've done this, I monitor the temperature of the water, if a 20# turkey is going to take 10 hours, I don't want it sitting in 60F water, I want that water at 40F or less to slow bacterial growth.

Thoughts?

 

[DaveC426913]

Why do you out assume that everyone else thinks "cold water" means 60F? Especially when you yourself think it's 40F?

 

[Astronuc]

The USDA recommends thawing your turkey in the refrigerator. This is the safest method because the turkey will thaw at a consistent, safe temperature. This method takes some time, so allow one day for each 4 - 5 pounds of weight. If your turkey weighs 16 pounds, it will take about four days to thaw.

https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2016/11/18/how-safely-thaw-turkey

The three safe ways to defrost a turkey: in the refrigerator, in cold water, and in a microwave oven.

We use the refrigerator method.

I heard some use brine, or some kind a seasoning. Some smoke a turkey.

As for bacteria, ostensibly one will cook the turkey at sufficient high temperature to kill the bacteria.
With respect to cooking

If your turkey is still icy on Thanksgiving morning, don’t panic! It is perfectly safe to cook a turkey from the frozen state; it will just take longer to cook. A solidly frozen turkey will take at least 50 percent longer to cook than a thawed turkey. If your turkey is only partially frozen, remember that it will take a bit longer to cook. Use your food thermometer, and when your bird measures 165˚F (74°C) in the innermost part of the thigh, the innermost part of the wing and the thickest part of the breast, it is ready.

 

[russ_watters]

Why do you out assume that everyone else thinks "cold water" means 60F? Especially when you yourself think it's 40F?

Because nobody has a water chiller in their basement next to the water heater.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Because nobody has a water chiller in their basement next to the water heater.

Not yet, anyway.

 

[mcastillo356]

Hi, happy Thanksgiving Day everybody!

L&P. Peace and Love

 

[hmmm27]

Because nobody has a water chiller in their basement next to the water heater.

True, because the chiller is usually in the mains lines. somewhere.

 

[russ_watters]

True, because the chiller is usually in the mains lines. somewhere.

No. Why would they do that?

 

[pinball1970]

Hi, happy Thanksgiving Day everybody!

L&P. Peace and Love

Thought US is Thursday?

 

[jbriggs444]

This has bugged me for years. The Butterball Turkey site has instructions for thawing a frozen turkey in water.

If they had said "to keep the surface of the turkey warm", then people would be tempted to use warm water. That would be a bad thing. So they have to use the technically inaccurate phrasing.

 

[mcastillo356]

Thought US is Thursday?

Isn't?

 

[NTL2009]

Why do you out assume that everyone else thinks "cold water" means 60F? Especially when you yourself think it's 40F?

Because it says "cold tap water". As I said, I think 60F is pretty typical for cold tap water in the US at end of November. My reference to 40F was to keep the turkey cold enough to slow bacterial growth.

If they had said "to keep the surface of the turkey warm", then people would be tempted to use warm water. That would be a bad thing. So they have to use the technically inaccurate phrasing.

Maybe. I sometimes point out to my my wife that many general instructions (especially if health/safety is involved) are written for the lowest common denominator. Like the typical instructions to not thaw something like a steak on the counter - but I show my wife that for the first 30 minutes or so, the surface still has frost on it, it came out at 0F and will take some time to rise to even 32F, let alone get through a phase change and rise to 40F (where bacteria are more active). So I tell her to leave it out for a while, then put it in the fridge in a bag in water (if you need faster defrost - best to take it out a day ahead, and let the 'cold' soak the fridge). Or monitor the water temp - often, the steak will have enough mass to keep the water below 40F, at least for a while. But, you do need to keep on top of it, and not forget, so I think the general instructions are just "don't do that".It is perfectly safe to cook a turkey from the frozen state; it will just take longer to cook. A solidly frozen turkey will take at least 50 percent longer to cook than a thawed turkey.

That's another thing I try to convince my wife to do. I've read several reputable sources that it is just fine to go from frozen. No messing around with thawing it, it goes right into the oven, so no spreading of bacteria around the kitchen or thaw area. They supposedly come out tasting just fine, just as juicy as a thawed turkey. The only downsides are longer cooking time (unattended, so not really a problem for us), and, you need to monitor it so that when it gets thawed by the oven heat, you go in and pull out the bag of 'parts'. These are typically in a plastic bag, so you don't want to cook that!

As far as the bacteria being cooked off - right, but if you refrigerator thaw (I actually use a cooler and monitor it), that's can be 4-5 days. That bacteria might produce toxins, or off flavors? But I guess for the water method (30 minutes per pound, so 12 hours for a 24# turkey). that's not enough time for toxins/off flavors to develop?

Anyhow, thanks for all the replies, and I hope that all that celebrate it have a Happy Thanksgiving this Thursday!

 

[nsaspook]

Thaw the Turkey? Only fresh for me and tenderized.

 

[hutchphd]

And tenderized too...
Just took my turkey out of oven. I always hang my refrigerator-thawed bird from a stepladder in the back yard for poly bag removal, drying and final prep. (Even though I know sterile technique, we had an unfortunate turkey outcome a decade ago: now I am rigid about contamination). Nice 40F morning, so no time issues either way. Gave it a slightly pornographic massage with garlic-rosemary-tangerine-paprika butter and put it in the roasting pan outside: Salted the cavities, put in some rough cut apple onion cloves of garlic and popped it into an awaiting kitchen oven using sterile technique. Now it looks ready for tomorrow's party.
Wish I could share. Happy Thanksgiving

 

[pinball1970]

And tenderized too...
Just took my turkey out of oven. I always hang my refrigerator-thawed bird from a stepladder in the back yard for poly bag removal, drying and final prep. (Even though I know sterile technique, we had an unfortunate turkey outcome a decade ago: now I am rigid about contamination). Nice 40F morning, so no time issues either way. Gave it a slightly pornographic massage with garlic-rosemary-tangerine-paprika butter and put it in the roasting pan outside: Salted the cavities, put in some rough cut apple onion cloves of garlic and popped it into an awaiting kitchen oven using sterile technique. Now it looks ready for tomorrow's party.
Wish I could share. Happy Thanksgiving

We think Christmas is the big celebration but my friend over your side explained how tomorrow is as important as that date.

Happy Thanksgiving guys. Love peace and make sure the Turkey is thawed to recommendations

 

[DaveC426913]

We think Christmas is the big celebration but my friend over your side explained how tomorrow is as important as that date.

Yeah. Watching Planes, Trains and Automobiles I was a bit confused as to why they were so rabid about getting home for Thanksgiving. It didn't make sense until someone 'splained to me how important it is for 'muricans.

 

[NTL2009]

And tenderized too...
Just took my turkey out of oven. I always hang my refrigerator-thawed bird from a stepladder in the back yard for poly bag removal, drying and final prep. (Even though I know sterile technique, we had an unfortunate turkey outcome a decade ago: now I am rigid about contamination). Nice 40F morning, so no time issues either way. Gave it a slightly pornographic massage with garlic-rosemary-tangerine-paprika butter and put it in the roasting pan outside: Salted the cavities, put in some rough cut apple onion cloves of garlic and popped it into an awaiting kitchen oven using sterile technique. Now it looks ready for tomorrow's party.
Wish I could share. Happy Thanksgiving

That's a great idea. I am always worried about cross contamination, and dealing with a big bird is awkward. I also hate the smell of bleach, I'm super-sensitive to it. I've taken to using a phosphoric acid based sanitizer that home-brewers and the food industry use (Star-San), it has no odor/flavor and does not need to be rinsed.

We think Christmas is the big celebration but my friend over your side explained how tomorrow is as important as that date.

Happy Thanksgiving guys. Love peace and make sure the Turkey is thawed to recommendations

Yeah. Watching Planes, Trains and Automobiles I was a bit confused as to why they were so rabid about getting home for Thanksgiving. It didn't make sense until someone 'splained to me how important it is for 'muricans.

Yes, it's a big deal as far as family gathering and food and drink.

What I *love* about it is, there is no tradition of gift giving (other than maybe a token something for the host). That is always stressful for me, and most of the gifts I get I never use - it's such a waste. Let's just eat and drink and have fun!

 

[pinball1970]

Yeah. Watching Planes, Trains and Automobiles I was a bit confused as to why they were so rabid about getting home for Thanksgiving. It didn't make sense until someone 'splained to me how important it is for 'muricans.

A great film. Quite painful watching as an adult now.

 

[pinball1970]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. From your guys over the pond.

 

[Vanadium 50]

That whole episode, Turkeys Away, was one of the best moments of television of that era. Almost at the level of the Mary yler Moore show's Chuckles Bites The Dust.

A little song,
A little dance,
A little seltzer down your pants

 

[BWV]

Dropping the frozen Turkey in a deep fat fryer is a fun way to defrost

 

[BWV]

Fresh Turkey + spatchcock + 3 day dry brine + duck fat under breast skin is way to go

 

[Vanadium 50]

deep fat fryer

I was thinking a dewar of liquid oxygen. Cooks the turkey in a matter of seconds.

 

[hmmm27]

Why is "frozen" an issue ? from a pyrotechnic, not culinary, point of view.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You have ice which flashes to steam. That pushes the hot oil everywhere. Thus us Not Good.

 

[collinsmark]

Why is "frozen" an issue ? from a pyrotechnic, not culinary, point of view.

You have ice which flashes to steam. That pushes the hot oil everywhere. Thus us Not Good.

This reminds me of a job I had when young, where I worked in the fast-food industry, back in the 1980s. We would often play jokes on each other by lobbing an ice cube in the fryer, where the french fries were made. It would cause a small but immediate steam explosion splattering boiling hot oil all over the face and torso of whoever it was working the fryer.

It was dangerous, messy, painful, irresponsible, and if done today, would certainly be a basis for all sorts of lawsuits and disciplinary actions. It was great!

 

[JT Smith]

I did this as a kid but with a very small can of paraffin that I had heated with a butane torch until it caught fire. I spit into it and a flame shot upward about fifteen feet.

 

[OmCheeto]

This has bugged me for years. The Butterball Turkey site has instructions for thawing a frozen turkey in water. I've done this before, and my experience does not match their description. They say:

https://www.butterball.com/products/whole-turkey/frozenA frozen turkey is going to be around 0 degrees F (typical home freezer). Tap water temperature varies, but probably ~ 60 F in much of the US. The turkey cools the water down. In the early stages, ice can form on the turkey, insulating it from the water, and keeping the turkey surface below freezing. How can adding more 60 F tap water "keep the surface of the turkey cold"? I've found I had to change the water because the water was too cold, so defrosting was going too slow.

It really seems to me their reasoning is backwards, you change the water (which has been cooled by the turkey) to warm the turkey, so it defrosts. When I've done this, I monitor the temperature of the water, if a 20# turkey is going to take 10 hours, I don't want it sitting in 60F water, I want that water at 40F or less to slow bacterial growth.

Thoughts?

Change water every 30 minutes to keep surface of turkey cold.

I think 'attempted' clarified wording would have either confused a lot of people, or been too verbose. I'm fairly certain that they meant for us to not change the water more frequently than every 30 minutes.

See what i mean?

 

[pinball1970]

Why is "frozen" an issue ? from a pyrotechnic, not culinary, point of view.

As per vanadium post this is also very dangerous just with liquid water.

If you have an oil fire in a fryer or pan you smother never pour water on it. Same principle, the water heats very quickly expands to steam.

 

[mcastillo356]

Thanks for the video, @pinball1970

 

[NTL2009]

Change water every 30 minutes to keep surface of turkey cold.

I think 'attempted' clarified wording would have either confused a lot of people, or been too verbose. I'm fairly certain that they meant for us to not change the water more frequently than every 30 minutes.

See what i mean?

On one hand, I agree that other wording could cause confusion or be too verbose (or is just 'verbose' verbose enough? :) ) - but no, I don't know what you mean about them implying not to change it more often than 30 minutes?

They could just say - "Change water every 30 minutes to maintain proper thawing conditions". That seems straightforward, and it sidesteps possible confusion (it confused me!) by avoiding the whole temperature reference (just do as we say!), and, one fewer word used.

 

[OmCheeto]

... - but no, I don't know what you mean about them implying not to change it more often than 30 minutes?
...

I rest my case.

 

[NTL2009]

As a follow up - the two 12.5# turkeys were in a cooler in the garage (~ 50~55F) from Sunday noon to Thursday AM. I had a remote thermometer in there, and rotated the birds once a day for more even thawing. The temps stayed right around 35~38F, and I did add a couple ice packs the last day.

Since thawing is somewhat unpredictable, I decided to play it safe and take the birds out a couple hours early to check. They were still frosty inside with a lump of frozen bird-juice in the center. So I soaked them in 60F tap water for two hours, and changed it just once, as I wasn't worried about anything going bad in just two hours. The water got down to ~ 50F in that time. All turned out well.

I really would like to spatchcock the birds, and my wife mentioned that she read that the pros cur the bird up and cook the parts separately. I like that, as you can fit the pieces in the pan better, and pull the white and dark meat out when the reach temperature (which often happens at different times). However, even though we don't bring the bird to the table whole like a Normal Rockwell painting, for some reason my wife doesn't want the bird cut up before cooking. "It's just not how you do it!". Sigh.

Oh, and if our friends outside the US aren't familiar with the Norman Rockwell reference, here it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_from_Want