Are Hamiltonian and Energy Always Equivalent in Classical Mechanics?

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In summary, the bead slides on a rotating circular hoop without friction. The kinetic energy is due to the angular speed and the potential energy is due to the radius of the hoop. The total energy is conserved because the kinetic and potential energies are not velocity dependent.
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deadringer
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We are asked to differentiate between H and E. I think that they are equal in some cirsumstances but am not sure what these are.
 
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  • #2
Start from the definition. How is H(q,p,t) defined?
 
  • #3
I start from the defintion of H, and then plug in that p is the partial derivative of L wrt q dot.
The next stage is a bit iffy. I assume that the Kinetic energy can be assumed to be 1/2 m * ((q dot) squared), where q is the position vector. I argue that any other velocity dependent terms in the total energy should be be attributed to a time dependent potential. Then we get that the partial derivative of T wrt (q dot) is m*(q dot). Therefore H = T + V plus the scalar product of q dot with the partial derivative of V wrt (q dot).

This would indicate that H = E only if V is velocity independent. The only problem is I'm not sure if my assumption of the form of T is correct.

I have another related question.

"A bead of mass m slide without friction under gravity on a massless circular hoop of radius a which is set spinning with angular speed w about a vertical diameter. Show that it H = 1/2 m (a* (theta dot))^2 + Veff and write out Veff."

The bead clearly has two perpendicular velocities; in the plane of the ring (due to theta dot) and perp. to this plane (due to w), as well as the gpe.
We set L = T - V, but I'm unsure whether to consider the kinetic energy due to w as a part of T or V.
According to the (possibly eroneous) definition of T =1/2 m * ((q dot) squared), the w kinetic term should be considered an addition to V, and therefore should be subtracted in the Lagrangian, but obviously if it is considered an addition to T is should be added in L.

We are also asked to "explain why the energy of the bead is not constant". I'm confused about this because even the augmented potential is not velocity dependent, therefore we should get H = E, and the partial derivative of L wrt t is zero, therefore the total derivative of H should be zero, therefore E should be conserved.
 

FAQ: Are Hamiltonian and Energy Always Equivalent in Classical Mechanics?

What is the Hamilton/Energy distinction?

The Hamilton/Energy distinction is a concept in physics that differentiates between the mathematical formalism used to describe the dynamics of a system and the physical quantities that are conserved within that system. In essence, it is a way of understanding the relationship between energy conservation and Hamiltonian mechanics.

Why is the Hamilton/Energy distinction important?

The Hamilton/Energy distinction is important because it allows us to use different mathematical tools to describe the same physical phenomenon. By separating the concept of energy from the mathematical formalism of Hamiltonian mechanics, we can more easily apply these principles to a wider range of systems and make more accurate predictions about their behavior.

How does the Hamilton/Energy distinction relate to classical mechanics?

The Hamilton/Energy distinction is a fundamental concept in classical mechanics, as it helps us understand how energy is conserved in different systems. By using Hamiltonian mechanics, we can accurately calculate the energy of a system and how it changes over time, providing valuable insight into the dynamics of that system.

What are some practical applications of the Hamilton/Energy distinction?

The Hamilton/Energy distinction has many practical applications, such as in celestial mechanics, where it allows us to accurately predict the orbits of planets and other celestial bodies. It is also used in various engineering fields, such as in the design of particle accelerators and other complex systems.

Are there any limitations to the Hamilton/Energy distinction?

While the Hamilton/Energy distinction is a powerful concept in classical mechanics, it does have some limitations. For example, it does not apply to non-conservative systems, which do not conserve energy. Additionally, it does not take into account relativistic effects, which are important in high-speed systems.

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