Are Heroin Overdoses Increasing in Maine Due to Cheaper Prices?

[turbo]

Maine has always been a place where prescription pain-killers are popular with junkies. Home invasions (looking for pain-killers and money) can attest to that. A new wrinkle is that heroin is now cheaper than Oxycodone and Oxycontin. The quality and strength of heroin is not controlled, and can't be trusted to adhere to anywhere near the standards of prescription drugs. I fear that overdose deaths will become more common.

What's one less junkie, some might ask. They are people with addictions, and they may actually be talented and have a lot to offer to our society. We can't just toss them into the ditch.

 

[dipole]

If there's a steady supply available, won't people be less likely to overdose? I would think most overdoses happen when an addict relapses or hasn't had access to their fix, so when they finally do they go overboard and kill themselves.

 

[lisab]

Maine has always been a place where prescription pain-killers are popular with junkies. Home invasions (looking for pain-killers and money) can attest to that. A new wrinkle is that heroin is now cheaper than Oxycodone and Oxycontin. The quality and strength of heroin is not controlled, and can't be trusted to adhere to anywhere near the standards of prescription drugs. I fear that overdose deaths will become more common.

What's one less junkie, some might ask. They are people with addictions, and they may actually be talented and have a lot to offer to our society. We can't just toss them into the ditch.

I agree addicts aren't "disposable people". But, unfortunately, I've known a lot of addicts. Successful treatment *must* start with them, and that is soooooo difficult.

 

[SteamKing]

If there's a steady supply available, won't people be less likely to overdose? I would think most overdoses happen when an addict relapses or hasn't had access to their fix, so when they finally do they go overboard and kill themselves.

If the stuff is cheap, you'll get more people wanting a taste who haven't tried it before. If they don't know what they're doing, or if they are dealing with high purity stuff, the likelihood that an OD will happen increases. And, like PSH and others who relapse into using after being clean, ODs then are likely to occur.

 

[Evo]

I've known way more addicts that died or remained addicts than those that cleaned up. Way more. Very sad that they can't help themselves and many do not want help. They prefer being stoned. Of all of the heroine addicts I've known (heroin was the hard drug of choice when I was in school, so there were quite a few), only one kicked it and stayed clean, the others od'd or wound up in prison.

 

[Enigman]

I agree addicts aren't "disposable people".

Probably not...

 

[Evo]

Probably not...

The difference here is recreational drugs and life destroying drugs like heroin and meth, these people didn't do heroin or meth. Do you know any heroine or meth addicts? I did.

 

[dipole]

If the stuff is cheap, you'll get more people wanting a taste who haven't tried it before. If they don't know what they're doing, or if they are dealing with high purity stuff, the likelihood that an OD will happen increases. And, like PSH and others who relapse into using after being clean, ODs then are likely to occur.

You are claiming the main factor in people not trying herione is the cost? That's probably one of the least significant factors. And besides, if that's really the main reason you aren't using herione, then you're likely to be using crack, meth or some other drug which is cheaper and far worse.

 

[SteamKing]

It's heroin, not herione.

Look, when cocaine was big, it was $100 a gram. When crack came on the scene, a couple of rocks would set you back maybe $10. Which drug do you think became more popular? Which drug would someone in high school be likely to try first?

Yes, drugs follow the same economic laws which apply to every other product. When the price drops, the market expands. Heroin used to be expensive in the 1970s due to a number of factors: limited distribution confined to large cities, some reluctance to handle it, heavy penalties for using and distributing, no domestic source of production, etc. There was also a stigma associated with it, even in the drug community. If you were on H, you were a hard core user, period, and the fact that one could become physically addicted did not help this perception. Now, the perception has changed. If you do H, you're not a bottom feeder like all those meth heads. That's not to say that crack, meth, cocaine, sniffing glue, huffing paint, licking frogs, whatever will completely disappear, but certain drugs will be more glamorous than others at any given time.

Even though drugs like marijuana have recently been legalized in some states like Colorado, the legal weed can cost upwards of $400 an ounce because of the taxes added. A lot of people still purchase weed on the black market in Colorado, where no taxes are collected and the price is a fraction of the legal stuff. Even dope heads know how to stretch a buck.

 

[Enigman]

The difference here is recreational drugs and life destroying drugs like heroin and meth, these people didn't do heroin or meth. Do you know any heroine or meth addicts? I did.

(Mmm... I'm guessing coffee doesn't count, does it? )
The point I was trying to make (clumsily perhaps ...)was addicts shouldn't be seen as disposable- some may just turn out to be good or at least salvageable.
Giving up on them doesn't exactly seem to be according the social morals... or did they change again while I was hibernating?
EDIT: Just saw your previous post (I crossposted it seems) Are you arguing its okay to give up on addicts who use methamphtamines or heroin, in view of the low rehabilitation rate?

 

[lisab]

(Mmm... I'm guessing coffee doesn't count, does it? )
The point I was trying to make (clumsily perhaps ...)was addicts shouldn't be seen as disposable- some may just turn out to be good or at least salvageable.
Giving up on them doesn't exactly seem to be according the social morals... or did they change again while I was hibernating?
EDIT: Just saw your previous post (I crossposted it seems) Are you arguing its okay to give up on addicts who use methamphtamines or heroin, in view of the low rehabilitation rate?

Well, it's a low return on investment, and money is tight. Rather than see my tax dollars spent on rehab, I'd like to see them spent on education. Or infrastructure.

If I were to run for office, that'd be my motto: Fix Pot Holes, Not Pot Heads !

 

[Evo]

Are you arguing its okay to give up on addicts who use methamphtamines or heroin, in view of the low rehabilitation rate?

No, simply stating an observation.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Given the prevalence of heroin use in the US and the difficulty in addicts being able to beat their addiction, perhaps it may be high time to consider harm reduction strategies such as supervised heroin assisted treatment as is now offered in Switzerland, the Netherlands, Germany and in the cities of Vancouver and Montreal in Canada.

From a quote on Wikipedia,

"A German study of long-term heroin addicts demonstrate that diamorphine (the medical term for heroin) was significantly more effective than methadone in keeping patients in treatment and in improving their health and social situation. Many participants were able to find employment, some even started a family after years of homelessness and delinquency".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_reduction#Heroin_maintenance_programmes

(the article also provides citations to the relevant papers).

I can imagine that such medically supervised heorin treatment programs will also likely lead to reductions in ODs as well as limiting the spread of HIV and Hepatitis C (due to reduction in the sharing of needles).

 

[nsaspook]

Growing up an addicted older brother that stole money and heart pain medications from his own grandmother, destroyed any relationship with his children and had to be completely banished from any contact with family until he finally sobered up 30 years later when he almost died has been my personal observation of the horrors of opiate addiction. Sorry to say but it might have been better for all those around him if he OD'd when he was younger because my interaction with him over the years has made me believe that rehab for those not on the edge of death is just not effective.

Maintenance might be a limited option in reducing crimes committed to obtain the drugs but the wasted lives still will sicken the society as a whole.

 

[klimatos]

I'm with Lisab on this. In the best of all possible worlds, with unlimited funds, spending money on hard drug rehab might be a desirable option. In our real world with an abundance of more pressing priorities, I am against it. Given the choice of providing a poor child with education or providing an addict with drugs, I will choose the former every time. In today's economy, unfortunately, we don't seem to be able to do both.

 

[JonDE]

I'm with Lisab on this. In the best of all possible worlds, with unlimited funds, spending money on hard drug rehab might be a desirable option. In our real world with an abundance of more pressing priorities, I am against it. Given the choice of providing a poor child with education or providing an addict with drugs, I will choose the former every time. In today's economy, unfortunately, we don't seem to be able to do both.

I don't know if this is really an answer though. In that I'm not sure that cutting money for rehab would actually save any money.

More than two-thirds of local jail inmates (68%) were found to be dependent on drugs or alcohol or abusing them, according to a 2002 survey of men and women held in local jails.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/dcf/duc.cfm

I would have to imagine that this is higher then the average in the population, although a lot would depend on how the survey was worded. Is paying for them to be in jail cheaper then paying for them to be in rehab?

 

[nitsuj]

It's heroin, not herione.

Look, when cocaine was big, it was $100 a gram. When crack came on the scene, a couple of rocks would set you back maybe $10. Which drug do you think became more popular? Which drug would someone in high school be likely to try first?

Yes, drugs follow the same economic laws which apply to every other product. When the price drops, the market expands. Heroin used to be expensive in the 1970s due to a number of factors: limited distribution confined to large cities, some reluctance to handle it, heavy penalties for using and distributing, no domestic source of production, etc. There was also a stigma associated with it, even in the drug community. If you were on H, you were a hard core user, period, and the fact that one could become physically addicted did not help this perception. Now, the perception has changed. If you do H, you're not a bottom feeder like all those meth heads. That's not to say that crack, meth, cocaine, sniffing glue, huffing paint, licking frogs, whatever will completely disappear, but certain drugs will be more glamorous than others at any given time.

Even though drugs like marijuana have recently been legalized in some states like Colorado, the legal weed can cost upwards of $400 an ounce because of the taxes added. A lot of people still purchase weed on the black market in Colorado, where no taxes are collected and the price is a fraction of the legal stuff. Even dope heads know how to stretch a buck.

This post has the most amount of stereotyping I've ever seen in a single post on this forum, just full of opinionated non-sense.

lol "Even dope heads know how to stretch a buck."

what's your problem with "dope heads"?

 

[nsaspook]

what's your problem with "dope heads"?

Have you every had any interaction with a heroin addict that has a 'Jones' for the drug? The only thing that stops them from mass murder for the drug is the pathetic loss of mental and physical coordination. They are the most pathetic creatures on the planet.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jonesin

 

[nitsuj]

Have you every had any interaction with a heroin addict... They are the most pathetic creatures on the planet.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jonesin

they are, are they.

 

[nitsuj]

The difference here is recreational drugs and life destroying drugs like heroin and meth, these people didn't do heroin or meth. Do you know any heroine or meth addicts? I did.

Didn't know coke was a recreational drug lol

And I'm pretty suspicious of Freud maybe having tried heroin in some form or another.

 

[nitsuj]

Growing up an addicted older brother that stole money and heart pain medications from his own grandmother, destroyed any relationship with his children and had to be completely banished from any contact with family until he finally sobered up 30 years later when he almost died has been my personal observation of the horrors of opiate addiction. Sorry to say but it might have been better for all those around him if he OD'd when he was younger because my interaction with him over the years has made me believe that rehab for those not on the edge of death is just not effective.

Maintenance might be a limited option in reducing crimes committed to obtain the drugs but the wasted lives still will sicken the society as a whole.

I find it odd you cannot segregate the heroin addiction from your own "blood". You understand the "self" is the sum of the person. I totally appreciate if you "hate" heroin and what it can do to a person, I find it sad you throw the baby out with the bath water...especially when it's your own family.

No doubt the experience of being high on heroin and then not...is not something we can empathize with much, but surely you've seen just how powerful the addiction is. I've read that peeps who have been clean for many years still call it "one day at a time". Geezz why don't they just stop eh?

 

[nsaspook]

they are, are they.

It's hard to express the loathing I have for them. They suck the empathy from your soul trying to help them live when they don't care about living.

 

[nsaspook]

I find it odd you cannot segregate the heroin addiction from your own "blood". You understand the "self" is the sum of the person. I totally appreciate if you "hate" heroin and what it can do to a person, I find it sad you throw the baby out with the bath water...especially when it's your own family.

I've have friends stuck on the needle also. Spent time in the golden triangle in the 70s and lost 3 shipmates to overdoses in a weeks time. In my case the 'person' was not my brother while hooked on the drug, he only saw us as a means to get more dope. I don't think that drugs should be banned but let's not be naive about the effects of some drugs like heroin on the person.

 

[SteamKing]

This post has the most amount of stereotyping I've ever seen in a single post on this forum, just full of opinionated non-sense.

lol "Even dope heads know how to stretch a buck."

what's your problem with "dope heads"?

I notice you did not cite any particular problems with my posts or dispute anything specific. You are entitled to your opinions, but I'll stick with the facts.

It's a fact that cocaine powder at one time was a relatively expensive drug and still is. When crack was introduced, it was much cheaper than cocaine powder. There's a reason the movies have yuppie bankers and Wall Street types snorting coke, while the underclasses smoke crack: the Wall Streeters could afford to pay $100 a gram which a street person couldn't afford.

The cartels which produce cocaine do so because the profits they reap are staggering. In 2004, approx. 590 metric tons of cocaine were seized globally, with an estimated street value of almost US $60 billion. It's hard to say what the total global production of cocaine is, but probably for every kilogram seized, one kilogram gets to the consumer. Even with such losses, the cartels are still fabulously wealthy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine

If dope heads stay away from me, I'll stay away from them.

 

[lisab]

I've have friends stuck on the needle also. Spent time in the golden triangle in the 70s and lost 3 shipmates to overdoses in a weeks time. In my case the 'person' was not my brother while hooked on the drug, he only saw us as a means to get more dope. I don't think that drugs should be banned but let's not be naive about the effects of some drugs like heroin on the person.

Hear, hear.

I've had several people close to me go "to the dark side". It's pure hell, and if you're a little smart and a lot lucky, you won't get pulled down into hell with them.

It was really heart-wrenching to witness the toll on the real victims of this tragedy - their kids - as their lives get blown to bits, because daddy is a meth head and their drugged-out mommy committed suicide.

 

[Evo]

I find it odd you cannot segregate the heroin addiction from your own "blood". You understand the "self" is the sum of the person. I totally appreciate if you "hate" heroin and what it can do to a person, I find it sad you throw the baby out with the bath water...especially when it's your own family.

No doubt the experience of being high on heroin and then not...is not something we can empathize with much, but surely you've seen just how powerful the addiction is. I've read that peeps who have been clean for many years still call it "one day at a time". Geezz why don't they just stop eh?

Nitsuj, apparently you do not actually have close friends or family addicted to heroin or meth. Or even know anyone addicted to either. You say "you've read". You are not qualified to post about this, sorry, so please refrain from telling people that have dealt with it how they should feel and act.

 

[mheslep]

Vermont seems to having the worst of the heroin problem, a rampaging "epidemic" there, where a local farmers market has less visitors Saturday morning than the nearby health clinic on free needle day.

Down and Out in Vermont

"the problem, as Chief Michael Schirling said recently, is not confined to Burlington. It is, he said, “in every town, every hamlet, and every back road in Vermont.”
...
There are so many programs. So much assistance. This is a good place to be an addict and a single mom.”

 

[turbo]

Northern New England is experiencing a real problem. Having been a musician for decades, I have seen my share of opiate addicts (occupational hazard). Nothing of this magnitude, though. Heroin is now much cheaper than pills and it's easier to get than the pills.

 

[Chronos]

My daughter was a heroin addict. She told me. I tried to turn her around for years. I failed. She died of an overdose a couple years ago. I will take that to my grave.

 

[Astronuc]

My daughter was a heroin addict. She told me. I tried to turn her around for years. I failed. She died of an overdose a couple years ago. I will take that to my grave.

I'm sorry for your loss and offer my condolences.

 

[Astronuc]

This post has the most amount of stereotyping I've ever seen in a single post on this forum, just full of opinionated non-sense.

lol "Even dope heads know how to stretch a buck."

what's your problem with "dope heads"?

I do have a problem with guys (addicts) who pimp their wives, or parents (addicts) who pimp (sell) their kids, for money to buy drugs.

 

[fras]

Just wanted to share a story of how drug abuse can lead to horrible acts.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/20619030/mum-raped-her-own-children-while-others-watched/

Webb denied committing any rapes, but reportedly told authorities that she used methamphetamines, and would sometimes trade food stamps for the drug.

Someone addicted to a drug is dangerous from what I've seen, and the stories I've heard from other people.

However, will legalizing and regulation help? Like someone mentioned before the street value price will always beat out the market price.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsu...-more-than-black-market-pot-for-now-at-least/

http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/06/voters-make-marijuana-colorados-most-hea

 

[StrayCatalyst]

I've driven a cab in a large city - I was pretty familiar with junkies. They're human, but their addiction becomes the most important thing - it eclipses all else, in all too many cases.

I had people offer me sex, for enough money to buy a rock. I've had people try to rob me for the same amount of money. I've even had junkies who thought they could convince me to help beat up pushers to rob them!

Imprisoning junkies is harsh, and doesn't help in the long term unless there's treatment in addition to incarceration. Treatment can only work if they want to be clean more than they want the next fix - visit an NA meeting in your area and you'll meet many, some of whom have been clean for decades but still go to treatment to stay clean.

No, they aren't disposable people - but the addiction is often a stronger motivator than anything else, so they're people who are sometimes unable to do anything that isn't supporting their addictions. Theft, prostitution, identity theft, welfare fraud, etc - are just ways to have money for the next fix.

 

[nitsuj]

Nitsuj, apparently you do not actually have close friends or family addicted to heroin or meth. so please refrain from telling people that have dealt with it how they should feel and act.

Evo, I didn't even remotely tell anyone how to feel or act. Don't put your made up interpretation on me.

I said more less, I found it odd that just as the addiction over took a person so too the brother only saw the addiction. You're absolutely right, I've had the pleasure of never knowing such an addict. Which is why my comment read the way it did..."I find it odd that..."

Just as I wouldn't place holistic blame on a mentally ill person who is rude in public, I wouldn't attribute all actions of an addict as being made clearly & thoughtfully, they're "ill".

 

[nitsuj]

I do have a problem with guys (addicts) who pimp their wives, or parents (addicts) who pimp (sell) their kids, for money to buy drugs.

Surely it's not specifically that the money is spent on drugs that upsets you, unless you're suggesting it's okay to do that if the money is spent on a telescope or new car.